HELP ABC son and saying no to elderly parents moving in

Taiwan Parenting
1

In a nutshell

man- American Born Chinese. Culturally 99% American. Doesn’t speak Mandarin. Only child.

wife- westerner. lived in Taiwan, speaks reads etc decent mandarin. Understands the culture and expectations.

kids. (2)

His parents. moved to usa to study in the 60s ‘emigrating to better place’ etc etc’ Never thought of going back- a bit snobby about ‘Taiwan being primitive’ although acknowledge how much more modern and clean Taipei is. Lots of family in Taiwan.

Issue. Man says his parents expect to move in with himself, wife and kids when they need to. Nothing has been said and he hasn’t talked about it.

Both he and wife have agreed neither set of parents will live with them, BUT as his parents get older (hers are too old to move and will remain far away) they are not coping where they are currently living.

Wife is pressuring husband to make it clear that in no circumstance will living with son and wife be an option and to make arrangements for parents future home. One option is Taiwan. Another a large US city. Another is retirement community Taiwan or USA.

Husband says if he brings up the subject there will be a huge fight, made to feel guilty, that parents are not rational.

Both husband and wife don’t get on with his (and hers- for diff reasons) parents and DO NOT under any circumstance intend to take them in.

Should we talk to them but potentially cause a huge bust up with unforseen consequences (mental health issues in one of his parents) wait for a medical event to happen and move them to somewhere else(less desirable to do it when it’s urgent) or just do nothing.

How can we make these parents accept they aren’t going to get the thing they expect i.e. live with son and wife and wife becomes a slave.

Any tactful ways of doing this?

2

Merry Christmas

I love my old parents and they are in early 80’s and they have lovely home near the beach :sweat_smile: they can’t join me here in Taiwan and it was impossible for me as well and I’m always always worried if typhoon are in the pacific ocean as you know it brings tremendous rain and disaster - Me of course- I’m still working and need to support them financially and possible 1 of my siblings are also helping financially but same situation we are all in other places.

I’m Asian and with Chinese blood: I grew up with my granny and raised to love our parents and respect them no matter what happens.

My parents knows our situation and I will find ways to come back home and take care of them but at this moment I need to work and support them.

For you: If you can afford find a domestic helper to take care your old parents.

3

Idk, in my eyes it kinda horrible they feel this way. Unless there is no way mye or girls parents can stay with us with certain conditions I would never say no. Even my grandfather lived with me and my parents with a private doctor and nurse 24 hour watch before he passed away and built a custom elevator and room for him. Everyone in my family pitched in for the financial costs and took time to take care of him. Same as my grandma before she past away. I get not everyone has the financial means like building a hospital room and stuff. But time is something they can give after all their parents gave most of theirs for them.

I don’t understand how they feel they are slaves. Were their parents not slaves when they had to take care of them as kids?

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thank you for replies.

It’s not as easy as some bland cultural expectation. The parents are very difficult people. This is NOT the same as taking care of a baby or child who has no control over his behavior. My question was not about how you guys bent over backwards to take family members in, but about HOW to say NO way are you living with us but that we will do whatever it takes to make you feel comfortable. There is not only one option - live with kids and make wife who works into a slave.

I think the big issue here, culturally is how some parents manipulate their kids into making them feel that they are bad people if they say YOU WILL NOT LIVE with us. Is it right for a parent to know the kid would be utterly miserable, destroy the kids’ marriage, yet still expect that the kid have the parents live with him and wife.

What about kids putting parents in a place where realistically they will be happier and able to be free and make friends with other elderly people with similar interests.

It’s almost like the Taiwanese obsession with pushing kids to get into Harvard. It’s not about the kid but the pride with other Taiwan families to say ‘my kid got into Harvard’ In some ways that is MORE selfish.

Wife also comes from culture where in the old days with extended family living in the same building it was easy to say granny is on floor above and help her pay bills etc.

But when we’re talking major disruption to kids’ lives I think it’s stupid to insist on some hypothetical ideal situation that isn’t anywhere close to reality and would destroy both the kids’ marriage (remember this is only son of chinese parents and only daughter of similar culture) and severely affect their kids (ie grandkids)

Perhaps it’s time to update cultural expectations.

5

Seems fairly obvious to me.

The husband sits his father and mother down and explains to them that moving in with him and his wife is off the table. No ifs, ands, or buts. Anything else, while subject to financial constraints, is on the table.

Sooner that conversation takes place, the better.

The end.

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Somehow this feels to me as a post that’s only targeted at making people disagree with each other… OP never posted before…

Could be wrong… Just guts feelings…

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A lot of threads stated by brand new users these days. A bit weird…

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Kind of agree. How many ways are there to say this? One, I figure.

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OP, have you considered having them move into a house close by or build an attachment as an in-law house?

My aunt, who is American, built a small house on their property for her parents. Kept them close by but still had privacy of their own house.

