How did Taiwan do it?

Something that’s been nagging at me for a while, especially after (over the past few years) seeing the decrepitude and despicable behaviour that passes for human civilisation in most countries. Various other posts got me thinking about this again.

If you read some of Dr Mackay’s notes, Taiwan was a pretty backward place at the close of the 19th Century. Presumably it wasn’t a lot different when the Japanese annexed the country. After WW2 it was subjected to the sustained idiocy and barbarism of Cash My Cheque and his minions. In many ways, the last 200 years of Taiwanese history has been similar to that of its other (markedly less pleasant) Asian neighbours. Even in the 60s and 70s - when, supposedly, the seeds of Taiwan’s future development were sown, there was rampant corruption and favouritism, unrestrained pollution and environmental destruction, and a noticeable caste system, with the hoi polloi being abused and exploited by the landed gentry or those with connections.

So: what the hell happened? Martial law was only lifted in 1987. How did Taiwan transform itself from a failed state to the (more-or-less) successful country that it is today? Without brushing under the rug its remaining failings, that transformation has been pretty miraculous. I can’t think of a single country that has achieved anything comparable. I’m referring here to the general human experience of everyday life: relative social harmony, a more-or-less functioning justice system, useful education, accessible medical care, and the freedom to provide for one’s family a roof over their heads and food on the table.

Anyone have any ideas? I assume it was a combination of several factors, but maybe there were one or two more important ones. How might other failed states replicate what Taiwan did?

I’m not sure I get exactly what the question is. Taiwan’s economic development really took off in the 1960s through the late 1980s, bringing too-fast industrialization (i.e., concrete) to every part of the island by the 1990s. A more sophisticated populace combined with CCK’s recognition that with the loss of the ROC’s biggest ally he couldn’t continue the charade of legitimacy led to a course of democratization. The specifics are different but the timeframe for Korea is about the same – authoritarian state with US support that democratized only in the past 30+ years and is now doing rather well for itself.

Parts of China have undergone the exact changes you’ve talked about, though they are in the minority. Japan did the same but about half a century earlier. It’s a remarkable achievement (hence the title economic miracle) but Taiwan is not the only place it happened.

The answer to your question is here

also here:

One of the perks of being US-integrited is that, you’re more or less in-phase with US economy, with a phase delay. or propagation delay if you like)

Just to throw a few things out there: the Chinese work ethic, Japanese infrastructure, and America strong-arming the KMT into economics reforms.

I read somewhere about how the Japanese significantly improved public sanitation, but I can’t seem to find that source. Anyone have any references on that?

I wasn’t really thinking of ‘economic development’ or industrialisation. Either of those can occur without any human progress being made (China, for example, may be ‘economically developed’, but hasn’t seen much social or intellectual improvement). I was referring more to things like:

  • Public safety. You have little to fear from your fellow citizens or from the police/government. Not many countries can say the same.
  • Social equity. Yes, there are an awful lot of rich people who made money by dubious means. But the average man/woman in the street is educated enough to provide a decent living for himself, without working in a job that’s beneath human dignity, criminal, or both (say, cleaning sewers or handling dangerous chemicals without protection, prostitution, burglary, or fraud). If he/she is ill or has toothache, he can get himself fixed without slipping the doctor a red envelope -which was not true 30 years ago.
  • Relative lack of idiots, losers and outcasts. Sure, there are always a few nutters, weirdos, and people with genuine mental illnesses. Most people are able to interact with their fellow citizens in logical, polite, and mutually-beneficial ways.

In other words, a majority of Taiwanese people are decent people and good citizens. Corruption - which was endemic not so long ago - has almost disappeared. In other countries which have had similar experiences and had a similar starting point, a majority are psychologically scarred, retarded, or have ‘thinking problems’ caused by a Kafkaesque state apparatus. I’m talking about people and interpersonal relationships, not statistics in the CIA Factbook.

I agree that S.Korea is broadly comparable, but my (limited) experience is that the level of life satisfaction is still much lower: they have a high rate of alcoholism, xenophobia and nationalism is at toxic levels, and Koreans generally strike me as somewhat morose. Was there anything unique about Taiwan’s experience that achieved such an impressive outcome so fast?

The most critical factor is Lee Teng Hui’s reform.

In my opinion, Democracy accomplishes amazing things when in the shadow of an enemy, in this case mainland China, but then falls into excess, pandering for votes and deliberate division when there is no enemy.

You can see this in South Korea (as you mentioned), in Japan during the reconstruction (but less so today), in the United Kingdom and States during WWII. With an enemy you let people work together, without one it appeals to the lowest common denominator and everyone who has a chip on their shoulder.

