Hey Christians (or other theists) -What do you believe in?

Arts & Sciences Religion & Spirituality
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This thread is intended to be the evil twin to this thread, which is about what non-theists believe in. Several times the godless skeptics haunting that thread tried to turn things around on the theists and demand they expose their own beliefs, but the theists held firm, refusing to let them derail the thread. Fair enough. So let this be the thread where theists and believers in non-theistic religions can explain what they believe in and why.

We non-theists are accustomed to having our beliefs or lack thereof dissected, analyzed, and criticized by theists, so I think it’s high time you theists come forward and see if you can take what you can dish out. Be sure to be as specific as possible, that way it’s easier to ridicule…I mean, politely discuss your beliefs in a non-threatening environment. :smiling_imp:

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The being hostile, the pity, or my quote above? Sorry, don’t know how to respond.
If it’s the hostility or the pity, I agree.

Actually, most Buddhists I’ve talked to believe in a god or a creator. Most I’ve talked to are polytheists. They just don’t believe that following any god is the best path to escaping the cycle of pain and suffering followed by rebirth that is life.

But let’s assume you mean a Buddhist who rejects the idea of any creator god and believes all existence (which is actually an illusion) is the result of karmic forces of cause and effect and that no god-like being exists and there is only Buddha-essence.

In that case, I’d say their atheism probably doesn’t impact them much at all, while their Buddhism plays a strong and important role in their life. Their atheism is separate from their Buddhism.

It’s like saying there’s an atheist who has a philosophy on life. Does his philosophy help him? Depends on how good of a philosophy it is, but probably yes. But I don’t think the atheism plays any significant part. Just the nature of the belief.

It’s fundamentally different from a theistic belief where the belief in the deity has consequences in decision making. You can argue that some theistic beliefs are harmful, while others are helpful. But I it plays a role in life. I don’t see how atheism (without combination with some other form of philosophy) has the same effect.

That’s what I mean.

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I believe there’s a Bible. And I believe there are people who believe in God.

And I believe there are 4 sides to a rectangular church.

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do you believe that atheism is not true?

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Well this is Taiwan, Taoism is more popular than Buddhism. But to quote from wiki “What is deemed as creation of the universe by an all-powerful creator deity in many other religions is not accepted by any school of Buddhism.”

Maybe I misunderstand, but did you say Buddhists think existence is an illusion?

[quote]In that case, I’d say their atheism probably doesn’t impact them much at all, while their Buddhism plays a strong and important role in their life. Their atheism is separate from their Buddhism.

It’s like saying there’s an atheist who has a philosophy on life. Does his philosophy help him? Depends on how good of a philosophy it is, but probably yes. But I don’t think the atheism plays any significant part. Just the nature of the belief.
[/quote]

I’m not sure if this is a shift of your position, because it really did sound like you were saying (or alluding to ) a belief of atheism is an existence without belief “in” anything.

[quote]It’s fundamentally different from a theistic belief where the belief in the deity has consequences in decision making. You can argue that some theistic beliefs are harmful, while others are helpful. But I it plays a role in life. I don’t see how atheism (without combination with some other form of philosophy) has the same effect.
[/quote]

I think its much worse. I don’t know how it is for your religion, but for many Christians, they go to church once a week , go to confession and for the rest of the time quite often are despicable people, but their belief in Jesus will save them. Karmic consequences are for every action, and if you believe, will have an effect on your next life.

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I was not aware that churches came in the two dimensional variety. Or did you mean a cuboid church? Which has more than 4 sides by the way. Or did you mean walls?

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You guys are off to a good start.

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I’ll try to keep the spirit of this thread alive!

Dear Theists,

  1. I’ve heard some of you don’t believe in hell. Has hell been replaced with something? Do good people go to heaven and do bad people just stop existing?

  2. What happens to non-christians when they die? How about lapsed christians, i.e. those who have consciously rejected the bible and its teachings?

  3. Why did you choose the particular denomination of christianity that you currently endorse? just because you were born into it? Or some other reason?

  4. Do you get pissed off when you are forced into / pressured into / (insert your verb here) into participating in Taiwanese religious practices?

Thanks,

lurkky

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I don’t understand the question. Atheism is disbelief in a god. Surely everyone recognizes that disbelief exists.

[quote=“lurkky”]1. I’ve heard some of you don’t believe in hell. Has hell been replaced with something? Do good people go to heaven and do bad people just stop existing?

  1. What happens to non-christians when they die? How about lapsed christians, i.e. those who have consciously rejected the bible and its teachings?

  2. Why did you choose the particular denomination of Christianity that you currently endorse? just because you were born into it? Or some other reason?

  3. Do you get pissed off when you are forced into / pressured into / (insert your verb here) into participating in Taiwanese religious practices?[/quote]

  4. Hell, like any other aspect of religion, is open to interpretation - by the religion, by the denomination, by the church, by the individual. I view it as a separation of self from God. Others prefer the more traditional fire-and-brimstone depiction.

  5. No one knows for sure - religion is based on faith, not science. I believe that they will be sorry that they’ve rejected God.

  6. It’s the path to God that I know best. I’m sure there are others, and I don’t know that my way is the best way but it’s the way I know. I distanced myself from the church and religion for a while because I saw hypocrisy and inconsistency. I came back because I realize that all human endeavours, faith included, have hypocrisy and inconsistency. In the end, the positive elements I saw in my church upbringing outweighed the negative elements.

  7. Hasn’t happened yet. I doubt it’ll ever happen.

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[quote]Has hell been replaced with something? [/quote]Yes. It’s called living for most people on earth.

