High school options for non-millionaire expats?

Taiwan Parenting
21

For the average hippie or the lost cause foreigner who will never leave this hell on Earth, it may seem a bit racisit that I would recommend that TAS (Taipei Asian School) only allow admittance to “real” foriegners. But as you read on you will see that I do not discriminate against Japanese, Koreans, Filipinos, ect. therefor I am not a racist. Then let me continue…

 I would like to say that any kid that was born AND RAISED in a country other than Taiwan could attend that school but such a policy would be abused.  I believe that to attend TAS one parent needs to be of foreign nationality (ie British, Canadian, American, Korean) and THAT parent was born and raised in the that country with at least... lets say... 18 years of citizenship (rids out those locals who purchase their passports or at least the majority of them).   

 Of course priority should be given to "real" foreigners w/ both parents of foreign nationality.  Any student that has "duel citizenship" which one of the passports is Taiwanese would automatically be disqualified from attending TAS.

 Can TAS actually do this?  Of course they can.  What liberals in Taiwan forget is that this is TAIWAN, not the USA.  We could discriminate and it is not illegal.  As far as being multicultural, I agree a mix is good.  So lets fly in some Black, Hispanic, Filipino, and Japanese kids along with our N.Z., Australian, and other European friends.  If you haven't noticed I think we get enough exposure to the local chinese as it is.
22

I think there is a point in there somewhere that an International school is just that - not a school for rich locals to perpetuate their one-upmanship. It may not be that every expat wants his kids to mix in a Taiwanese elitist environment, but wants a genuinely American (or British or whatever) educational experience. Many expats will be moving on to some other country and some other International school. However, I don’t know what TAS’s policy is. Maybe it likes the extra dollars. Maybe it doesn’t want to be an International or American school. I know members of my family in Hong Kong were educated in ordinary local schools despite being eligible for boarding school in the UK or an “international” school in HK, the reason being that their parents didn’t want the kids to mix with super-elitist locals with totally different values systems. Although boarding school in the home country doesn’t appeal to all parents, it does avoid the problem of a discontinuous education in a series of localised “International” schools for the mobile expat. If TAS is becoming just an expensive local school, then it will cease to be anything special and expats may find their kids just as well educated and for less money at alternative local schools.

I have heard quite a few expats in Hong Kong say they left HK because they didn’t want their kids educated with the elite locals, didn’t want them sent off to boarding school, and didn’t believe they would get a good education in a local ordinary school.

23

Hey, I resent that remark about hippies :wink: … I may not be an average hippie, but am a hippie nonetheless. And I didn’t accuse you of racism, I merely asked you to explain your position, which you have done now.

So, my kid, who was born in the States, but has been in Taiwan since before his first birthday and has been attending local schools would not be permitted? I spend a great deal of time educating my boy on what I believe it means to be an American and teaching him about US government and history, such that he will someday understand the ideas of our founding fathers better than many Americans who are raised in the US. Should he still be ineligible for TAS admittance were we to want to send him there?

So, naturalized citizens are not “real” citizens and children born in the US are not “real” citizens until they live in the US for 18 years? Do I understand you correctly?

What about my kid? He is an US citizen, not a duel citizen. But his mother, my wife, does not qualify as a real “foreigner” per your above statements.

I don’t like discrimination.

24

Yes, he has definitely got a point. However, IMO, a better solution, if doable, would be to simply make tuition at TAS or the British School affordable so that non-expat “real” foreigners could send their “real” foreign children there. That is, BTW, one of the reasons that I support vouchers in the US.

Understood. But IMO, and this is only my opinion, I believe that the family is more important and influential, even for high school age kids, than is the school. In life, we must deal with all kinds of people, some of whom are “elitist”. I think it is the responsibility of the parents to explain things to their children and help them to see with their own eyes what goes on in this world.

TAS requires children to have either an US passport or a foreign (non-ROC) passport. These children receive priority over children holding US “green cards”.

That would be my guess, but I imagine the cost of running a foreign school is quite high, too.

I think TAS is actually an “international” school first, and an American school second. At least that is my understanding from TAS’ mission statement.

Again, I understand the concern. My kid, despite being eligible for TAS (though we couldn’t afford it without great difficulty) attends the local Taiwanese schools… but hey, there he is exposed to another totally different value system… I teach him values at home, and let his school teach him math and science. My Taiwanese-American (apparently not a “real” American) wife would very much prefer to home-school our boy… but I don’t like that idea. I think socialization is important.

Yeah. But as I implied above, I think parents are primarily responsible for educating their children, including teaching them values and more (such as history and social studies). Schools are good, however, for socialization (and math and science), and if that socialization means learning that some people on this planet are elitist snobs, well that’s a good lesson to learn. An even better lesson is when the child discovers first hand that these so-called elitists snobs are no better (or worse) than he.

Difficult decisions we parents have to make. Yes, 90630 does have a point. I just don’t think I can agree with it.