And if you’ll forgive my digression, this is how we know that Bush 43 lied to us about Iraq. The people from New American Century never wanted Iraq to be a quick conflict, they were counting on a quagmire in order to have a long-term uniting effect upon America and if it weren’t for the economic crash and hurricane Katrina, they might have gotten what they were looking for. While I generally don’t support Obama, I do respect that he is removing the troops from the middle east as he promised, though the beast created in ISIS will probably have us going back in again anyway.

Finley I can send you my history writeup for Lonely Planet and it will explain everything. :slight_smile:

Basically you have fallen for the KMT narrative that this place was undeveloped until they came along. It was not. Even in the late 1880s Taiwan had been forced open by the treaty after the second opium war and streets such as Dihua Street in Taipei and also in Anping show that trade was bringing prosperity.

Also Taiwan had been settled by mostly Fujianese who have around the world shown a remarkable skill in developing prosperous communities. The Chinese have all inherited several of the strongest indicators of prosperity and a civil society: a strong state and a strong fairly neutral bureaucracy. Chinese immigrants were coming from a country with a long tradition of wealth, civilization, and respect for education.

In any case, in Taiwan, by the late 1930s, industry had replaced agriculture as the main driver of the economy, literacy rates were 85-90% for young people, and at least 1% of the population actually had some college education. There were dozens of newspapers, radio stations, railways, modern sanitation, etc.

There were movie theatres, political and social clubs, professional groups, athletic clubs, and all the other signs of progress. There were poetry societies and the first home rule party was formed in the late 1920s.

Taiwan was a civilized prosperous place before the KMT came. Many historians also say that the immigrant experience had made people generally honest as the need for cooperation was so great in the early years.

By the time the KMT came along the place was already civil. They set everything back decades. It took for example 2 decades after the war to get literacy rates back up to what they were.

That said, they did do the one thing which is pretty much guaranteed to raise living standards: provided education to everyone. You mentioned the hoi polloi getting shafted but that isn’t really the case. Everyone was given at least 9 years of education free and land reform got rid of the abusive tenant farmer. This was forced on the KMT by the Americans but they still did it.

The question of how one state succeeds and another doesn’t is fascinating and I suggest you read Francis Fukayama’s Political Order and Political Decay in which he lays out theories of just how this happens; and doesn’t. Great comparisons on why the US and the UK went from corrupt patronage based systems in the 19th centuries to modern systems with accountable merit based bureaucracies in the 20th, but how Greece and Italy didn’t quite manage.

The funny this is there were moments reading this when I swear he was paraphrasing some of the stuff you said about the Philippines. :laughing:

Btw, it’s also incredibly readable. Fukuyama has a rare skill in making dense theory and history completely accessible and relevant.

You can also see Ho’s Economic Development of Taiwan 1860-1970:
jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2 … 4629325201

Also:
Cultural change in postwar Taiwan / edited by Stevan Harrell and Huang Chün-chieh

You can look at the history of Tzu Chi and the influence of humanistic Buddhism (renjian fojiao) that developed in Taiwan was based on doing charity in this lifetime.

And here:
taipeitimes.com/News/feat/ar … 2003552552

Thanks for the awesome reply, MM. I’d be very interested to read your research on the subject.

Not at all. On the contrary, I was pointing out that the period from the end of WW2 to (say) the 1980s was a period of complete stagnation, or worse. What I find amazing is how Taiwan recovered from that period of repression and retrogression, whereas most countries utterly fail to do so, or take a very long time.

This is not the picture that emerges from George Mackay’s notes. He describes a mostly uncivilized place, beset by petty (and not-so-petty) crime, widespread ignorance, and systemic poverty.

Are you suggesting, then, that the answer to “what happened?” was, basically, “Japan”?

I was referring there to stories from older people, who told me that poor people usually got the shit end of the stick when it came to social justice, and were likely to be pushed around (say, made to work in dangerous conditions) by arrogant factory bosses. Not unique to Taiwan, of course, but again, my point was that things have changed rapidly.

Land reform, IMO, is possibly one of the top three reasons why Taiwan is prosperous today; but I wanted to hear other people’s opinions.

It’s funny you should mention that, since my limited reading of my own (British) history gave me the exact same impression. “Great” Britain, until just a couple of hundred years ago, was pretty much a failed state with all the same problems as the Philippines today. That also piqued my interest in the question, “how do you get out of a mess like that?”, since my overriding impression of humanity is that stupidity is self-perpetuating, while making any kind of advance is like balancing a pin on its point.

