Half of Chinese speak national language

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

The guoyu-speaking ratio in Taiwan is probably greater than the rest of China.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070307/ap_ … RwN1pPzWQA

[quote]
Half of Chinese speak national language

Wed Mar 7, 8:04 AM ET

BEIJING - More than half of all Chinese surveyed by the Ministry of Education said they can speak to each other in the country’s national language, the state-run Xinhua News Agency reported Wednesday.

Of the half-million people asked, 53 percent said they can communicate effectively in spoken Mandarin, Xinhua reported. In cities, the rate was 66 percent, while in rural areas, it was 45 percent.

All Chinese dialects share the same written language, which has been in use for 3,000 years, but the pronunciation of the identical characters differs from area to area, especially between northern and southern China.

Mandarin is called “putonghua,” or common language, in China and the constitution says the government will promote its use throughout the country, but that minorities have the right to use and develop their own languages.

More younger people understand Mandarin, with about 70 percent of those between the ages of 15 and 29 speaking it, while 31 percent of those between the ages of 60 and 69 said they can speak Mandarin.

The survey was conducted in 31 provinces, autonomous regions and municipalities in China, Xinhua said.[/quote]

2

So the Taiwanese are more Chinese than they think… :laughing:

3

I wonder if it is true, though. The survey asked people if they could speak Mandarin; it didn’t test them. I know where I lived in Sichuan, for many younger people it was a point of pride to speak Mandarin, and they almost seemed ashamed of their native language. So I got students who claimed that Mandarin was their mother tongue, when they had actually first encountered it in school. Others claimed to speak Mandarin well, but could not understand TV shows, which were in putonghua.
I suppose all of them would have claimed on the survey that they could communicate in putonghua; I’m guessing a sizable minority, at least, actually can not.

4

I don’t think “testing” is really realistic; standardizing on an oral/spoken test and then carrying it out on large scale is a much larger scale project. Consider this survey a measure of “how many Chinese THINK they can speak putonghua”… still meaningful.

5

How were the questions even administered? If someone asked them, that seems like a pretty good test right there.

If it was a written survey, chances are even better they were educated in Mandarin to become literate.

It is almost as dumb a question as “Are the people who participate in forumosa fluent in English?”

No point splitting hairs over the issue.

6

[quote=“ac_dropout”]How were the questions even administered? If someone asked them, that seems like a pretty good test right there.

If it was a written survey, chances are even better they were educated in Mandarin to become literate.

[/quote]
Not necessarily. My students (in Sichuan) could all read Chinese. They were all supposed to have been educated in Mandarin - but they were the products of tiny schools in the countryside, thousands of miles from Beijing. Their teachers were supposed to speak Mandarin to them; most did not. Many could not, or could only speak it with a horrendously bad accent. At the university I taught at, the teachers were supposed to teach using putonghua. They didn’t. Students who came from other regions had a hard time for the first few months.
Some of my students could not understand putonghua; they were all literate in Chinese, and graduates of a university that claims to use putonghua as the language of instruction.

7

More accurately, some of your students could not understand putonghua spoken quickly and/or emotionally and/or with some other regional dialect. This is a pretty common phenomenon in all corners of China.

Sichuan really isn’t even a very good measuring point, because Sichuan/Guizhou dialects are similar enough to putonghua that someone from Sichuan speaking slowly enough can be understood outside of Sichuan.

8

I have to agree with cctang, it more of a regional accent issue. It could sound like whole other dialect, but if you have the patience to get use to the intonations, loan words and phrasing. You’ll realise they are trying to speak a pidgin form of Mandarin.

Just like in the deep south of Taiwan there are pidgin form of Mandarin. Not to mention subpar educational infrastructures really helps promote pidgin Mandarin propogation.

Unless you past the official sanctioned PTH oral exam, everyone is a little off the standard.

How in the world are you suppose to watch CCTV without understanding PTH?
How is the CCP suppose to effective brainwash people without them understanding PTH?

And even if you speak with a non-regional urban southern accented PTH, there are still big cultural hurdles.

Here’s a story I like to tell about one of my first trips to the Mainland.

I saw a noodle vendor and he asked me “how many jin of noodles do you want?”
Thinking jin was a local measure word for a bowl I said, “I would like 1 jin”
I should have knew by the look on the owner’s face something was wrong. But he filled my order.
It was the 2nd biggest bowl of soup noodles I ever saw.

I was later informed that jin is the actual unit weight used in my childhood wuxia books. Normally a female eats about 1/8 of a jin and guy eats about 1/4 jin of noodles.

