Not This.
Tempo
Genocide minimizationânot cool, sorry.
Guy
Oh, what nonsense. Not sorry
Nobody is minimizing anything. Itâs just reporting that despite the reports of mass graves, no mass graves.
The lack of bodies should be seen as a good thing, considering all the bad that came out of colonialism
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Itâs just that despite the reports of no graves, probable graves (whether mass or merely multiple).
Plus the confirmed graves at other sites, which most people had never heard of even in the cases where they were discovered long ago. (People dying young has always been a thing, but the deaths at residential schools were disproportionate.)
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Not sure if youâre playing around or serious. (Thatâs always an issue with some peopleâŚ) But okay, try this: Many people have claimed that so-called âprimatesâ exist, such as Bigfoot. Yet every single photograph of Bigfoot has turned out to be either a hoax or inconclusive. So much for the existence of primates! If you prefer not to call that a lie of omission, what do you prefer to call it?
Oh btw, I should add in case you didnât hear (which you probably didnât because itâs not nearly as attention-grabbing), thereâs been some controversy between the government and various different groups about whoâs qualified to do the digging and who should pay for it. As a lawyer would say, this is an âactive fileâ.
@tempogain shared an article that linked to 4 investigations that found nothing. Ok, one of those hasnât given up, but still that is 0/4.
Yeah, way ahead of you:
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But obviously, if thereâs a probability (that means likelihood greater than 50%) that a claim will turn out to be true, we must do everything in our power to downplay it in the meantime, plus pretending none of the related evidence exists. Otherwise wokeness will murder us all in our sleep!
0/4 is not greater than 50% 
I think the related evidence is a good reason to investigate. That is not pretending it doesnât exist. Iâll go a step further and say the government owes it to the missing children and their tribes to spend the millions on doing the investigations
What I donât understand is people purting their fingers in their ears or doing mental gymnastics when it is reported that in fact no mass graves have been found.
Sorry to disappoint the narrative, but I for one am happy they havenât found any mass graves. Least of all because of the minor damage it does to âwokenessâ (evidence suggests the woke wonât notice that there are inconveniently no bodies), but in fact because I think it is good that children werenât killed en masse in these places.
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when it is reported that in fact no mass graves have been found confirmed, except for the ones at other sites that have been (as noted in the Wiki article).
Thatâs another facet of spin right there: why choose the words âkilled en masseâ unless you want to characterize the deaths as deliberate mass slaughter rather than mostly neglect? And why characterize it in a way that the people making the claim donât (with very few exceptions) unless you want an easy target to disprove because youâre afraid of the real target? Itâs not a full strawman, just inflation with straw. Subtle but not that subtle. (If you didnât realize you were doing it, that means you need to work on your self awareness.)
I think weâve both made our points. See you in a year or two.
Or maybe I was lying in bed half awake. Youâre reaching pretty hard here, maybe you should reflect on that.
Ok, and if another year later they still havenât found any actual graves, thatâs another thing for you to reflect on 
Iâll try to post back in a year or so. If things havenât changed, Iâm sure it will be all over the NYT, Globe and Mail, and other esteemed papers and I wonât have to rely on rabble rousers like Spiked to get salient facts.
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No you donât. You can instead rely on meticulously researched existing sources such as Volume 4 of the IRSTRC Final Report.
You can also read what some of the best critical journalists have been saying this summer. Here is one example:
Since this article may be paywalled for some, here is the full article for the record here.
Interim report reveals âcommon concernsâ
By: Niigaan Sinclair
Posted: 5:10 PM CDT Friday, Jun. 16, 2023
Last Modified: 5:35 PM CDT Friday, Jun. 16, 2023
Summary
By: Niigaan SinclairPosted: 5:10 PM CDT Friday, Jun. 16, 2023Last Modified: 5:35 PM CDT Friday, Jun. 16, 2023 |
OPINION
Halfway through her mandate, Independent Special Interlocutor for Missing Children and Unmarked Graves and Burial Sites Kimberly Murray promised that her interim report would list some âcommon concernsâ emerging from residential school survivors, Indigenous leaders and researchers struggling to find missing residential school children.
Since the May 2021 discovery of 215 potential unmarked burial sites at the former Kamloops Indian Residential school, more than 4,000 âanomaliesâ suggesting unmarked gravesites have been found by ground penetrating radar at 16 former residential schools.
The search is not as simple as grabbing a shovel and digging, though.
Flags mark where ground-penetrating radar recorded hits of what are believed to be 751 unmarked graves in this cemetery near the grounds of the former Marieval Indian Residential School on the Cowessess First Nation, Sask., in June 2021. (Mark Taylor / The Canadian Press files)
âBarriers and gaps are making search-and-recovery work particularly difficult,â Murray writes, pointing out that Canadaâs legal system is âa confusing, overlapping and sometimes conflicting framework of laws, regulations and policiesâ that inhibit attempts to find missing residential school students.