That’s possible, I suppose. One social feature that stands out in the Philippines is the locals’ complete inability to co-operate for mutual benefit, even when little or no effort is required. Perhaps immigrants - even if unknown to each other or from different places - feel a greater sense of kinship than people who grew up next door to each other. That would certainly be an odd result, but it does make intuitive sense.

I’ve been intending to read Fukayama for a while and never got around to it. Maybe I’ll get the Kindle edition.

Btw, I added to my post above about the level of Taiwan in the late 19th century and also the influence of Chinese culture on immigrants.

But it wasn’t a period of stagnation at all. Taiwan had high growth basically from the late 50s on.

Don’t forget too that American aid provided all or most of the money for infrastructure throughout the 50s and 60s. Taiwan was benefiting from aid and support from an advanced country that wanted to see it develop and that held sway over the KMT because of the threat of China.

Yeah Fukuyama talks a lot about trust as a major factor in creating prosperous and civil society. He write a whole chapter on Italy and how a lack of trust is one of the problems that has kept it from becoming as prosperous as northern European countries. He isn’t convinced that culture is at the heart of it though so much as modern historical events such as being under foreign control (which makes people mistrust government).

That’s what I am reading.

Btw, I could have refered you to the awesome Taiwan Encyclopedia as it had extensive articles translated from real historica writings on all these subjects. But they just closed the bloody website this summer and have replaced it with one that has no English. :fume:

I’d suggest reading Robert Reich and Lee Teng Hui.

Timing is everything.

The majority of Taiwanese culture was formed in the Japanese Era before 1947. What Lee Teng Hui’s reform did (that was successful) was that it allowed he majority to regain a sense of control and spiritual fulfillment. This is in the 80s and 90s where economic growth peaks and incoming ineqaulity is about to widen drastically. The reform was mostly in the political and spiritual aspects. Timing was just right to “fill in the gap” so to speak.

Now the foundation of Taiwan’s society, whether you like to call it civil society, or Taiwan identity, was formed in the Japanese Era before 1947. So Lee Teng Hui’s reform restored the characteristics of pre-47 Taiwan.

I can tell you first hand the most overlooked aspect of Lees reform, because I was in elementary school and junior high during his administrations. Mind you that this was during the transition from Chinese Fascism into democracy, so I received education in both flavours.

The Chinese fascism, like all fascism, aspect would channel the political messages from top leadership. The message would permiate through education.
Luckily the message was democratic.

So what the school was pushing was No.1, 心靈改革。 Meaning, a reform of conscience.
No.2, 民之所欲常在我心 meaning, “go ahead and democratize because the political leader has given it a go-ahead.”

There is no surprise that the Chinese Fascists hate Lee, because Lee used the toolkit of fascism to dismentle fascism.

Going back to Robert Reich’s chart you’d find out that as income inequailty grows rapidly since the 80s, Taiwan’s deomcracy introduced social welfare. This was very good timing , just enough to keep the majority feeling not threatened.

Coming back to Lee Teng Hui, if you study this man you’ll see that he was well trained in economy and philosophy. He was born in the early 1920s in the family of a land owner and really understood the core values, the social fabric, and the inner-working of Taiwanese society. Lee’s understood that all he had to do is to terminate Chinese Fascism.

Interesting observations, sofun. People around your age tell me that Lee’s presidency was marked by a lot of ‘public announcements’ about keeping the place clean, being polite, etc etc. Conversely, public messages in dysfunctional countries seem deliberately designed to cause trouble.

It’s only my personal opinion, by I think changes occur when people are pushed into a fundamentally different train of thought; the thought changes are achieved by forcing them to perform different daily rituals, especially when young. Propaganda - positive and negative - is far, far more powerful than people imagine. Economic development is important of course (you can’t have social services until there’s some meaningful tax revenue) but you can’t get sustained economic development without - at a bare minimum - public confidence that one’s neighbours, employees, or the police won’t shut down your business tomorrow for some arbitrary reason.

I completely agree about timing - what works at one time might have a different effect at another. I get the feeling that Lee (Chen also) was able to play a certain part in his country’s evolution, but was not suited to anything beyond (or even prior to) that particular moment in history. Some people just seem to get their 15 minutes of fame.

If that’s true, it’s a hell of a neat trick.

Any more details?

I’m gonna say the fundamental change was instigated by Japan as well.

