I asked AIT and as usual, they were less than helpful sent a reply and hoping to get a decent answer back from them. This is what they sent:
I’ve only ever had one Passport, my current one, which I got in order to come to Taiwan. I don’t want to pay for transcripts and I don’t believe Uni’s will send them to a person. I haven’t bothered to keep tax records as most have been past the 10 year limit. I have no work record that I could call on. The only things that I can think of are my old driver’s license, I was also born outside of the US so my birth certificate is not all that handy either.
I have my high school diploma from my US high school and my approved passport application with my US address at the time. I also have letters going to my current American address and I have my AZ driver’s license. Would this be sufficient? What about a notarized letter from my mother in the US attesting to the fact that I have lived in the US for 25 years?
I don’t understand how I prove something like this having lived 8+ years outside the US. I’m also afraid of AIT doing a shifting standards. Agree to something by email, but turn it down in person.
usually, things like bank accounts, phone bills, power bills, rental agreements, mortgages, etc., drivers license, credit card bills, with your name and address on the bills. And it wouldn’t be just one document (e.g. the bank account doesn’t prove residency), but the totality of all those bills and such would show someone that you “were there”. (of course, this could be a phantom thing, but that’s if the guy gets suspicious).
WTF, when did the US become some damn banana republic where a US citizen has to prove to have lived in the US for 5 years in order for his kid to get his citizenship? So I have to throw a lot of paper at them in hopes that it trips past the magic line in some beuracrat’s head that I’m telling the truth. It just seems stupid and you want these type of people running your health care?
What?!? :eh: Obtaining official copies of your transcripts with the seal and everything should be no problem. I’ve done it multiple times. It is usually the receiving party which wants the transcripts sent directly to them because they want to reduce chances of tampering.
I’m guessing that won’t fly but then I’m not an authoritative source on this topic.
[quote=“Okami”]
I don’t understand how I prove something like this having lived 8+ years outside the US. I’m also afraid of AIT doing a shifting standards. Agree to something by email, but turn it down in person.[/quote]
No kidding. You should always worry about shifting standards. You talk to one clerk and they tell you something and then you talk to someone else and their version of reality is very different. That’s bureaucracy for ya. :loco:
Your U.S. high school diploma and your U.S. university/college diploma (or copies of these) would show that you have lived in the U.S. for more than five years.
Just to clarify since you didn’t mention it in the original post, this is for your kid, right? Legally yours & under 18?
Certificate of Birth Abroad to U.S. citizens (FS-240)? I’m assuming you already went HERE.
Says nothing about any minimum residency time. Where did you hear “5 years”? The AIT email doesn’t mention that, nor does the State Department website. Make them show you that requirement in their regulations/laws.
Based on your prior posts, 10-year passport validity - 8 years outside of U.S. = 2 years left on current U.S. passport, correct? Good on #2.
If you attended high school/college in the U.S., most schools will send sealed/notarized transcripts to whoever you want, and it usually costs less than $10. Good on #4.
Failing all that, do you have a photo of yourself at the Grand Canyon?
BTW, if you haven’t filed federal taxes for 8 years, that’s bad…don’t have to PAY on foreign-earned income, but I’m pretty certain you’re still supposed to FILE!.
On a related note, if you were born outside the U.S. to U.S citizen parents, you should have you OWN birth certificate and appropriate State-Dept-issued citizenship documents, available from the State Dept in D.C. (not where you were born). If you were naturalized, you should have those docs. If neither, how did you get a passport in the first place??
[quote]1. Evidence of Physical Presence in the U.S. for U.S. citizen parent: If only one parent is a U.S. citizen, that parent will have to present evidence of five years of physical presence in the U.S. prior to the child’s birth. Two of the five years must be after age fourteen.
* Time spent in the U.S. does not have to be consecutive.
* Maintaining a residence in the U.S. (for example, owning property, voting, paying taxes) is not sufficient.
* Evidence might include: School and employment records, tax withholding statements, social security statements, expired passports with entry and exit stamps, Taiwan immigration Entry/Exit Record.[/quote]
About as clear as muddy water. Oh and no passport, that means I might have lived in Canada. I was born in Germany and have a CRBA too.
I file 2 1040’s every spring, like a good a Taiwanese
With out a time/date stamp? It might not be the real me, maybe it was in Taroko. It seems to be an AIT thing and pretty dumb, since if my wife and I were Taiwanese and my wife had the kid in the US the kid would automatically have US citizenship.
I can understand why the State Department requires that overseas born Americans have to prove a record of physical presence in the US in order to pass citizenship on. However, I have two problems with it.