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How do you know they expect this? If they’ve already hinted then that was the time to put them right otherwise your silence will be considered acceptance.

If you don’t feel you can raise the issue directly then an option is to invent an imaginary work related move that may happen in the next few years. Make it somewhere cold and inhospitable to the elderly and go from there to discuss their future options.

11

I’ve lived in Taiwan for about a decade now and spent too much time trying to understand cross-cultural differences. OP sounds sincere to me and this is a genuine question and there are cultural differences about how to handle it. I don’t know where OP is now, but even in Taiwan far fewer grandparents are living with their kids (although often they are using “new immigrant” helpers 24/7).

In the States, we would definitely sit down with parents and try to talk through the plans. In Taiwan, I would just leave it amorphous and wait until the hour is at hand. Things may change a lot also–you’ll likely lose one of them, you may have a parent with higher needs than you can provide, etc. If I were going to broach it, I would ask what their friends are doing or share other examples (“my wife’s parents would never want to move in with us–US culture doesn’t usually work this way”). You may be able to work out with your wife a compromise (“we’ll look into homes and helpers in Taiwan/US and go with you if you have questions”).

It is a really hard situation. Hang in there.

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Wouldn’t it have been nice for your parents to say you’re disruptive to their lives and say you’re on your own and not care of you.

I don’t particularly like my father. We have almost no relationship. But he is still my father and I can respect he did the best he could in his own way and did provide for me. He wouldn’t even have To ask if he was in a situation where he couldn’t be on his own. I would insist. I’m not saying I would spend my full time taking care of him. But I wouldn’t trust leaving him completely with someone else’s care. My personal view is that’s just disloyal and even disrespectful. I would feel the same if it’s my girls parents.

I don’t understand how you can view your family as so disruptive that you would not let them live with you if they need. Not even parents, pretty much any family member. I mean there are extremes like if I’m clearly not capable of helping take care of them and it would be harmful to them or to me or others like my kids or wife. Like if they were suicidal or violent. But what are they doing that’s so disruptive?

What cultural differences are you saying would be so harmful for the kids? Like they cook rice and make put on like 5 jackets when it’s a little cold?

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Some folks can be really annoyed and violent indeed. For example my dad aunty. She went to toilet. Apparently there was her stock of heavy liquid. Half an hour later she came out totally drunk with knife yelling you bloodly kiddo.

I could make it to bedroom, locked door and jumped from window.

Is hell, with living with wrong people. Someone who did not do it, has no idea.

Obv is not easy to live with many aging parents. Some are nice and chill, and maybe might mind their own business, but many of them are annoying as fak. Play big bosses, gossip and yea can treat you as slave. Calling you dump, lazy bitch. And you can be happy for days, when they only saying this.

Husband, have to tell em straight, but in chinese way, look guys we are so super bussy making money and down the road huge opportunity waiting for us. Will take care of you and find someone to live with you, who has time, full time to take care of you. You will be fine. No debate, he stands and leave. If you stay, you give them ground to negotiate, you give them opportunity to play victims and abuse you.

He is chinese, but also married to you. I do not know why everyone should adjust to chinese mentality in mixed marriage. I told my wife, am not that big fan of chinese culture and I adjusted to her parents for marriage party for good will, but I am my own man and i will do as please im future. She has to accepted or there is no relation. Can not imagine my mother in law define my schedule every weekend.

I like wider family but also like privacy and freedom of my will. And to be frank most of chinese are too conservative to ever understand this

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Who is the OP. Your attempt to simplify the question and what’s going is really confusing and annoying to read.

Why are you writing this way?

Like what’s the issue with the parents, I don’t understand. I get the couple don’t want to have their parents to move In but that’s it.

So the parents have been living in the US for almost 60 years and somehow they are culturally so different? What?

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Thing is she asked for advice how to tell their decision to parents.

My point is no need to give moral story. Many parents can be just mean. Why someone should take care of em. Parents can be selfish and manipulative.

I really can not get this logic, you have to take care of your folks. And giving bad feeling to people, who refuse to do so.

And yea, probably they are different than born&raised americans. Primary socialization is most important, your personality get base, then sharp in elementary and high school.

I been living abroad, and met many emigrants in different countries, but still got the feeling people charesterics are most define by their kids & teenage years.

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I mean cultural in that the OP was raised/grew up in the US. I did a quick search and in the US 6% of US-born parents live with their kids and 25% of foreign born parents live with their kids. My grandparents were all super independent–in no world would they have chosen to live with their kids. In the US there’s also a different sense of space, autonomy, etc. On the other hand, in Taiwan, it is expected that the children care for their parents and it’s a major responsibility. I always thought the hongbao went one way (parent–>child) but as I live here I’ve learned many people give money to their parents as soon as they begin working and legally there’s even some requirement for support. I think the US children would feel responsible for their parents to help care for them, to help in emergencies, to intercede with medical and other issues, to help manage finances, etc., etc., etc. At the same time, mom and dad can’t just show up and expect to live with you for the next 10, 20, 30 years. I know a friend in her 50s here whose kind of mentally ill mother-in-law has lived with her for 20+ years and is only now in her 70s. Her mother-in-law will have probably lived with her, in good health, for most of her adult life, which in the US would very rarely happen. None of us are talking about cutting off mom and dad but the elder care world is really complicated. I also feel sympathy for the OP’s spouse, who didn’t sign on for this.

