ray…I have only been here two years but how is Taipei so dangerous? Or how is the crime rate higher? I am sorry if I sound so stupid but I just don’t see it…I haven’t had any problem and yes I drive a scooter.
The spirit of fighting in Taiwan is very unique to the island due to its history as a wild, lawless frontier. Men of all kinds would form “families” based on common surnames, even aborigines could become members of the Lin, Wang, Wu…families despite any blood relation. The system of brotherhoods substituted the centralized Han family village often found in China, but missing from Taiwan. Bound by a blood oath, brothers would be compelled to come to the aid of any brother in trouble and could quickly raise a small army at moments notice. Any brother who did not join was subject to a wide range of penalties including death.
Today, Taiwanese still follow the tradition of fighting with their friends for fear of being disloyal. That is why you rarely see a fight one on one, but, in most cases with a foreigner, ten on one.
Gangsters won’t negatively affect your life if you stay out of their business. In 5 years of living in Taiwan I never had to deal with any.
In traffic, the best thing to do is avoid confrontations. If someone cuts you off, let them go. It won’t affect you five minutes later. As they say, “Choose your battles wisely”. Better a minute late to your destination than a tire iron dent in your skull.
Most people I know who were victims of crime in Taiwan (and I only know a few) pretty much asked for it. There are very few crimes like mugging or even pickpocketing going on in Taipei. Sure it happens, but it is rare compared to the US or the UK.
having lived in the ‘heartland’ of America, I can safely say the spirit of fighting is very much alive, maowang! I have cousins who have shot their father just because he ‘insulted’ their manhood (called the cowards)…so I don’t think this spirit of fighting is unique to Taiwan at all. But I maintain that mature adult males in the 21st century don’t have to prove their manhood by stooping to such levels. I disagree with the poster who said basically said you can get in just as much trouble by backing down as you can by standing up…as corny as it sounds it does take a real man to control his temper and chose his battles.
I’m feeling a "my home country is as, if not more, dangerous than yours/Taiwan, topic coming along…
do it, do it…
I’m just a bit baffled about the use of the word “gangster”. It reminds me of a Hollywood movie about the 1930s in Chicago. This picture comes up on www.webster-dictionary.org for gangster and hits the stereotype dead-on.
You gotta be cool to be a gansta.
Aren’t the people your dealing with just ordinary criminals? Violent and dangerous non the less. Perhaps part of a gang or involved in organized crime?
I bet being call a gangster is quite flattering and projects somewhat of a rough and glorious image. Do the scumbags you’re talking about really deserve this honor?
Or, perhaps, being rather unfamiliar with the local lingo myself, I just don’t know what I’m talking about? :loco:
[quote]Flipping the bird isn’t what I consider as having a temper. It’s merely an extension of showing your personal disgust with someone else’s actions.
[/quote]
Too true!
And Illah wrote
[quote]and ya god damn blacks man, alwyas making me feel unsafe…
and pub fights seem a lot differnet to me… because I’m guessing they start in the pub and end in the pub, not on some last man standing for the rest of your life, trouble may be avoided easier in Taiwan but when it happens… well its on[/quote]
Well…theres no point beating around the bush. I live about two miles from Birmingham. The most notorious gang there at the moment (and the gang that has been around for some time) is exclusively black. If anyone happens to be from the midlands of the UK will have heard of the stupidly named "Burger Bar Boy’s.’
The rival gangs are predominantly black with the odd white bloke in behaving like and pretending to be black.
I suppose what I’m trying to say is that Crime is less “in your face” here in Taiwan. For example, I can walk around the streets at 3am without the fear that I’m going to get my head kicked in by some thug who wants my wallet. Yep, there’s the scooter boy’s with the long knives but the chances of you getting slashed here are less than you receiving a good old beating back in blighty.
It seems here that crime mostly affects criminals and not so much the innocent - let the criminals get on with it. As long as it doesn’t concern me and some gangsters get beaten by other gangsters - so what?
Perhaps burglary is rife here, I don’t know. However, outside my “profession” back in the UK, I know 5 people in 4 years who have been burgled. I’ve now been here four years and I don’t know anyone who’s been burgled. I’ve had my car scratched once here and my motorbike stolen in Kaohsiung which the police, believe it or not, returned.
And pub fights? It only takes some wanker to come in with his chums and start throwing his weight around in your quiet local and “poof!” There’s your pub fight.
The only place I hear about crime, violence. and gangs is on forumosa.
I have to say though that in terms of feeling comfortable, I feel far less so in Hsinchu than I did in Toronto (or anywhere else I have lived). The crime rate is certainly much higher in Toronto but I didn’t have to deal with that on a daily basis. In Hsinchu it’s the ‘chaotic mayhem’ of driving. How many times a day to I almost get clipped by a car when walking? Yesterday walking from our parking to home my wife got backed into by a black car, almost got clipped by some loser in a black mini van, and as we were crossing the side walk two cars went racing through the red light their drivers laughing as they go. This while my wife is carrying our 9 month old daughter. These type of daily events are borderline mundane here in Taiwan but are a constant source of stress. Driving is another issue all together. So while the crime rate may be much lower, I am at much greater risk of ‘bodily harm’ here than I ever was anywhere else. And this can wear you down over time. I just thank God Thailand is only a 3 hour flight away.