Good thing the exchange rate was favorable at the time. Boy did I look stupid that day…just like those 28 other days in a month.

9

AC. You understand the deep south of Taiwan like you can differentiate your elbow from your a$$hole.

One key part of the ‘Taiwan Miracle’ was that Taiwan was blessed with a very strong educational system (even in the deep south), where coverage was essentially island wide; even if today that kind of education is no longer suitable or relevant (or been watered down, what have you).

There is no ‘lost’ generation, there was no underfunding or lack of funding for rural areas. Everyone got a new well-built gov. school with a gov. funded teacher. The education system was exclusively in Mandarin and focussed on Mainland China. There was no Taiwan specific content and there were also strong prohobitions on speaking dialects.

It has nothing to do with being “Chinese” or not.

10

[quote=“cctang”]The guoyu-speaking ratio in Taiwan is probably greater than the rest of China.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070307/ap_ … RwN1pPzWQA

[quote]
Half of Chinese speak national language

Wed Mar 7, 8:04 AM ET

BEIJING - More than half of all Chinese surveyed by the Ministry of Education said they can speak to each other in the country’s national language, the state-run Xinhua News Agency reported Wednesday.

Of the half-million people asked, 53 percent said they can communicate effectively in spoken Mandarin, Xinhua reported. In cities, the rate was 66 percent, while in rural areas, it was 45 percent.

All Chinese dialects share the same written language, which has been in use for 3,000 years, but the pronunciation of the identical characters differs from area to area, especially between northern and southern China.

Mandarin is called “putonghua,” or common language, in China and the constitution says the government will promote its use throughout the country, but that minorities have the right to use and develop their own languages.
More younger people understand Mandarin, with about 70 percent of those between the ages of 15 and 29 speaking it, while 31 percent of those between the ages of 60 and 69 said they can speak Mandarin.

The survey was conducted in 31 provinces, autonomous regions and municipalities in China, Xinhua said.[/quote][/quote]

1/ what is the relationship between your post and ‘Taiwan politics’ forum?

2/if you can’t understand that speaking the same language don’t mean you are part of the same country, then go back to school.

3/you are shiting on democraty, freedom, Taiwan and every foreigns things, but you are still using this forum?

4/I hate mainland chinese peoples (you are really a good example of why I hate them), but I love Taiwaneses. Could you tell me what’s the problem?

11

Am ignoring the last post as it seems rude and unecessary. I found the OP very informative as we in the West are always led to believe that everyone in China speaks Mandarin. I bet in HK the rate of usability is higher than this, I base this on conversations with restaurant owners, shop keepers and taxi drivers as well as company secretaries so it may not be avild sample but I find most Hongkies can speak and/or understand my dodgy mandarin.

12

Yea, but it’s good for a laugh. :slight_smile: Silly, silly rabbit.

BTW, I love people from mainland :discodance: and Taiwan. I am a lover. :lovestruck:

13

AC. You understand the deep south of Taiwan like you can differentiate your elbow from your a$$hole.

One key part of the ‘Taiwan Miracle’ was that Taiwan was blessed with a very strong educational system (even in the deep south), where coverage was essentially island wide; even if today that kind of education is no longer suitable or relevant (or been watered down, what have you).

There is no ‘lost’ generation, there was no underfunding or lack of funding for rural areas. Everyone got a new well-built gov. school with a gov. funded teacher. The education system was exclusively in Mandarin and focussed on Mainland China. There was no Taiwan specific content and there were also strong prohobitions on speaking dialects.

It has nothing to do with being “Chinese” or not.[/quote]
Will you just get over the South. Name any secondary or university in the South that can rival the education of the top schools in Taipei. Yes all those thousands of students that emmigrate from the South to Taipei for secondary education because the South of Taiwan is full of intellectual stimulation.

14

AC. You understand the deep south of Taiwan like you can differentiate your elbow from your a$$hole.

One key part of the ‘Taiwan Miracle’ was that Taiwan was blessed with a very strong educational system (even in the deep south), where coverage was essentially island wide; even if today that kind of education is no longer suitable or relevant (or been watered down, what have you).

There is no ‘lost’ generation, there was no underfunding or lack of funding for rural areas. Everyone got a new well-built gov. school with a gov. funded teacher. The education system was exclusively in Mandarin and focussed on Mainland China. There was no Taiwan specific content and there were also strong prohobitions on speaking dialects.