SACRED RESPONSIBILITY INTERIM REPORT
Murray points to provincial governments as some of the most challenging entities to deal with.
One of the worst culprits is Premier Heather Stefansonâs government, which has not responded to Murrayâs calls in February for access to records and information-sharing.
Murray also identifies 12 other common concerns: access to and the destruction of school records; gaining access to sites; the complexity of ground searches; shortcomings of investigation processes; affirming Indigenous data sovereignty; community responses to media; an increase in the violence of denialism; lack of adequate funding; Indigenous health supports; repatriation of lost children; repatriation of Indigenous land; and, finally, accountability.
Her report makes 48 specific recommendations for change.
Most striking is how all these barriers were first mentioned by the Truth and Reconciliation Commissionâs final report. In fact, Murrayâs report suggests that the TRCâs concerns have grown.
While privacy and access to information laws make research very slow, Murray finds that governments and non-governmental organizations often âhide behindâ policy and roadblock search attempts. For instance, when school attendance records are lost, other means such as Treaty Annuity records could be used, but searchers are denied access.
Murray also points out there is a lack of transparency and information on how to access records among government departments and churches; long delays before access to archives is granted; preposterous fees to access archives and photographs; and a looming deadline, because the Supreme Court has ordered survivor accounts made to the TRC during the independent assessment process â which contains crucial information regarding attendees and violence that was witnessed â will be destroyed on Sept. 19, 2027.
There is also an issue with accessing potential burial sites. âIn some cases, private or corporate landowners are denying survivors and families access to the lands,â Murray states.
Murray identifies that, at minimum, search-and-recovery work is likely to span over a decade but could be faster if Indigenous communities and power brokers worked together.
This is why Indigenous communities must lead data collection and have âdata sovereignty.â
The most alarming barrier to the work of finding lost children at residential schools, though, is the âincrease in the violence of denialismâ which has become âprolific and takes place via email, telephone, social media, op-eds and, at times, through in-person confrontations.â
âMost recently, denialists are attacking the credibility of survivorsâ truths about missing children, unmarked burials, and cemeteries at Indian Residential Schools as sensationalist,â Murray writes.
âThey claim that survivors are lying, exaggerating or misremembering what happened because such atrocities could never have occurred in Canada. They characterize the existence of unmarked burials to be âfake newsâ, despite the fact that these are well documented in Vol. 4 of the TRC Final Report.â
She calls on non-Indigenous peoples to actively work to counter denialism through strategies and work, public education on residential schools and âlegal mechanisms to address denialism, including the implementation of both civil and criminal sanctions.â
As someone who, alongside family members, is regularly harassed, stalked and abused by individuals denying the abuse, violence and genocide that occurred at residential schools, this last call hits home the hardest.
Denialism is a non-Indigenous problem and Indigenous peoples shouldnât bear the weight of teaching denialists basic truth and facts that atrocities occurred in Canada.
Murrayâs most important message in her interim report, though, is that the inhibition, stifling and denial of searches for lost children at residential schools not only denies the findings of the TRC and the Inquiry into Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women and Girls but undermines and breaks international and Canadian law.
This month represents two years since the Canadian government committed to Bill C-15 and the implementation of the 46 articles of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples into Canadian law.
For the integrity of the country, we must find our missing children.
âThis requires new legislation, regulations, policies, and legal and procedural protections,â Murray writes. âWe are accountable to these children, and we must fight for justice for them⌠and work together to bring them home.â
Guy
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We will see. Interesting that there didnât seem to be the same level of granular concern for all potential implications when the lidar findings were being discussed. Iâm interested in the truth of that, and given that is the topic of this thread I think itâs reasonable.
Ok, @afterspivak, that report you posted says:
but so far zero bodies despite some digging, thatâs all.
I donât see how it helps anyone to assume the bodies are there. If there are no human remains at any of the sites investigated so far, that needs to be said. If there are obstacles preventing more investigations, be they governmental or civilian or Indigenous, those need to be acknowledged and removed. That no
To scream denialism and point to present day injustice does nothing of value. I would argue that it is counter productive and strengthens the hand of real denialists (who do exist, sadly) when nothing is found (as has been the case of the invesigated radar sites so far)
Investigate the sites identified by the radar, report the findings however inconvenient or uncomfortable they might be to anyone
Edit: i misspoke, there were 2 individual humans remains found since 2021, I canât recall if the wikipedia summary included that it was at radar sites or if the remains were children, or how they died
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