How about a gay/lesbian forum for Forumosa?

give us a forum Maomie…

puh-leaze?

Don’t make me sloppy kiss in your other threads…

I, for one, would like to hear the reasons that the “powers that be” are reluctant to establish a gay forum. If their reasons are valid, than I would be willing to acquiesce on the issue. If their reasons are, rather, just excuses, then I think we need to do some convincing and/or fighting for the forum if we really feel it is necessary.

But, just to say, “No we don’t want to.” Or, worse yet, to stay silent and say/do nothing, is not acceptable. This is a Taiwan-Oriented Online Community, as the header states. And, there apparently is a portion of the Taiwan-oriented community that feels it is not getting its needs met.

What say you, “Powers that be”?

As only one moderator, here are my personal reasons why I argued that a ‘Gay in Taiwan’ forum should not be established.

There is a lot of opinion that we should not start too many forums.

When we do start new forums, I believe that they should be started for new topic areas, not for certain groups of users.

Everyone has different needs or experiences of living in Taiwan and there are a lot of groups which share needs or experiences. Examples are gays, singles, foreign spouses, the elderly, students, professionals, Christians, vegetarians, parents, etc etc.

Rather than start new forums for each of these groups, members of these groups can start their own topics (eg ‘How to be a good Christian in Taiwan’) in general or post their experiences/needs (eg ‘Difficulties for elderly people finding teaching jobs’) in the appropriate forums.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to segregrate groups of people into different forums.

In a nutshell: new forums should be topic based, not group based.

That said, I do see that (as long is sufficient need, and it’s not a burden on the site as a whole) there is a place for private forums where groups with certain needs can discuss issues facing them as a group without fear of embarrassment or ridicule from intolerant members of the community as a whole. In the case of ‘gay issues’ though, I’d persoanlly prefer the discussion to go on here where I can read it, as I find the discussion interesting.

Brian

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]As only one moderator, here are my personal reasons why I argued that a ‘Gay in Taiwan’ forum should not be established.

There is a lot of opinion that we should not start too many forums.

When we do start new forums, I believe that they should be started for new topic areas, not for certain groups of users. [/quote]

Brian,

First of all, thanks for your opinion. I can understand your points and even accept some of them, finding many of them to have validity. Though, I do have a few questions for you on what you said. I’m not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand your point of view and start a discussion.

You said that groups should be topic based. Can you tell me what topic the La Vida Loca forum covers? It seems to me, and maybe I’m wrong, that the forum is for the group that includes Spanish speakers/people of Spanish decent living in Taiwan. Am I wrong or right? If I’m right, then how does that forum get justified based on your desire to make groups topic based.

Now, I realize that the forum may have been started before you became a moderator, that yours is only the opinion of one moderator (as you said), etc… But, I’d be interested in your answer.

Also, out of all the groups you mentioned, how many of them have specifically requested their own forums? And, using your own logic for the private groups…

… which of those other groups fits that criteria more than the gay/lesbian community. Not only do many of them face embarassment and ridiculte here, but in the “real world.” So, wouldn’t a safer place for them, within this community be appropriate?

Just wondering.

Jonathan

Well, let’s just say I was talking about ‘new’ groups. A need was seen for La Vida Loca at the time, and now that it’s there, I don’t think it would be fair to cancel it, but IMO as the site gets bigger we should be careful about creating new forums, without clear guidelines.

[quote]Quote:
there is a place for private forums where groups with certain needs can discuss issues facing them as a group without fear of embarrassment or ridicule from intolerant members of the community as a whole

… which of those other groups fits that criteria more than the gay/lesbian community. Not only do many of them face embarassment and ridiculte here, but in the “real world.” So, wouldn’t a safer place for them, within this community be appropriate?
[/quote]

Well yes. I was thinking of the Women’s Forum, but if you guys really saw a need for a private forum, I wouldn’t be against it, but personally I’d rather see the discussion out here ‘in the open’.