25

Way to go Tigerman

26

[quote=“tigerman”]

IMO, a better solution, if doable, would be to simply make tuition at TAS or the British School affordable so that non-expat “real” foreigners could send their “real” foreign children there. [/quote]

I wonder if TAS has scholarships for underpriviledged foreign children. When I was a student, I attended a private day school in the US which was very costly. One of my good friends, a genius child, was there on full scholarship.
I’m sure that with all the good works that TAS does in the community, that such possibilities do exist for missionary children, or children of expats whose companies DO NOT pay their children’s tuition for them.
Someone should check it out and let us know.

I imagine the intent of many Taiwanese parents enrolling their kids there is because they plan to eventually send their kids overseas to university, or they’re avoiding military service for their male children.

Nonetheless, TAS is an offers an impressive education and there should be options for those who cannot afford half a million NT in tuition, per child.

27

I agree with you there, in respect of day schools (which is what we’re talking about). There is a hideous trend in the UK that requires school teachers to be parents as well. First the government took away the “loco parentis” rights of discipline, and now they want to replace that with a similar requirement that teachers give the students the moral guidance that parents no longer provide. So, the teachers’ moral make-up is now just as important as his ability to teach, which is nonsense. (Parent: “Oh so Mr Jones is gay ! How can he possible teach my shild geography ! Oh ! Mrs Smith is a lesbian ! How can she possibly teach my daughter Economics ! Oh the times ! Oh the morals !” - Teacher: “Hey, you had the kids not me. You teach them morals, I’ll teach them Biology.”)

28

Just curious, how does being enrolled in TAS help you avoid military service for male children?
Sorry if this is off topic.

29

Sadly ironic, and unfortunately similar to trends in the US. American teachers previously acted in loco parentis for disciplinary matters but now are denied many previously employed methods of discipline (no surprise, as many parents too have been stripped of the right to use many forms of discipline… and no, I am not in favor of beating children)… But the irony, as you rightly point out, is that while stripping teachers of their in loco parentis role for discipline matters, the governments of most US states have decided that teachers are responsible for teaching values, which should, IMO, generally be conveyed by the parents.

“Its a mixed up muddled up shook up world”… The Kinks / Lola

30

[quote=“scomargo”]
Just curious, how does being enrolled in TAS help you avoid military service for male children?
Sorry if this is off topic.[/quote]

You know…having a US passport, and all.

31

Just because the kids have acquired American citizenship doesn’t relieve them of the obligations of their Taiwanese citizenship. AFIK, the only sure-fire way to avoid military service is to leave the island, or be deemed unfit for service.
Off-topic, but I remember an assistant coach in my taekwondo daoguan (dojo)… He was 19, over 6 ft. tall, about 100 kgs, fast, and had a roundhouse kick that hit you like a sledgehammer. He was not allowed to join because his right index finger (trigger finger) was missing from above the middle knuckle due to some childhood accident.

32

HA! If he was REAL soldiering material he’d figure out a way to pull that trigger with his TEETH, goddammit. Or learn how to gnaw people to death or something.

I don’t know, kids today… :unamused:

33

Last I heard, kids with ROC citizenship had to leave the island by age 12 to get out of military service. After age 12, it’s more difficult for them to leave the island.

As for getting out of service for health reasons, I had a friend once who gained about 60 pounds to fail the health inspection.

34

So i’m confused now. I just heard that if you’re a male foreigner married to a Taiwanese women, then your kids can’t attend the public schools. Is that correct? Does the father have to be Taiwanese in order for the kids to go to school?

Tigerman’s experience seems to suggest otherwise. Did I get some wrong info?

35

Chessman

This threadhas answers to your question.

36

Thanks for the link Muffin, but I’m didn’t see a definitive legal answer. Your child can go to school if you have guanxi with the principal. Ok. They can go if the child is a ROC citizen. Got it.
But what if you have no guanxi with a principal and the child isn’t a national? What if they have one of those little “half passports?”

37

[quote=“chessman71”]So i’m confused now. I just heard that if you’re a male foreigner married to a Taiwanese women, then your kids can’t attend the public schools. Is that correct? Does the father have to be Taiwanese in order for the kids to go to school?

Tigerman’s experience seems to suggest otherwise. Did I get some wrong info?[/quote]

My son goes to a Taiwanese school. I am an US citizen and my wife is a duel US and Taiwan (ROC) citizen. My son is not listed in his mother’s household registry, but rather, he has an ARC under mine, which is based upon my employment.

My wife just informed me that to get our son into school here she went to the Hu Zheng Shr Wu Swo (sorry about the spelling) for our area and informed the desk that handles education matters that we have a foreign child and that we live in such and such district served by such and such school. I think its fairly simple.

38

Chessman

Right. I meant it was discussed in the other thread.

The principal thing from my knowledge, and from Tigerman, is not a ‘guanxi’ concern. A parent just needs to talk to one to see what’s available. A few friends here in Tian Mu had no guanxi, yet their children attend the local elementary schools.

The actual legal part? There is a Legal Forum. Sounds like a good thread to start. You up for it?

39

Okay, here we go:
Can foreign children attend public school?

40

Tigerman,
Got a question for you. When you said that your son could learn math and biology at school and you would teach him values at home, how did that work out? I’m assuming that you had to explain this to your wife. How did you do that and what was her response?