Before the Japanese got here, different ethnicity groups used to engage in local warfare with one another through out Taiwan. Not just Han on Aboriginal/Aboriginal on Han violence, not just Aboriginal on Aboriginal violence, not even just Holo on Hakka/Hakka on Holo violence, I’m talking about Tsuân-tsiu Holo on Tsiang-tsiu Holo and vice versa violence,

The scale of these small wars was not that small, and the Qing government often just watched on the sideline. This led to a complete lost of faith in the Qing government and laws. If anything, the Japanese ended all forms of infighting, and for some part encouraged different ethnicity to work together and fight a common enemy (the Japanese). Of course, many still chose to work with the Japanese and continue their habit of killing one another, such as Seediq helping the Japanese to kill Toda, and Toda helping the Japanese to kill Seediq. However, by the end of WW2, there was no more infighting.

The Japanese was the first to modernize Taiwan. Much of southern Taiwan was unfriendly to agriculture due to annual draught periods. The Japanese water civil engineering changed that, and Japanese dams and water networks are still in use today. Without those water networks, Taiwan wouldn’t even be able to feed itself, and the possibility of an drastic industrial advancement would be small. The same goes for the railway system.

Other neighbouring nations in Southeast Asia didn’t have a comparable infrastructure and that’s what enabled Taiwan’s industrial transformation ahead of the rest of Southeast Asia.

At the risk of simplifying, here’s my take:

I. The Southern Chinese cultural background.
The Southern Chinese (especially the Fujianese and Cantonese) have always had the drive to get rich through their own effort, coupled with a business-like mindset. That’s the necessary first step for any kind of development to take place, and one never reached by some other cultures where people are content with merely screwing around, barely scraping by and just surviving.

Why only limited development happened in China in the past was because every few years or so there would be a turmoil leaving people dead, property destroyed, and economy in tatters. Still, people already had the necessary mentality and were willing to repeatedly keep trying and restarting from scratch even if the situation prevented them from achieving their full potential.

Among these people, the immigrants to Taiwan (as well as the Straits Chinese) were already self-selected, with a bias towards risk takers, somewhat similar to what the first European settlers in America were like (although the risks here were smaller by an order of magnitude). Possibly because of this and some other factors, even in the Qing times (late 19th century), Taiwan was already doing better than most other places in China.

II. The Japanese organizational framework.
With the arrival of the Japanese, the system was rigged from the start towards the exploitation of natural resources and shipping them to Japan without anything but the simplest industrial processing beforehand. Formosa was supposed to remain an agricultural hinterland to the metropolis, with the local populace educated only to the extent that it was beneficial towards the economic growth of Japan: for example, the Japanese-established Taihoku Imperial University, now the NTU, [strike]did not[/strike] admitted few Taiwanese students [strike]at all[/strike]. From the Japanese point of view, the Taiwanese were firmly second-class expendable laborers, so the present nostalgia towards these times in Taiwan is more than anything else a manifestation of the Stockholm syndrome and an expression of the disappointment with what happened later.

Still, at least it was all done efficiently, and without killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Establishing the colony in Taiwan, the Japanese brought with them the much-needed stability. Even with the rent-seeking monopoly system they had set up, the local people could still prosper reasonably well and even advance economically, as long as they kept working hard (this is in sharp opposition to what was brought upon them in the post-war years). As long as no Japanese interests were involved, the legal and economic system was equally fair to all the Taiwanese, or at least predictable in its workings. This was the growth-conducive environment China could not provide.

What also helped was that Formosa was Japan’s first colony, and through the efficient management of it, the Japanese wanted to firmly entrench their position as one of the advanced nations of the world, hereto an exclusively Western club; thus, they didn’t dare attempt some of the stuff the already-established “advanced” nations had no problem doing in their colonies. Had King Leopold’s tentacles reached Formosa, maybe it’d still be rife with civil war to the present day?

III. The post-war policies.
After the post-war takeover, the Chinese republican government continued to run Taiwan very much like a colony but aiming for the short-term gains only as opposed to the long-term sustainability the Japanese were generally trying to achieve. It also brought to the island all of China’s woes, such as nepotism, corruption and gangsterism, to name a few. As a result, Taiwan was largely stagnant until the late 1960s.

One thing the post-war government did well, if only by accident, was the land reform, which allowed mass land ownership, incentivizing rural development and eventually leading to the reallocation of labor towards the nascent industries. As opposed to virtually anywhere else in the world, the land reform was politically easy here, as the land belonged either to the Japanese, who were expropriated, or to the local elites, who had zero political influence with the newcomers; in fact, it was politically desirable to take away their source of income to deprive them of any residual power they might have retained. Note that only after the Communists took over was there a land reform in China, where the landlords were politically well-connected before 1949.