Brian

Well, when I said private I didn’t mean a “members only” section. Rather, just a separate forum where it is less likely the participants will feel embarassed or ridiculed. Though, I realize, like all forums, there will always be trolls who will try to sow discontent in any “open” forum.

Thanks, again, for your opinions. I appreciate your thoughts and comments. Now… I have to go do some other things. More comments tomorrow, if appropriate/necessary.

Jonathan

Mao: What if a woman wanted to ask other women about a book about women? Would you tell her to definitely post it in the book section? Seems a little silly… :?

The only people who are interested in topics like “Going”, are gay men, LGBTs, and their friends. By spreading out the gay topics, you are making it more difficult for us to find them. And I don’t really see the value of dumping it in “Restaurants and pubs” because your average joe schmoe who doesn’t care jack about a homo joint probably wouldn’t want to read it anyway.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that you give us a private forum that no one can read, because most of us probably don’t care. But what about a separate section? Besides, you are the big wig around here, we all know that you can read anything you want anyway :wink:

I guess I’m a silly guy, but yes, books about women, written by women, or written for women would properly belong in the books section. Unless they touched on Taiwan/China issues, in which case it would be in Cranky’s Culture & History forum.

I think that’s an important distinction there. We are a community for everybody interested in foreign life in Taiwan. We are not an exclusive resource for the gay community (or any other sub-group of foreigners in Taiwan), although we welcome their participation. We are also not a resource for fengshui masters from America, and do not classify restaurants, bars and nightclubs by their positive and negative fengshui characterstics. That being said, we welcome the participation of all fengshui experts. :smiley:

You never know. My wife and I often drink at places that are “gay-friendly”, if not exclusively for “Friends of Dorothy”.

Sorry, I just don’t see the need. At this point, I’m happy with the way gay issues are being expressed on this board. Also I’m trying to resist the Balkanization of these forums. I get PMs from people expressing opinions from both sides, and I don’t expect that I’ve changed your mind, but there it is.

I think that’s an important distinction there. We are a community for everybody interested in foreign life in Taiwan. We are not an exclusive resource for the gay community (or any other sub-group of foreigners in Taiwan), although we welcome their participation. [/quote]

I never said I wanted an exclusive resource for gay people. Does the Restaurant category make forumosa an exclusive resource for people who eat? I’m merely suggesting a new gay forum which is open to everybody. This would only make it easier for us to find things which are related to us. And FOR YOU to find things related to us too, if that’s your flav.

[quote=“maoman”]
You never know. My wife and I often drink at places that are “gay-friendly”, if not exclusively for “Friends of Dorothy”.[/quote]

That’s great! Welcome! And if there was a forum on such places, then you’d be able to find these places even easier. Out of curiousity, which exclusively gay places do you guys hang out at? Maybe we can go together next time?

Sorry, I just don’t see the need. At this point, I’m happy with the way gay issues are being expressed on this board. Also I’m trying to resist the Balkanization of these forums. I get PMs from people expressing opinions from both sides, and I don’t expect that I’ve changed your mind, but there it is.[/quote]

Sorry. I meant a forum. I’d like to think that a new gay-related forum is a bit different from splitting countries after communism. Like I said, I’m not suggesting a new website altogether, I’m suggesting a new forum. In a free society, people have the option and the freedom to join with similar people and to commune with birds of a feather. People who have an interest in Politics have a convenient way to find topics about Politics. You have said yourself that gay rights are of interest to more than just gay people… so put it on the same level as human rights, or Spanish speakers, or women’s issues. I’m just asking you to group things together for convenience sake. At least the fengshui people can all find related posts in the Culture forum. Lucky them :frowning:

No response? Are we just dropping this? You win?

What about a forum called “Gender and Sexuality Issues”? Certainly that could be on par (in size, scope and appeal) with the other forums?

I propose that a Gay Forum be put to a poll vote either by mods or the community at large. The exhibited non-compliance appears to be disturbingly dictatorial / authoritative.