What people regard as gansters here are nothing but thugs and hoodlums, who simply go around causing trouble at the behest of whoever pays them. The real gangsters own banks, and big companies - it’s endemic. But they cause no trouble for me. I’ve even drunk with the small-time wanna-be pranksters, and they’re just down-and-outs really. They band together because they’re not actually that hard, and they don’t want to get hurt. Real gangsters don’t do bats and knives, they do asassinations and car accidents.
Taipei’s the safest place I’ve ever been, in terms of crime, but of course riding a motorbike is a much more risky proposal here than in the UK. The total lack of interest in safety that pervades Taiwanese society is my only worry. Whether it be road safety, electrical safety, building safety, fire safety, whatever, it’s a worry that nobody here gives a flying fuck. It still disturbs me to have seen the other day in the middle of driving rain in the evening, a man on a scoot with his family and baby children helmet-less in the dark with no lights on. Does everyone here have a death wish ?
No Hexuan, but in my darkest moments I think most people here don’t have what I like to call ‘common sense.’ 
kelake…really? bodily harm? I think if I exercise the common sense most others don’t seem to possess then I am fine…that means when I am on my scooter I have to pay extra attention or when I cross the street but it doesn’t seem to give me that much more stress because I know to expect the unexpected. It’s just a good habit now.
[quote=":newbie:"]I’m feeling a "my home country is as, if not more, dangerous than yours/Taiwan, topic coming along…
do it, do it…[/quote]
We’re doing it, we’re doing it. 
And why not? This is what we live for here at Forumosa - comparing Taiwan to our respective home countries.
Regarding burglaries, they may be much more common than you think.
I’ve heard of several burglaries in and around my neighbourhood in the past six months. But for any meaningful assessment of how ‘dangerous’ it is to live in Taiwan we need to get our hands on some national crime statistics.
Vannyel, Taipei may not be so dangerous if you don’t drive. The bottom line is, people should have right to drive without fear. I have friends they must drive everyday and always worried about what are they gonna do if they get involved into an accident.
The car rage problem can be avoided if the government changed their insurance policy. In Taiwan,must drivers doesn’t have good insurance coverage. When they get involved in an accident, they try to force the other driver to pay for the damage, no matter whose fault it is. Well, the result is the nice guy have to pay for all the damages for the sake of their health. It’s a matter of fairness. I just don’t see that here in many cases.
To be honest, there are so many bad things, scams, ATM cheating, hi-jacking cars (steal your car and asking for ransom), under-ground loans, etc happends here every day and are all affecting many local people’s daily life.
The big different is, in Canada when bad guys start to do certain bad things, the cop and the government will try very hard to stop them. They don’t tolerate them. In here, many bad things once it’s started it will keep on going and going. The government can stop them in weeks (such as the ATM scam) but they let it be there for years. This is of course because the goverment have other priorities. Your daily life for sure is not one of them.
Taiwaness got a lot of culture from Japaness (because it’s occupied by Japan before) and it’s better for foreigners to know more about that kind of culture to avoid problems.
Cops in Taiwan, or at least the ones in Tainan, are practically useless. As noted in another thread, half the people on the streets after midnight are driving drunk and the police never do anything about it. They can’t even find the guy who shot the president - shows you how professional law enforcement is in this country. That’s one thing that makes me feel unsafe - if god forbid I ever get into any altercation with any gangsters or thugs, I’d have virtually no legal recourse. No one would do anything to help me. I suppose it’s just another example of the widespread apathy towards other people in this country. No one in Taiwan cares about the fate of strangers. I’ve seen people hobbling down the streets bleeding from head wounds and I’m the only one who bothers to even ask the guy if he’s OK. I’ve seen boyfriends verbally and physically abuse their girlfriend to tears in the middle of a busy public street, for nearly an hour, and no one steps in to pull the guy off and say, “Hey guy, that’s enough.” That kind of shit wouldn’t be tolerated where I come from. Taiwanese seem to have a nihilistic streak running deep in their society - nobody ever gives a damn about anything. “Mei guanxi, mei-you wenti,” seems to be their philosophy of life.
Other than that, Taiwan is a pretty safe place, with the exception of theft - I’ve been robbed about a half dozen times since I’ve moved here. Violent street crime is extremely rare, practically non-existent. The only barfights I’ve seen have been between Brits (those English boys - just part of their culture, I guess). The racial situation is, as far as violent confrontations are concerned, much more advanced than back home. I mean, if I were back home and the only white guy drinking in some all-black bar in the lower side of Memphis or Little Rock, I’d be sitting with my back to the wall the whole time. Same if I were a black guy drinking in a redneck bar in Lower Bumfuck, AR. I’ve never had a problem with that sort of thing here; I can even hit on “their” women and the local boys don’t have a problem with it, which let’s admit it would ruffle lots of feathers back where most of us come from. And while I do get the “meiguoren!” treatment, somehow getting called that from a 7 year old Chinese kid is less threatening than walking down the street in an all-black neighborhead and having a gang of locals shout out, “Hey, white boy!” Thank god us “foreigners” are still small enough to be merely an amusing novelty and not a sizeable enough population to cause any sort of racial friction. Once we reach the 50/50 point as it is in the American South then we’ll see the sparks really fly. But as is, we’re safe in our very small numbers.
