I always liked the Tele Savalas reading.
Oh man, I saw the nail, I came running with my hammer, I had my sights focused on the head, but then…
Chris beat me to it.
But the question is not what you believe, it’s what you believe in. So, you believe in an infinitely large set of prime numbers, but only that they exist, or is there more to it?
These 3 things you quoted suggest that you “believe in” solid facts. You take comfort in them and you hold to them and eschew that which is not provable or likely to be proven. I think a belief and grounding in reality is an admirable thing.
It was not my intent to get into a debate about evolution. I just want to use it to discuss belief.
Actually, I’d say proving evolution didn’t occur would be almost as difficult as proving there is no God. It’s possible to poke holes in theories (hence missing link accusations, geologic time frames, etc.), but to find some sort of object or experiment and say: “look there is no evolution” just can’t really happen.
Now, first, I’ll have to ask which aspect of evolution you’re talking about. Evolution as a process does have overwhelming support. Evolution as the explanation for the current state of life is still quite sketchy.
Either way, how much of this evidence have you actually gathered yourself? How much of it have you confirmed? If you haven’t gathered the evidence and you haven’t confirmed it, why do you believe it? If you are a biologist and have actually made discoveries in a particular field, then it’s obvious why you would believe it. But what about those reports from people in a field you have not actually done any field work in? Why do you just accept their reports or conclusions?
Maybe you do believe in the theory of evolution. Maybe it offers you something. But I think a big part of your believing it is your belief in science.
And that says something about you.
That says something about you, too.
Why do I have to believe IN anything?
Why the grasping for something bigger than yourself? Aren’t you amazing enough? Isn’t the universe amazing enough? Now that we know what makes thunder and rain and earthquakes, why do you still need to believe in the gods that were created by people to explain those ‘mysteries’?
I believe that anything can happen, and usually does.
Really? And see there I thought he believes in evolution because of the overwhelming body of scientific evidence supporting it, the complete lack of any evidence against it, and the fact that it makes sense logically, more sense than any other theory posited. I wonder why I thought that. Oh yeah! Because he said,
I believe in the human need to understand. It’s a force to be reckoned with. After all, how else could a person, who will live for about 1/2000th the age of the species, which has only been around for roughly 1/20000th the age of the planet, which itself floats in a universe of unknown age and size, cope with existing?
I believe this avatar 
makes me want to swat my monitor.
gao_bo_han, you fail to grasp Tai Kwon Leep. Approach the master that you may see…
Seriously, you’re not getting what I’m saying. Look at why you “believe” the things you do and you will find what you “believe in”. I have no trouble reading what Chris wrote. I’m actually trying to look into it and actually address the question “what you believe in” rather than just the superficial and silly “I believe the sky is blue” kind of response.
When someone says, “I believe in democracy,” they aren’t merely saying that they believe in its existence. They believe that it works, that it is beneficial to society, and that it is worthy of support and sacrifice. So, how does “I believe insert observable fact” address the question?
Well, many people will say they belive in God, and thats not an observable fact.
Believing in something doesnt make it fact to others who do not share the same beliefs.
I believe that I exist in real space, and that I can interact with this space according to rules that may or may not be known but are knowable.
I believe that there is no such thing as spirit or soul. I think people who do believe that such things exist are misguided but should generally be left to their own devices as long as they are not hurting anyone. I believe that anyone who uses those nonsensical beliefs to belittle me and “cast me down as a sinner” is just plain wrong, and if they persist, I believe that I have the right to defend myself in any suitable manner. I get to decide what’s suitable, though, not you. What gives you the right to claim a moral superiority over me? Nothing.
I take your point. “Believing in” in the sense you have outlined is pretty analogous to faith, I would say. I am an atheist/agnostic (depending on the definition used for those terms) and I don’t think I can be said to actually believe in anything, at least not in the way you frame it. I don’t have faith in God, or human nature, or democracy, or Chuck Norris. I believe that, on balance and given the right conditions, democracy is a good thing. But I don’t really believe in it, in the faith sense.
