Halliburton Vindicated?

Wonder why this has not gotten more attention? Anyone? Turns out Halliburton is NOT making tons of money in Iraq nor is it making tons of money at all.

heritage.org/press/dailybrie … 270C5BB4C1

[quote]So anyway, we were reading the White House Bulletin yesterday (it is an inside-the-Beltway daily news roundup that is not actually affiliated with the White House) when we came across this report: Yesterday, Halliburton’s Kellogg Brown & Root subsidiary reported that it brought in just $4 million in operating income on $1.4 billion in revenue from operations in Iraq. That’s about a 0.3 percent profit margin. To put that in perspective, Microsoft has about a 22 percent profit margin. Even General Motors has a 1.17 percent profit margin. In other words, all those accusations of profiteering were substantially overstated. So far as Iraq is concerned, Halliburton is hardly profiting. So what do you do when the storyline that you’ve been pushing for months is suddenly overturned by inconvenient facts? That’s easy, just do nothing at all. From the Bulletin–

The Washington Post gave it a paragraph in the “Earnings” column on E2 and made no mention of Iraq operations, while the New York Times put it in their “Company News” section on C4, where it noted that “Halliburton’s business in Iraq, which is mired in billing disputes with the federal government, contributed $4 million to operating income.” USA Today gave the story the most prominent coverage, giving it a paragraph above-the-fold in the “Moneyline” column on the front page of the Money section. However, the brief piece credited an overall increase in corporate revenue to “an increase in projects conducted by unit Kellogg Brown & Root for the US Government” and made no mention of the poor return on Halliburton’s Iraq operations. The Wall Street Journal had the most comprehensive reporting, covering Halliburton’s finances and operations in Iraq in depth in an above-the-fold story on A2. On the air, none of the three major network’s evening news programs covered the earnings report. But it’s not like any of the networks had a responsibility to clear the air. After all, they didn’t air any charges against the company anyway, right?[/quote]

one…two…three…four…(counting the seconds to the hysterical rebuttals certain to accompany this post) :taz: :taz: :uhhuh: :uhhuh: :taz: :taz:

I would say that it is a bit early to say they have been vindicated. It is still quite possible that Haliburton has been overcharging and that the poor profit margins are due to bad practice within the unit itself. The profit numbers themselves do not prove or disprove the charges against KBR and through them Haliburton.

Not too hysterical I hope TC :wink:

[quote=“butcher boy”]I would say that it is a bit early to say they have been vindicated. It is still quite possible that Haliburton has been overcharging and that the poor profit margins are due to bad practice within the unit itself. The profit numbers themselves do not prove or disprove the charges against KBR and through them Haliburton.

Not too hysterical I hope TC :wink:[/quote]Nope, not at al BB. Good points.
I disqualify myself from this thread as I have been a contractor to both Halliburton and KBR. Both were/are top notch companies that have earned their reputations for doing the job they are contracted for.
Yep…they get top $$'s. Everybody who see’s their job bids come in knows that. But a heck of a lot of times they are the only one’s who can/will do the job.
Cost/claims review comes with the territory. If the IG has a problem they make it known. Its SOP.

One thing I noticed about the article:

“Halliburton received $2.26 billion in no-bid contracts from the Federal Government for reconstruction in Iraq…despite having a history of price gouging.”

Yet the subsidiary, KBR, did not have $2.26 billion in revenue. Is Halliburton’s revenue from Iraq from more than KBR?

Also, the low profit means low taxes,perhaps. Does KBR need to pay US taxes on the full contract, just on the profits, or not at all?

:laughing:

Why does the mere sight of this thread - by this poster - seem to connote something unspeakable yet eerily familiar, like the very worst connotations of Jim Dickey’s Deliverance?

Uh, isn’t taking the Heritage Foundation’s analysis of Halliburton’s KBR division as vindication a lot like taking Toothless Man’s word that Jon Voight has a ‘purty mouth’? (ok, that’s the John Boorman version)

I mean, we know merely by looking at them what these guys are going to say about Halliburton.

Can you post the financials here so we can see them for ourselves?

SQEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAL LAHK UH PIG!!!

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Flike:

You may not has a purty mouth but I likes the way you says things.

But seriously, has anyone yet proved that Halliburton did anything wrong? This was just posted to show that it has not been making money hand over fist and it was printed in the NY Times, Washington Post et al.