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Thanks, Maoman.

That’s an interesting take on it. I’ll admit that #1 is the question I’d most like to hear answered.

As an atheist, I feel I already have a separation of self from god. But I’m still alive. So unless hell is already here on earth, it wouldn’t be that much worse for me to be sent there. However, I can see how it would be saddening for a christian to feel separated from god.

Maybe I can expand question #1 to include,

1a. Do you believe that non-christians and lapsed christians deserve to be punished after they die? (Even if you don’t believe in a traditional fire and brimstone hell?)

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Oh, sorry, lurkky has another question for theists:

  1. Do you believe pornography is a sin? Or is it just a small temptation that you can indulge in, confess to, and then later indulge in again? I ask because I have theist and non-theist feminist friends who tell me it’s rape, or as bad as rape, or at the very least, extremely wrong. (I guess they are mostly talking about the kind where real people are filmed having sex, as opposed to purely literary attempts.)
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See, that’s the thing. As I understand it, you get reborn, but you can’t remember your previous life. It’s like your consciousness has an RFID chip inserted into it, and then each time you’re reborn, I guess the buddha knows that you used to be a dude before you were a tree, but you don’t know, so … it seems like a moot point.

Maybe a tree with a human consciousness wouldn’t necessarily be insane, but just be like a sentient computer.

Or maybe you’d be like an Ent. :smiley:

Am I off topic yet? Sorry.

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I was not aware that churches came in the two dimensional variety. Or did you mean a cuboid church? Which has more than 4 sides by the way. Or did you mean walls?[/quote]
It’s a church for people with little personality and no character development.

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In the sense that it doesn’t exist or that its belief is wrong? (Maoman answered first)

I believe the central belief of atheism is incorrect.

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You are correct that some theists don’t believe in hell. Others believe in a literal hell. Many more believe in a figurative hell. Some others believe hell is actually a misunderstood concept and that it refers not to suffering, but rather to cessation of existence (the way you asked).

Keep in mind that hell is not a strictly Christian idea. Many other religions believe in a hell concept and their concept of hell differs from the orthodox Christian one.

My own beliefs include a literal (but not fire and brimstone) hell, but that a person only suffers in hell in accordance to their crime, not for an infinite period of time. Hell itself, however, does last for an infinite period of time. It’s an eternal concept.

Depends on the theist.

For example, Buddhists think you’ll eventually get reincarnated (if you didn’t figure out how to pierce the illusion of life). If you performed good acts you might get lucky and be reincarnated as a Buddhist. (Technically, it’s not really lucky, it’s a consequence of the summation of the effects of your actions.)

For some Christians, both groups go to hell. Do not pass go, and if someone burns you $200, they go to hell, too. Others think only the first group goes to hell, while the second group will still be saved because they confessed belief in Jesus. He’ll just be disappointed in them or something.

There’s an increasing number of sects that believe non-believers who would have believed if approached in the right spirit (rabid Bible-thumpers screaming “convert now or fall forever, Riddick!” wouldn’t count) are counted as having believed. Luckily, God knows who you are.

Me, I believe we all go to heaven. Yep. Everyone. Unless you are one of the ultra-rare people who decide you don’t want to go to heaven. You want everyone to suffer eternally. SUFFER! Then you get what you really want. But, if you did bad and the penalty hasn’t been paid yet, you gotta pay the penalty before you get to go to heaven. Oh, heaven is custom tailored to whatever will make you the happiest in eternity. For most people, that does not include living in the presence of God. It would give you a constant inferiority complex. So you go to a heaven where you don’t get direct contact with God.

I chose it after I was born into it. I chose it because I know it’s true.

I don’t get pressured into participating in Taiwanese religious practices. I refuse on religious grounds.

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May I ask what sort of reasoning leads you to these quite detailed conclusions. I’m not asking for evidence, for example, I can say I believe intelligent life is not unique to this planet in fact the Universe may be swarming with intelligent life. I can’t prove this, but can say, through deductive reasoning, the number of stars in the universe is thought to be more than the gains of sand on the planet, and planets are thought not to be uncommon for stars and the elements that are required for life are abundant in the universe. How do you decide what god is or isn’t, that there isn’t just a heaven and hell as other groups do, or that you would have a consciousness similar to the one you have now?

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It’s not based on reasoning. It’s based on revelation. The belief in the revelation follows from my faith in God and my particular church.

God told someone this. They wrote it down. I read it. I tried to understand it. I prayed about it. I gained an understanding. I believed as a consequence of believing other things.

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RDO, how can you explain this passage from Matt.7?

That makes it abundantly clear that not everyone’s going heaven.

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Well this is Taiwan, Taoism is more popular than Buddhism. But to quote from wiki “What is deemed as creation of the universe by an all-powerful creator deity in many other religions is not accepted by any school of Buddhism.”[/quote]The wiki thing is correct. I’m sure some people who call themselves Buddhists do believe in a creator God. But that’s not a Buddhist view. It doesn’t fit with any orthodox school of Buddhist philosophy.[/quote]
I understand that. The devas (as gods are referred to in Buddhist terminology) are not part of Buddhism’s teachings on life. However, belief in gods (but not God) is compatible with Buddhist teaching. Devas are just exalted forms that are still subject to samsara and they will eventually die and be reborn.

Please note that I did not say creationist. Only theist. The distinction here is important.

And please forgive me if I get something wrong. I have studied Buddhism, but not nearly as long as many others have.