Sorry, DB. If it’s really bugging you, I’ll change it. No biggie.
Well I’m so glad I have you around to help me out.
Oh I disagree. You are having trouble. He did not simply say “I believe in evolution.” He said:
And you give a comparable example:
Chris’ explanation was just about as detailed as the democracy example; i.e., he explains the basis of his belief rather than merely stating his belief.
You only disagree because you don’t understand. 
Not very comparable, actually. One is a list of evidence establishing the soundness of a proposition in inductive reasoning, while the other is the championing of a cause for specific reasons.
Belief != belief in.
You’re still not getting it. “believe in” can mean believe in the existence of something, or the truthfulness of a proposition. It also means what you support. I hesitate to use " have faith in" because it also has a dual meaning, but when you say you have faith in a person or thing it is more than just merely believing they exist. “Believe in” has that same sense to it.
Do you believe in the KMT? The DPP? They clearly both exist. But do you believe in them?
Yes, Chris gave sufficient detail to explain his acceptance of the proposition of the theory of evolution. But that’s an empty answer unless it leads to an understanding of what he “believes in”, not just in the sense of “believes to exist”. What does believing in the existence of the cat I see, or a cat I think exists because there’s a cat-like shadow mean? Not much except I trust my senses. It would mean something else if I would put my life in the hands of a random cat.
Now, I’m not saying he doesn’t actually believe in evolution in the same way another believes in a cause or what have you. He very well may. But most likely he just believes it is true, and he believes it is true because of something else more substantial that he actually has faith in-- believes in. And that would most likely be science.
I’m trying to look more deeply at belief and what people believe in-- exclusive of religion. What are you trying to do?
Right. That’s what I’m saying. But why not have faith in Chuck Norris? I think faith in Mr. T would be misplaced. Chuck’s definitely the man.
Anyway, are you sure that there isn’t something you believe in? I suspect almost everyone believes in something. How about reason? Or self-sufficiency? Independent thought? True love?
Perhaps think of decisions you have made and try to work back to why you made them. This could lead to what you believe in.
No, no – not a problem
Your first question is an excellent one. But nobody is saying anything about “gods”. This thread is specifically about what you believe in if you don’t believe in God.
And why should you have to be amazed? Can’t you just walk through life and think nothing is amazing? It just is. Cool, amazing, pimped. All are relative.
I think most people really believe in something, but then, is there an advantage to believing in something as opposed to believing in nothing? Cartoons and epic novels would have you believe there is, but is that really the case?
Excellent question.
“What, you don’t believe in England? You think it’s a conspiracy of cartographers, then!”
- paraphrase from Tom Stoppard’s Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead.
I believe in the children, man. I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky. da, da, da, da, da, da, I believe I can fly.
Someone needs to get laid, I believe.
Well, from your previous comments, i did think you were aking about why i did not believe IN God, and asked what i replaced that God with. for many people, God is responsible for the ‘amazing’ universe as there is no way they can conceive how something larger than them came about, other than by invoking some kind of Divine intervention. I was saying that if you want that ‘amazing’ feeling, you can get it from simply contemplating the complexities of your self. I am not in a constant state of amazement, though I am forever learning more of the intricacies of life at all levels from the quantum to the ecological. Life just is, but while it ‘is’, its ‘isness’ is pretty cool, as is its complexity.
let me repeat, I don’t feel the need to believe IN anything. I am quite self sufficient, thank you. I believe that things are, and that’s it. I believe that some policies and ideologies are better than others, but I don’t believe IN them. I believe that reality is, but I don’t believe IN reality. Some would say that this is simply semantics, but I would beg to differ: I think it is the crux of the matter (if you’ll pardon the reference to the cross and all that that entails:-). I think there is a deep schism here between the mind of those who crave belief and those who don’t, which can not be fully appreciated by Those who Need to Believe IN Something.
free your mind of the shackles of necessity, and you shall reach enlightenment, oh grasshopper.