Scooter, I want to argue once again what I said here. We should not start new forums for different groups of users in Taiwan. We should start forums for different aspects of life in Taiwan.

I firmly believe that rather than men, women, gays, straights, the old, the young, students, teachers, professionals, foreign spouses, parent etc each having their own forums, these groups should post in the regular forums. Yes, there are topics specific ot the needs fo these groups, but these should be posted as different topics. So best not to start a big topic ‘Gay in Taiwan’. Start topics like ‘Coming out as gay in Taiwan’, (Living in Taiwan), ‘Gay labelling’, (Open Forum?) ‘Gay bars’ (Restaurants and bars), ‘Gay movies’ (Films and Books), 'Homosexuality in Taiwanese history (Culture and History) etc.

Brian

Maoman has said on more than one occasion that gay related topics are for non-gay people to. I’m not suggesting that we start a forum FOR gay people, but ABOUT gay issues FOR everyone. That way gay-related topics are easier to find.

Start forums for different aspects of life in Taiwan? I’m all for it. Let’s start with a forum called: Gender and Sexuality. That’s a pretty large part of life in Taiwan, and appeals to a large audience (ie: everyone).

OK, Bu swung my vote back. Nix on a new forum for them.

Maoman has said on more than one occasion that gay related topics are for non-gay people to. I’m not suggesting that we start a forum FOR gay people, but ABOUT gay issues FOR everyone. That way gay-related topics are easier to find.

Start forums for different aspects of life in Taiwan? I’m all for it. Let’s start with a forum called: Gender and Sexuality. That’s a pretty large part of life in Taiwan, and appeals to a large audience (ie: everyone).[/quote]

For the record, I am also for a Gender and Sexuality Forum. Not as if I would have much to add to it, though. :frowning:

I want a ‘British forum’. I want a place where I can find all the UK related information on Forumosa in one handy section.

[quote=“Closet Queen”]I fully support a separate female forum. What is the membership number of that forum?

Wouldn’t a poll be a useful addition to this topic?

Let’s also remember that there have been repeated requests for a gay forum (not private), but this has so far been refused. There are plenty of gay issues and related stuff that could be discussed and arranged under such a forum. For example, we’ve had lots of contributions about gay “marriage”, relationship recognition, and residency rights of same-sex spouses, etc. The last, at least, is an important topic that should be easily accessible.[/quote]

Closet Queen,

Do you feel that the gay issues that have been discussed here were degraded in any way? It seems to me that the issues that I read were dealt with in a very mature way…but I could be wrong.

[quote=“Durins Bane”][quote=“Closet Queen”]I fully support a separate female forum. What is the membership number of that forum?

Wouldn’t a poll be a useful addition to this topic?

Let’s also remember that there have been repeated requests for a gay forum (not private), but this has so far been refused. There are plenty of gay issues and related stuff that could be discussed and arranged under such a forum. For example, we’ve had lots of contributions about gay “marriage”, relationship recognition, and residency rights of same-sex spouses, etc. The last, at least, is an important topic that should be easily accessible.[/quote]

Closet Queen,

Do you feel that the gay issues that have been discussed here were degraded in any way? It seems to me that the issues that I read were dealt with in a very mature way…but I could be wrong.[/quote]

Not at all. Sorry, if I was unclear, but that is not my point. I (and I’m not alone) would just like the issues with a specific gay focus discussed in a separate thread: it’s easier to follow, and it will likely encourage more responses. No one is asking for a private forum, or complaining about heterosexual input. It would be for everyone naturally; but better arranged.

I wrote my first response in the thread titled “Should there be a private women’s forum on Forumosa”. Now, I see it has been moved to this LBG thread. Exactly so, and this illustrates my point: certain topics belong in dedicated threads and forums. We have enough gay posters (or otherwise) and gay issues under discussion to justify making a separate gay forum.

Are there people clamoring for such forums?

(Most) gay people feel a distinct identity, much stronger than married people vs singles, etc. Gay people definitely need “their own space” – whether it serves Forumosa to host such a space for them, that I’m not sure.