My point is merely to point out that Halliburton could be vindicated.

And expect to hear a lot more about the Heritage Foundation in the next few years.

Why does the mere sight of this thread - by this poster - seem to connote something unspeakable yet eerily familiar, like the very worst connotations of Jim Dickey’s Deliverance?

Uh, isn’t taking the Heritage Foundation’s analysis of Halliburton’s KBR division as vindication a lot like taking Toothless Man’s word that Jon Voight has a ‘purty mouth’? (ok, that’s the John Boorman version)

I mean, we know merely by looking at them what these guys are going to say about Halliburton.

Can you post the financials here so we can see them for ourselves?

SQEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAL LAHK UH PIG!!!

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:[/quote]

Translation = I don’t like this because I don’t want to like it. I can’t say exactly why I don’t like it but its fashionable to not like Haliburton or KBR - even if I have no idea what they do.
To show my dislike I will make a not so vague homosexual reference in my comment on this post. I will also insult a group of people who represent toothless mountain people because I am superior to them.
Now I also want you to do the research and provide me sourced information to support my dis-like of this article.

==------------------------------==
…the mind boggles…

I think they are positioning to rebid.Talking it down before the bidding process gets opened up.

can we get a translation into english here?

Haliburton is a monopoly contractor.

It is unlikely to declare bumper returns from its service contracts. If it were to do so it would place pressure on the administration to open up the bidding process for other contractors to enter the market or/and as a monopoly contractor if the government chooses to maintain its protection it has to position itself as to be able to justify increasing its prices in the next contract. It makes better strategic sense all round to declare a loss or minimal profit conditions.

It might also just be experiencing cash flow problems due to its billing disputes. Transfer pricing would be another issue inside Haliburton to reduce profits inside that sector for the reasons mentioned above.

Or of course, it could be just stuffing up.

This does not exiist. There is no such thiing as this…

[quote=“Fox”]It is unlikely to declare bumper returns from its service contracts. If it were to do so it would place pressure on the administration to open up the bidding process for other contractors to enter the market or/and as a monoploy contractor if the government chooses to maintain its protection it has to position itself as to be able to justify increasing its prices in the next contract. It makes better startegic sense all round to declare a loss or minimal profit conditions.

It might also just be experiencing cash flow problems due to its billing disputes. Transfer pricing would be another issue inside Haliburton to reduce profits inside that sector for the reasons mentioned above.

Or of course, it could be just stuffing up.[/quote]
This makes no sense in any way, shape or form.

It’s basic microeconomics TC.

This from a basic economics text:

industry regulation: Government regulation of an entire industry. The most common industry regulation has been in airline, railroad, trucking, banking, and television broadcasting. The objective of industry regulation is for a regulatory agency to keep a close eye on an industry’s prices and product to ensure that they don’t start a monopoly and take advantage of consumers. Unfortunately more than a few of the regulatory agencies have been prone to work too closely with those they regulate, in large part because regulators move freely between industry and agency. The agency often ends up working for the industry and running what is effectively a legal monopoly that raises prices, prevents competition, and gouges consumers.

If that doesn’t sound like Haliburton, I’ll eat your hat and the horse that you rode in on!

Fox means that Halliburton’s KBR has a no-bid contract to be the sole supplier of certain services to the US military in Iraq.

It’s unclear whether you just do not know about monopoly suppliers, or you have other, relevant input (you didn’t provide it). If you have it, why not spill it?

If you know more, why be obtuse?

Yes, that’s exactly what the strategy would be, it seems to me. In fact, I’m sure this kind of strategy - achieve monopoly power in certain private-public joint endeavors - is one reason Cheney why was hired in the first place (another may be Cheney’s quasi-‘rainmaker’ status, or his ability to garner the public-side contacts necessary to such work).

[quote=“Fox”]It might also just be experiencing cash flow problems due to its billing disputes. Transfer pricing would be another issue inside Haliburton to reduce profits inside that sector for the reasons mentioned above.

Or of course, it could be just stuffing up.[/quote]

Yes, it’s already reported by the WSJ that the billing dispute with the Pentagon has led to cash flow problems. And of course artificially inflated transfer prices would do the trick, but of course there are things like TINA, FAR and DFAR, and CAS regulations. It’s likely the Pentagon’s contract with KBR is cost-plus, and if that’s the case then lots of very famous room exists to jigger prices, and absolutely no incentive exists to hold down costs.