It has nothing to do with being “Chinese” or not.[/quote]
Will you just get over the South. Name any secondary or university in the South that can rival the education of the top schools in Taipei. Yes all those thousands of students that emmigrate from the South to Taipei for secondary education because the South of Taiwan is full of intellectual stimulation.[/quote]

When we speak about speaking Mandarin…are we talking about higher education or elementary education? Schools in the south were set-up to deliver good factory workers, and there are some very well known, and formerly well regarded high schools & technical high schools in the south. But, as you say, the best universities are in the North.

Now living in HK. I can say that while vastly improved from 10 or even 5 years ago, on average HKG’ers Mandarin is still very poor and rudimentary (even excluding the accent).

15

doraemon,

Here’s a bit of Chinese wisdom for you, courtesy of cctang: what you say here about me doesn’t reflect upon me, it only reflects upon you. I’m reasonably sure no one reading your posts has gained any more insight or changed their opinions about me, but you are surely making a clear statement about your own intellect and character. The posts that followed yours make that rather clear, I think.

I think you’ve mistaken me for someone that’s interested in diagnosing your problem. But if you insist on an answer… let me propose a few possibilities:

  1. you have a long history of social incompetence which is now manifesting itself in rather disturbing ways,
  2. you have deep rooted emotional issues that should be better pursued with your therapist and/or mommy,
  3. you’re off your medication.
16

[quote=“cctang”]doraemon,

Here’s a bit of Chinese wisdom for you, courtesy of cctang: what you say here about me doesn’t reflect upon me, it only reflects upon you. I’m reasonably sure no one reading your posts has gained any more insight or changed their opinions about me, but you are surely making a clear statement about your own intellect and character. The posts that followed yours make that rather clear, I think.

I think you’ve mistaken me for someone that’s interested in diagnosing your problem. But if you insist on an answer… let me propose a few possibilities:

  1. you have a long history of social incompetence which is now manifesting itself in rather disturbing ways,
  2. you have deep rooted emotional issues that should be better pursued with your therapist and/or mommy,
  3. you’re off your medication.[/quote] :laughing: :notworthy: :bravo:

i find travelling in china’s remoter regions I often have to confirm with people that they are actually speaking PTH to me…it can be really hard to know otherwise…

actually having said that its the same in HK…post handover lots of people will talk to me in mandarin but older people have real trouble keeping Cantonese out of their sentences so you get a kind of mongrelised mix…not uncommon in Taiwan either when you come down to it…

17

"So the Taiwanese are more Chinese than they think…
ego, by the same logic -
the Chinese are less Chinese than they think…

18

More accurately, some of your students could not understand putonghua spoken quickly and/or emotionally and/or with some other regional dialect. This is a pretty common phenomenon in all corners of China.

Sichuan really isn’t even a very good measuring point, because Sichuan/Guizhou dialects are similar enough to putonghua that someone from Sichuan speaking slowly enough can be understood outside of Sichuan.[/quote]
I don’t know. I was living in an extremely remote area, and visited other remote areas in Sichuan - including places where, officially at least, no other foreigner had ever been. I’ve seen their schools, met their teachers. Putonghua didn’t seem to be common their at all.
I’ve also heard that Sichuan dialects are in fact really dialects of Mandarin, and not different enough to be called separate languages.
I don’t think your standard is relevant either, though. As an example, I know Spanish pretty well. If soomeone speaks Portuguese or Italian slowly enough, I can understand these languages as well. At normal speed, I’m lost. At normal speed, my students were lost with putonghua.

19

[quote=“bababa”]I’ve also heard that Sichuan dialects are in fact really dialects of Mandarin, and not different enough to be called separate languages.
I don’t think your standard is relevant either, though. As an example, I know Spanish pretty well. If soomeone speaks Portuguese or Italian slowly enough, I can understand these languages as well. At normal speed, I’m lost. At normal speed, my students were lost with putonghua.[/quote]
I’m not a linguist, but as I understand it, all Chinese “regional languages” (地方言) are in fact dialects of the same language.

I was just pointing out that Sichuan in particular is very similar to putonghua; it just sounds like very heavily accented putonghua. So, even someone from the hills of Sichuan would be able to make themselves understood in Beijing by speaking slowly. Similarly, someone from Beijing can make themselves understood in Sichuan by speaking slowly.

Contrast that to Shanghaiese, Cantonese, Hakka, and Minnan/Taiwanese… which sound nothing like putonghua. Someone speaking to me in the other regional “dialects”… I’ll never understand them (other than a little Shanghai-ese).

20

This is not correct of course, esp. if you consider Mandarin to be this “same language”. Northern Mandarin and Hakka are two of the younger dialects in the family of Chinese languages. Cantonese, Minnan, and Shanghaiese are all much older.

For a clearer picture, please refer to the Chinese language tree below: