Honorifics

Just read this on the BBC:

“The timing of these actions could not be more significant for the committee. Bannon’s sentence strikes at the heart of Mr Trump’s orbit and represents one of the most high-profile punishments yet handed down to his backers, several of whom have faced federal investigations. The outcome of a case like Bannon’s, which is inextricably linked to the Capitol riot, could point to more turbulent times ahead for Mr Trump, and other top lieutenants.”

Why is Trump referred to as “Mr” and Bannon isn’t?

Should we title this “Honorifics for politicians in the UK”, perhaps?

No. Uncle Huang who stumbles a round a rice paddy with no education, is referred to as “Mr Huang”, whereas the bloke interviewing him who has a doctorate in whatever, is called “Bob”. Check out the Discovery etc. channels.

I’m not sure I’m following you, but OK! All around general honorifics thread it is!

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Don’t be obtuse, mate. Why is Trump called “Mr”, but Bannon isn’t?
Why is the bloke tramping in a rice paddy called “Mr”, but the professor interviewing him is called “Bob”?

This is the part I don’t really get. I’m not sure there’s a connection to the first question anyway. It might be a convention of political speech. Like they refer to a former head of state as Mr or Ms as a rule.

I’m sceptical of that reasoning.

Just speculating! Something is going on I guess. Maybe someone will know for sure!

Just asking a simple question, mate. No need to make this into a Temp thread.

Well, no need to be rude, is there?

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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I’ll give you an honorific :smile:

Point taken: In this BBC article, this successful author doesn’t get a Mr:

“Mark Haddon on textbook murder,” February 24, 2013

On the other hand, I don’t know but what maybe The New York Times thinks that every guy rates a Mr.:

Baynard Woods, “Charles Manson Was Not a Product of the Counterculture,” November 20, 2017

David Montgomery, “Texas Marks ’66 Sniper Attack as University Prepares for ‘Campus-Carry’ Law,” July 30, 2016

I guess it’ll have to remain an unsolved mistery.

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I’ve seen this shit over and over again. Is it “Dahmer” or “Mr Dahmer”?
Who decides that?

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With Dahmer, I’m not sure whether The New York Times, which has a reputation for generosity in its use of Mr., has come to a decision about that. But I’ve found a Dahmer story in which it drops the Mr.:

Remy Tumin, “‘We Don’t Want to Relive It’: Jeffrey Dahmer Drama on Netflix Draws Anger,” October 5, 2022

Here’s a very early New York Times article in which he gets the Mr. treatment:

James Barron with Mary B. W. Tabor, “17 Killed, and a Life Is Searched for Clues,” August 4, 1991

I would need a subscription to investigate further, and I don’t have one.

Edited to add:

Maybe nowadays it’s left to the discretion of the author of the article.

It’s apparently BBC style to not use “Mr” etc. for convicted criminals:

Mr, Mrs etc should be used, except for convicted criminals - and also journalists, sports people, authors, actors, artists, musicians and entertainers in their professional capacity (eg: Throughout the interview, Paxman refused to be sidetracked. But: The burglars entered Mr Paxman’s house). Court reports, in the UK and abroad, should give defendants an honorific unless and until they are convicted.

In choosing between Miss, Mrs and Ms, try to find out what the person herself uses, and stick to that. Avoid foreign honorifics (eg: Herr, Madame or Signora).

There is no ban on using honorifics with the dead: it’s a matter of judging what is appropriate eg: A man murdered in front of his family does not immediately become “Smith”; he remains Mr Smith. It would be difficult to defend a court report where the victim was “Smith” and the alleged killer “Mr Jones”.

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So we wait until Trump becomes a convicted criminal.

From the same style rules:

(boldface in original)

So that should explain why the author Mark Haddon doesn’t get a Mr.:

“Mark Haddon on textbook murder,” February 24, 2013

“Buckley beats Mantel and Haddon to BBC story prize,” October 6, 2015

I guess that clears that one up.

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Actually what you said might be right. I mean, in the past Mr, Ms, etc… was widely used in the press and in some other contexts, but not much anymore. However Trump is an ex president and there might be a convention to address presidents and fauna of the kind as Mr.

The newspapers style guides used to be public, and I just found the one from The Times but as a PDF you need to purchase… I wonder if we can get the relevant style guide for this case and solve that question.

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OK, you found the style guide I was talking about. Kudos to you.

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