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Son: Baba, Mama, you know I want nothing more in this world than for us to live together. There’s just one problem: the second you move in, my wife will move out and take your grandchildren with her, and we’ll never see them again. She even sent my lawyer copies of the evidence she keeps in her safety deposit box of my total incompetence as a parent, in case I ever take her to court to try to get joint custody. Evidence of incompetence and also some unrelated felonies I’ve committed over the years, actually. Oh and btw I also owe money to gangsters who only promised not to blow up the house as long as there are children living here, and they say they aren’t scared of the bad feng shui and the family of ghosts who live here and refuse to leave no matter how much ghost money I offer them, and it’s into the billions now. Oh and btw there’s a meth lab next door and infestations of bedbugs, lice, roaches and probably a few other things. But that’s all just details. I can’t wait for you to move in!

Dad: Okay, fine. We’ll pay off your goddamn gambling debts and get you a new wife, but this time she has to be Chinese!

Just kidding of course. Happy holidays! :slight_smile:

Ps. @tofu2 people are assuming you’re the wife. Is that correct?

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@tofu2

Just my opinion: find a place for them and get domestic helper

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Hi all, OP here

Wow- lots of advice and comments- thank you all.

Clarifiying a few things- yes am the wife and yes I am sincere.

The reasons they can’t live with us are many, from the fact that we have a small house in a rural area in a very cold part of the US- no sidewalks on our streets and no public transportation unless you walk half a mile to an infrequent bus. Snow. Lots of it in the winter. Ice on sidewalks and one if them has already broken a hip.

They would be trapped at home and I work at home and am on the phone for hours a day for my job.

Second- they shout and argue all day with each other. Small house- I work at home - it’s just not possible.

Second- while they provided for my husband obviously as he grew up, they were pretty emotionally abusive with weird expectations that were unrealistic in the usa, and he can’t stand them and even now when they live in another state we see them only once a year or so. They make no effort to have a relationship with their grandkids as they are too self centered, yet expect some hypothetical happy family living together playing the role of ‘normal grandparent.’

There are mental health issues with them too. It’s just not good for the kids to be around this and since they are fairly young (for grandparents) it would have a terrible effect for a long time on our kids.

I don’t need to explain all the reasons why not but have given you an idea of why not.

Look I get that they left Taiwan decades ago and then it was pretty much universal that parents lived with kids. But those were also expectations of someone living in a city, with public transport, and stuff to do for the elderly, and an extended fam to help, and besides that, the expectations aren’t so rock solid now-

there are retirement homes in Taiwan and even in the US there are some that cater to Asian families- NYC/ San Fran.

I know my husband has to tell them at a certain point but we don’t intend to be mean or nasty about it but present them with several reasonable options.

They have made no plans, unlike some of their acquaintances, for their future and are still eking out an existence in a house stuffed with junk in a suburb of a large city.

They have remained very Taiwanese in their expectation and lifestyle, even after decades years in the US which I totally understand but now that expectation cannot be met.

The mom is manipulative, likely to make a huge fuss that will literally go on for years, involve the whole extended fam calling us and trying to make us change our minds etc.

It just can’t happen.

My husband is thinking to say nothing until there is some crisis or medical event or the barely driving parent no longer drives. But then it may br harder to drop everything and sell their house, buy an appt in a city in the usa or taiwan or move them to a retirement place.

We’re particularly afraid of the ‘let us move in temporarily while we look for a place’ No to that too as it would be a trick.

My husband also agrees with me that they can’t live with us, we just need to find a way to tell them in the kindest way by presenting attractive options and let them come to their own conclusion as to which one to pick.

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op here

and so am interested in any suggestions you have in order to have that conversation.

I personally think they’d be happiest in Taipei, eating the foods they grew up eating, seeing members of their family who are all here. Medical care for the elderly- how is it?

They would need a lot of help to move back here and readjust. But we know the extended family would help us.

The other option is they buy an appt in a large US city with decent weather and a decent Asian community and decent medical care. Maybe somewhere in California like San Diego or San Francisco? Or maybe they can spend a few months in Taipei and a few in the US in some big city. They haven’t made any friends in the place they live in now. They are not leaving anyone or anything behind that they would miss.

It has to be their decision once they have accepted living with us isn’t possible but we’re not sure how to tell them this and whether we even should or wait for it to be an emergency and then sort of guide their deciaion more forcefully.