If it’s covered by FAR Part 15 regs then this may allow the CAS standards to be distorted (i.e., transfer prices could, indeed, be inflated in order to jigger KBR’s gross margin, from there to allow a narrow gain to flow to its EBIT). (
I have relevant work experience in this area, although I admit to a certain lack of a life!
)

Please see above; again, if you have knowledge of something different, why be obtuse about it?

The reason this whole thing stinks so badly is that, under Cheney’s direction, Halliburton bought Dresser Industries in 1999, despite the fact that Dresser was then current with an enormous asbestos/silica liability on the books. In 2000 Cheney resigned to become VPOTUS, putting his compensation from Halliburton out of reach. In 2002 it was announced that KBR, through a long-standing contract with the US Army Corps of Engineers, would be the sole supplier of nation-building services in Iraq; further, Halliburton set aside $4.2 billion to fund a plan it hopes will get it through the asbestos/silica settlement. This set-aside is being funded in part by Halliburton stock, but certainly it threatens Halliburton’s current accounts (i.e., assets, including cash) as well.

It seems at least possible that Cheney thought that, as VPOTUS, he could minimize the damage to Halliburton done by Dresser’s liability (deposing Saddam Hussein was a publicly unstated priority for the administration from day one; it’s likely one of the reasons Cheney decided to join Bush - after Danforth didn’t make the cut in 2000 - was because he liked the idea of cleaning up business he left unfinished as Bush 41’s SOD in 1991). To be clear, I am saying it seems possible that Cheney bought Dresser at a price discounted to reflect the asbestos/silica liability and in 2003 saw a way to help both the US war effort and Halliburton (i.e., the opportunity to use taxpayer dollars, through KBR’s increased revenue in a cost-plus pricing contract, as a way to fund Dresser’s liability).

fred smith finds where the Heritage Foundation is defending Halliburton despite KBR’s poor accounting (how could they thus ‘vindicate’ Halliburton?), and it seems to begin to smell a little - maybe.

Halliburton is under Chapter 11 protection now (since July) to reorganize in order to adequately fund its liability set-aside; some analysts say Halliburton’s net worth is in serious jeopardy in the short run. KBR’s accounting system is too FUBAR to pass a government audit, according to the Pentagon. The Pentagon decided to release about $2 billion in disputed compensation (i.e., US taxpayer dollars) to Halliburton anyway. Getting US taxpayer dollars now (as a kind of ‘good faith’ downpayment on compensation for services rendered) will certainly help Halliburton’s cash flow situation in the short run.

In short, the whole thing kinda stinks because (1) it’s not transparent, (2) it’s a classic case of quasi-private company in a huge transaction with the Pentagon at war, and (3) it may be that KBR is providing the assets necessary to fund Halliburton’s liability set-aside illegally. Since KBR’s accounting system is FUBAR, who can know without more transparency?

It’ll also be interesting what comes from Bunny … if the Bush administration even bothers to investigate the circumstances surrounding the Halliburton contracts. However, given how the Republicans operate these days, Ashcroft will probably put her ass in indefinite detention without access to any lawyers for six months or more to cool her heels a bit about making any more accusations.

Where there’s smoke in the Bush administration, there’s usually an awful lot of fire.

More bad news for Halliburton – AP report available at salon.com/news/wire/2004/11/ … index.html

'Nov. 8, 2004 | HOUSTON (AP) – Various investigations into an alleged $180 million bribery scandal in Nigeria involving a Halliburton Co. subsidiary and other companies have indicated that payments may have been made to Nigerian officials, the company said in a regulatory filing.

'“We understand from the ongoing governmental and other investigations that payments may have been made to Nigerian officials,” the Houston-based oil services conglomerate said in a quarterly filing Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

‘Halliburton spokeswoman Wendy Hall said Monday that Halliburton has no concrete knowledge of such payments. “Halliburton’s ongoing investigation has still not found any evidence that supports there were any bribes paid,” she said.’

Right… Halliburton’s “ongoing investigation” probably started and ended at the same golf course where O.J.'s search for the “real killers” continues.

Interesting that these charges against Halliburton keep coming up but to date has anyone ever proved anything against this company? Has it been officially charged with anything? Has that been proved? Has it been fined? or its leaders sentenced to jail? Has anyone anywhere proved that Cheney is directly linked to anything during his Vice Presidency that may have unfairly been used to favor this company?

