Well, now that wife and I are considering migration to Manila (which is not the subject of discussion here ) the question arose what will be with my old age insurance entitlement in Taiwan. I mean I had been in the Labor law old age insurance since I started working here in 2004. Wife now thinks all my entitlements would be lost if I do not complete the 15 years payment into the system which normally need to be done.
My own interpretation is that I could get a lump-sum payment when the time comes even if I did not complete the 15 years. A nice website for such things is http://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=n9N84vZDrjw%3D which rather seems to confirm my point of view.
But now the wife says: For foreigners they will only pay if they live with an ARC in Taiwan. Meaning if we were to live in Philippines or Germany or where ever she thinks I will not get any payment. The websites from the Taiwan gov seem to avoid this point.
Question: Any practical experience here? How realistic is it for a foreigner to get something out of the old age insurance system when the time comes?
I am now end of 40ish and married in Taiwan, if that is of relevance.
Well, I guess the question remains open. Now it seems to be more important in Taiwan what a clerk in an office thinks would be the law, than what the law actually says. And if they do not mention ARC/residence in Taiwan I guess a clerk might be tempted to try to avoid payment to the adogah applying for his old age pension. I am just remembering the campaigns where Taiwan asks for more foreign workforce / foreign experts. Making sure they are actually paying the pensions would be a first step in making the island attractive I think.
Late response: Well, I am in the labor law old age insurance system, which was available for a long time for foreigners. However what you talk about seems to be the âotherâ old age insurance which is called National Pension. This is open since 2013 for foreigners married to Taiwan citizens.
According to the English labor law pages like this one (http://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=n9N84vZDrjw%3D) a one-time payment applies if the insured person (labor law!) has less than 15 years contribution to labor law old age insurance. After that a monthly payment would be given.
However there is a German Facebook group where someone however having the public-service (gov clerk) old age insurance and being German does NOT get the monthly old age payment even though he would be eligible for it. Simply because he is a bign⊠I mean ⊠not a Taiwan citizen.
This leads to the conclusion this open breaking of their own laws might also occur for the labor law insurance - as it usually offers less benefits than the public service insurance.
To repeat:
Looks like Taiwan will cheat foreigners eligible for labor law old age insurance into a one - time payment which is much less. Difference can be 96 Euro monthly versus 288 Euro monthly (assuming the foreigner lives til his 80th birthday and then calculating the one-time payment monthly; counting 15 years contribution).
[quote=âbob_honestâ]Late response: Well, I am in the labor law old age insurance system, which was available for a long time for foreigners. However what you talk about seems to be the âotherâ old age insurance which is called National Pension. This is open since 2013 for foreigners married to Taiwan citizens.
According to the English labor law pages like this one (http://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=n9N84vZDrjw%3D) a one-time payment applies if the insured person (labor law!) has less than 15 years contribution to labor law old age insurance. After that a monthly payment would be given.
However there is a German Facebook group where someone however having the public-service (gov clerk) old age insurance and being German does NOT get the monthly old age payment even though he would be eligible for it. Simply because he is a bign⊠I mean ⊠not a Taiwan citizen.
This leads to the conclusion this open breaking of their own laws might also occur for the labor law insurance - as it usually offers less benefits than the public service insurance.
To repeat:
Looks like Taiwan will cheat foreigners eligible for labor law old age insurance into a one - time payment which is much less. Difference can be 96 Euro monthly versus 288 Euro monthly (assuming the foreigner lives til his 80th birthday and then calculating the one-time payment monthly; counting 15 years contribution).
Yes, the Public service pension is governed by a different law and there is no English info to be found or hardly anything meaningful. At least I failed last time I googled. Yet in the German discussion group the logic was like this:
a) Public service pension coverage is stronger than general labor law pension coverage.
b) They kick out foreigners out of the monthly payment.
Conclusion (not valid in a strict sense): The weaker labor law pension administration will kick out foreigners as well.
Wife currently says we will be rich soon anyway, so who cares You know, her business ideas (giggle).
However I will probably get a lawyer on this in case I ever get to stay the 3 more years here I would need for the monthly coverage. Meaning: When I turn 67, which is still quite a while away.
The Germans seemingly gave up so far, but I do not know what the law says regarding the Public Service Pension.
[quote=âbob_honestâ]Yes, the Public service pension is governed by a different law and there is no English info to be found or hardly anything meaningful. At least I failed last time I googled. Yet in the German discussion group the logic was like this:
a) Public service pension coverage is stronger than general labor law pension coverage.
b) They kick out foreigners out of the monthly payment.
Conclusion (not valid in a strict sense): The weaker labor law pension administration will kick out foreigners as well.
Not sure, but it seems likely, doesnât it?[/quote]
Ah wonderful. Germans thinking they have it all figured out
[quote=âhsinhai78â][quote=âbob_honestâ]Yes, the Public service pension is governed by a different law and there is no English info to be found or hardly anything meaningful. At least I failed last time I googled. Yet in the German discussion group the logic was like this:
a) Public service pension coverage is stronger than general labor law pension coverage.
b) They kick out foreigners out of the monthly payment.
Conclusion (not valid in a strict sense): The weaker labor law pension administration will kick out foreigners as well.
Not sure, but it seems likely, doesnât it?[/quote]
Ah wonderful. Germans thinking they have it all figured out
The Labor Pension Act equally applies to foreigns spouses. http://law.moj.gov.tw/eng/LawClass/LawSearchNo.aspx?PC=N0030020&DF=&SNo=7[/quote]
And the Labor Insurance Act (which also has an old age benefit) applies to everyone, married or not. As Iâm not exactly fluent in German, I donât quite understand whatâs happened here. Could you provide more information, Bob?
To be clear, was this a foreigner working directly for the government or just married to a Taiwanese working for the government (or both)? How long did the job(s) last? Which office(s) refused to give monthly payments?
Well, more like Germans worrying, which is also kind of a National sport.
After all, the written word, especially in English, does not count that much in this country. Do not trust me for this, trust Mr. Geerd Hofstede, who is a professor for multi-cultural studies and denotes TWN as a high-context culture. My experience is that clerks do not always follow written law but rather have their own interpretation of it.
Well, I guess I will know when the time comes if I really stay 3 more years here to fulfill the 15.
Does anybody know what happens with regards to retirement pensions if youâve already had 15 years of work experience within the same company (or even with different companies), with labor insurance payments being made during that whole time? I am here on a JFRV, and only about 1-2 years ago did I start to formally contribute to the government pension plan when this became required for foreign spouses. Iâm a long way from reaching retirement age, but it would be nice to know what I can possibly qualify for in the future. At the moment it looks like I will only remain in Taiwan for about one more year, so Iâm not sure if I will qualify for anything.
An update here: I got a Facebook-PM from the gentleman in question who is affected by the âonly one time payment for foreignersâ-ruling I mentioned above. He is 18 years in service as a professor at a Taiwan university and told me he was originally informed he will be treated like a Taiwan national regarding old age pension. Now however he was told by an office secretary of the university he will only get the one-time payment as he lacks ROC citizenship.
Yet another case that shows how important it is to get statements in writing with an official seal from the organisation or government agency issuing the statement. For what itâs worth, that professor might as well naturalise - itâs not like he would miss out on work opportunities in his home country at this point in his life.
) the question arose what will be with my old age insurance entitlement in Taiwan. I mean I had been in the Labor law old age insurance since I started working here in 2004. Wife now thinks all my entitlements would be lost if I do not complete the 15 years payment into the system which normally need to be done.
You know, her business ideas (giggle).