What happened somewhere throughout the 1960s was a combination of many factors at play. The government started refocusing towards encouraging export-oriented growth, as opposed to the earlier attempts at import-substitution policies, which proved a deep failure in basically any country where they were implemented. There was some deregulation, as well as investment in infrastructure and (vocational) education. The government also managed the currency reasonably well since the introduction of the “new dollar,” although still, the banking-sector credit was available to cronies mostly, while unconnected entrepreneurs needed to turn to the kerb market for capital (the “hui”).

Executive summary
To sum it up, I think it’s not as much about as why it all started the 1960s but rather what stopped Taiwan from developing earlier, given all the seeds were planted long time ago.

The answer to this is, I believe, that in the 1960s (1) there was finally no war for some time, (2) the political system became more or less predictable after all the new arrivals settled the boundaries of their respective turfs, and (3) the opportunities for export trade appeared, while (4) the government did not stand in the way and possibly even helped a little.

Yet another take (looking at it somewhat negatively) would be to say that (1) China could not provide a stable and predictable economic and social environment, (2) Japan was not interested in developing Taiwan “too much,” as it would rather have all the industry itself, (3) the post-war period years were largely wasted due to the turmoil brought by the government evacuated from China, until the dust settled in; and that’s why not much could have been achieved before 1896, 1945, and the 1960s respectively.

Edited November 25, 2014 to rephrase the part about the Taiwanese students at the Japanese-era NTU.

It’s hard to believe that NTU in Japanese times didn’t admit Taiwanese students, how come Lee Teng Hui attended there then?

BTW, NTU’s ‘history’ makes for interesting reading.

ntu.edu.tw/engv4/about/about.html
About NTU
NTU’s institutional predecessor was Taihoku Imperial University, founded in 1928 by the Japanese colonial administration. The first president was Shidehara Tan Tairaka Hiroshi. In 1945, the Republic of China won the war of resistance against Japan, and Taiwan was handed over to the Nationalist government of China. On November 15 of that year, Taihoku Imperial University was formally transferred to Chinese administration and renamed as National Taiwan University, with Dr. Tsung-lo Lo appointed as the first President.

:loco:

Got sources on that?

According to wiki, in 1928 (founding year), there was a total of 6 Taiwanese students enrolled at Taihoku Imperial University. By 1934 there were 26. By 1940 there were 83 Taiwanese undergrads, 2 Taiwanese grad students, and 2 Korean undergrads.

杜淑純, daughter of 杜聰明 the first Taiwanese M.D.Ph.D., was the first female Taiwanese student at Taihoku Imperial University.

Lee Tenghui attended Kyoto Imperial University. However, headhoncholl makes a good point, if the Japanese wouldn’t even allow Taiwanese to attend Taihoku Imperial University, why even bother letting all those Taiwanese attend universities in Japan?

A few examples, Kyu Eikan (邱永漢), famous in Japanese as an investment guru, attended Tokyo Imperial University around 1942, was almost suspended from Tokyo Imperial University for criticizing Japanese imperialism. Post war Kyu returned to Taiwan and was deeply appalled by 228. Kyu petitioned to the UN stating that Taiwan’s sovereignty status is undetermined and Taiwanese should have the right to self-determination. KMT issued a warrant to arrest Kyu for participating in Taiwanese independence, and Kyu first fled to Hong Kong before making his way back to Japan.

林茂生 was the first Taiwanese to get a PhD from the US. Lin also attended Tokyo Imperial University, graduated in 1916. The Japanese prefecture sponsored Lin to study in the US. Lin got his PhD from Columbia University in 1929. Lin’s son 林宗義 M.D.Ph.D. also graduated from Tokyo Imperial University in 1943. During 228, Lin senior was taken away from his home on March 11th, 1947, and was killed by the KMT. The sad thing is Lin senior was a hardcore sinophile. Lin would use Minggou to date years even under Japanese occupation. He fantasized about Confucianism even though he was a presbyterian, refered to China as his fatherland. Lin senior was there to welcome KMT’s arrival. His death pretty much disillusioned every Taiwanese at the time.

Not to mention all those students from KANO baseball team who later attended famous baseball universities in Japan.

This is incorrect. I already posted how industrial production taken over agriculture as the main share of gdp by the late 1930s. The Bank of Taiwan was also established very early on to deal with investment and development of Taiwan. There was never the plan to leave Taiwan an agricultural hinterland. Kaohsiung was a centre for heavy industry even during the Japanese times. The KMT more or less continued with the industrial planning under the Japanese: Ktown for heavy industry; Taichung for light; and Taipei for administration.

Furthermore, you just have to read the words of the governor generals to know that they did not, and from the beginning, see the development of Taiwan as being only for the Japanese.

A very very simple thought experiment is to ask why any government would put so much money into public parks, libraries, sewage and garbage systems, and other public goods if they only were interested in exploitation?