Second, the numbers are indeed impressive. First 18 million with no proof given, then 60 million with no proof given now 180 million will we see proof this time or will this be more typical media allegations with a retraction printed on some back page. The media has repeatedly questioned Halliburton and its role in Iraq and then despite all this criticism prints the fact that Halliburton is making next to nothing in Iraq because of high security costs on some page 11 if at all. This is a very clear example of media bias and never in any of these articles is the company really given ample room to explain its case. We get a sentence and one that deliberately seems ambiguous but the newspapers fail to mention this is legalese that is standard procedure during investigations. They make it seem like shifty refusal to be honest.

Now, let’s compare what happend with Enron, World Com, Arthur Andersen and Tyco all during Clinton’s watch. In fact, the head of Enron begged Bush for help to which he turned a deaf ear. So Bush does not help the corrupt corporate heads who profited immensely under Clinton and he is not given any credit whatsoever by the media but these Halliburton charges keep appearing and when the evidence piddles out, where is the retraction? Where is the retraction regarding Joseph Wilson’s lies? Where is the retraction regarding the report claiming 100,000 Iraqis have died? Where is the retraction on the looting of the museum that never occured? Where is the retraction on the power and water and disease and deaths and massive refugees and civil war and no transfer of government in Iraq, no constitution, no election in Afghanistan? When has the media every given on mea culpa? When? Where?

I only recall a very short apology by Dan Rather when it was proved that his facts were wrong. I also show no apology when CBS and the NY Times colluded to reveal the story of the missing explosives right before the election. Come on people wake up. Your rights are not being lost under any Patriot Act but your rights to balanced, fair and accurate coverage have long been eroded by commisars in teh press who believe that they know best what and when you should be reading vital information that is crucial to decisions you make about your economic and political leadership.

Asbestos & silica liability, about $4.2 billion-worth, threatens to change the sign of Halliburton’s net worth. This amount has increased since Halliburton bought Dresser.

Halliburton’s CEO becomes VPOTUS.

Halliburton gets a no-bid, single source cost-plus contract, 10 year period, for Iraq. Every incentive exists to run up costs in almost any way possible, since the price to the US taxpayer is simply this cost plus a markup to which the Pentagon has agreed upon in advance.

Halliburton can’t pass a Pentagon audit because KBR’s AIS is too screwed up. Just prior to the close of F04Q3 the Pentagon announces that, despite having spent most of 2004 insisting on an audit before releasing payment, it will release $2 billion to Halliburton anyway (for services rendered).

Congress, a constitutional counterweight to the executive, is dominated by the same political party as the VPOTUS. As part of its duty to check the power of the executive, it could demand an audit of Halliburton before payment is released. No such action is taken; in fact, no GAO audit is currently in the works.

Are you - as a conservative - arguing that a taxpayer’s suspicion is unreasonable here?

:idunno:

Fred, where there’s smoke around the Bush administration, Halliburton, etc. there almost always is a pretty big fire.

Quick note on the explosives – don’t you find it a bit strange how the Bush administration still hasn’t figured out what really happened, how nearly every bit of supporting evidence has been shown to be false (e.g., claims that the 101st “searched” buildings that they said they didn’t search, claims that sattelite photos from the DoD showed trucks taking away explosives that later were shown to be in front of the wrong buildings). It would be nice for the Bush administration to give us a bit of truth once in a while instead of blatant lie after blatant lie. You have to admit, it’s pretty embarrassing to have the Bushies (and all the neocon blogs) offering up the same desperate garbage.

Halliburton’s problem with asbestos came after it bought another company not because the problem was with Halliburton. It is a stupid business decision but that does not mean the company committed an illegal act.

Second, none of your statements or allegations proves anything. Give me some proof. All these have been raised before. Prove that Halliburton was found guilty and how it was sentenced, fined or its exectuives sentenced. Numerous examples exist for Clinton Era companies like Enron, Worldcom, Tyco and others. Surely, you can come up with some proof?

Third, the explosives were a political story. Given the total number of depots in Iraq and the total number of weapons and explosives already destroyed the truth of the matter is that this is a very very small percentage of the total. Thank the media for leading you around by the nose.

Would you also like to argue then that the very existence of smoke is proof of a fire. Glad to hear you finally accept our case for invading Iraq to deal with the wmd problem once and for all.