Like a lot of us posting here seem to be, my hometown is one of those drab working-class burgs that only exist so that it can be escaped from. Counting the times I was actually beaten up or threatened or came close to violence back home to the times in Taiwan? Well, in Taiwan, that’s zero. So Taiwan’s a lot safer than home. They have violent dumbass rednecks looking for a fight in Taiwan, too, but since unlike back home I easily outweigh the rednecks here, that’s never been a problem. 
Unless they come at me in numbers, which I understand is the Taiwanese gangsta ‘way’.
Ya … getting hit by a car or scooter doesn’t do the body good. It happens rarely and luckily so far nothing more than a bruise. But its the constant close calls and threat of more that gets to me. Since having a baby the sense of dread I feel in moving about intensifies because I know no one other than myself gives a flying F*** about whether they run her over or not.
mod lang, that’s one scary looking avatar.
Well lelake, as I said I drive and walk all over Taipei and I am not worried about bodily harm. But then again that’s just me.
As for the observations of Ray and Spack (as well as others) I was just thinking if all this crime is everywhere surely Spack wouldn’t have just ‘heard’ about a burglery he would have experienced one. Maybe I am just a lucky fool but I haven’t had any problems with scams, accidents (well except for the one I caused!), or gangsters…what am I doing wrong? BTW…I live in Wanhua, which according to many is loaded with gangsters.
Vannyel, you are indeed a lucky fool. The houses of a friend, a neighbour and two of my students of mine have been burglarized recently and yet, because it hasn’t happened to me personally then I can’t make the observation that burglary appears to be commonplace?
It’s the “I’m all right, Jack” school of thought.
“Nothing has happened to me yet so everything’s just peachy.”
If I believed in god I’d say that he had something special saved up for you, Vanny. It goes something like this. Your flat gets burgled and when you report it to the police, some minor discrepancy in your visa status comes to light and you’re given a week to leave the country. Then, while riding your scooter to work, you get clobbered by a taxi and receive a severe beating, but because your ARC has been cancelled your license is invalid and the accident is deemed to be your fault. You get hauled off to the cop shop where you’re cuffed to a rail and you appear on the evening news like CNN reporter, Paul Clark. Your school fires you, you lose a month’s pay, your girlfriend dumps you and your landlord kicks you out of your flat, so you move into a hostel for your last week before leaving the country and a foreigner steals all your belongings. Yup, that’s how it’s going to happen so don’t say you haven’t had fair warning.
What about Taipei under mayor Chen Shui Bien? Is there anyone who can recollect? Chen Shui Bien had the police follow the law by the book didn’t he?
So Spack you know four people who have had their places burglarized recently and then means it is commonplace? Well let’s see I know at least twenty people who have never had their homes burglarized…
I never said…“Nothing has happened to me yet so everything’s just peachy.” I just said that I don’t believe it is has bad as people here seem to think. If it was, the odds are someone in this building would have been burglarized at least once in the last two years. Just for the record, my old apartment in Richmond, Virginia was burglarized - the day after I moved out.
Now, now Spack, I don’t teach English, I’m gay so I don’t have a girlfriend and if my apartment was burglarized I wouldn’t report it to the police in the first place…remember everyone says they are incompetent so what’s the point?
It’s great to know that many of you feel it’s quite safe here. That’s a good thing. As some of you mentioned that many gansters only taking care of their own business. They won’t bother you as long as you don’t step into their territory and bossing around there.
On the other hand, a lot of Taiwanese shoud somhow learn their manners and learn to respect the law. Because a lot of them just don’t have too much of it. To name a few,
- Pay no respect to female or their wife.
- Force other people to drink a lot, better to get them drunk.
- Doesn’t obey the law while driving
- Hey, you’re way too close to my car. You think so? I can get closer.
- I can drive better after I drink (or drunk).
- I’m kicking my dog, it’s not your business.
- I’m beating my kids, what do you care?
- You’ve left your kids at home along. They’re 7 & 8 and they’re big
enough. - It’s only 8 in the morning and your electric saw is making too much
noise. Do you want me to do the job in the mid-night?
The listing is too long to continue. Let’s save it for yourself to find them out.
God bless Taiwan!
ray…aside from the last on your list…you’ve pretty much described every redneck I’ve ever met and coming from the south (U.S.) that’s quite a few. Trust me.
As for the 8 a.m. thing, well the sun is up and you should be too. The only thing to do is go to bed earlier.