First, there are a lot of people like Okami who have no idea that they need to be keeping a stack of documents with them in order to pass citizenship on. Most people would not keep all this stuff. As I remember, the five years now needs to be after a certain age, either 15 or 12 years old. For some people, this will mean university and a few years of employment afterwards. I have a friend here in HK whose application for a consular report of birth for his kid was rejected. He had all his transcripts from university, plus some documents proving he had rented a place and had an income for a couple of years after university. The twats at the consulate told him that he also needed to prove that he had stayed in the US during the summer breaks while in University. This proved to be impossible. While in university, he supported himself by working as a shadetree mechanic. He did quite well moneywise, and was always paid in cash. The lack of income proof, along with the fact that for much of the time he was staying with relatives rather than in leased property fucked him. Last I heard was that he was working with an immigration lawyer to try to get the consulate’s decision overturned. No idea how that’s going.
The other thing that pisses me off, and I’m pretty sure that I’m correct about this, is that if both parents are US citizens, even if they are naturalized and long ago left the US, then their child can still easily get the consular report of birth. This came to my attention when a colleague of mine at work reported his daughter’s birth. I asked him if he needed to take a stack of documents. It turned out that he did not. He and his wife, like many HKers, jumped ship before 1997 and acuqired US citizenship. For them, a US passport is just a handy thing to have. Neither have especially strong ties to the US, and they definitely don’t plan to move back. Made my blood boil.
[quote=“Jive Turkey”]Neither have especially strong ties to the US, and they definitely don’t plan to move back. Made my blood boil.[/quote] What would you think about the recent increase in “border babies”? Pregnant Mexican women go to border checkpoints when they go into labor, end up calling an ambulance and going to U.S. hospitals to give birth (they’re closest) so their kids can later claim citizenship if they feel like it, and then go back to Mexico… Costs often born by U.S. taxpayers. I can see their logic, but when side by side w/a case like this involving somebody who’s actually a U.S. citizen, it’s frustrating :\
@ Okami: hopefully transcripts or something will work out for you. First I’ve heard of this & although I’m not planning on having kids any time soon, I’ll probably be overseas if/when I do. Thanks for bringing it up.
Seems they do send transcripts to you, they were always funny about it before letting you have your transcripts when I went to Uni. I love the reply to my last response to their reply:
[quote]Thank you for your inquiry. We usually do see transcripts in our office from U.S. citizens providing evidence that they lived in the U.S. We are aware that universities and other schools do send transcripts to their graduates, when asked. You may also ask a previous employer in the U.S. to write a letter stating your work experience in the U.S. You could also provide us with your own photocopies of IRS tax returns. We suggest that you bring all documentary evidence that you can to the interview and discuss the situation with the officer. Often, he/she can determine whether applicants meet the requirements based upon the personal interview. If more evidence is needed, he/she will inform you at the interview and you can send it to us later.
On another topic, we encourage all U.S. citizens travelling or living in Taiwan to join AIT’s e-mail message service to receive our latest bulletins in the event of an emergency. Just email our group’s site at: travel.state.gov/travel/tips … _1186.html
[/quote]
So I have to throw a bunch of documents at the “open border crowd” in order to get my daughter her US citizenship because her mom is not a US citizen too. If that doesn’t work I can travel back and forth between Changhua and Taipei trying to sort it out. We also have to all show up for the first and probably later visits. Next kid, my wife gives birth in the states and F&^% this mess. I mean if some tart can cut a whole in a fence to crawl in or roll across a ditch into the US and give birth and the kid automatically gets it, then why this hoop for mature long term expats or even people with a US passport as a convenience. I think the answer has to do with the State Dept. doing f-all in the world and needing to make work.
Like an internet based response will work in case of an emergency.
Hmm…things must have changed. My wife is not a US citizen and registering our consular births took minimal documentation and about 10min waiting time. I think I just showed my HS & college diplomas.
The other thing that pisses me off, and I’m pretty sure that I’m correct about this, is that if both parents are US citizens, even if they are naturalized and long ago left the US, then their child can still easily get the consular report of birth. This came to my attention when a colleague of mine at work reported his daughter’s birth. I asked him if he needed to take a stack of documents. It turned out that he did not. He and his wife, like many HKers, jumped ship before 1997 and acuqired US citizenship. For them, a US passport is just a handy thing to have. Neither have especially strong ties to the US, and they definitely don’t plan to move back. Made my blood boil.[/quote]
If that pisses you off, you shouldn’t read up on EB-5 Investors visa, aka Millionaires visa. You have to invest anywhere from 500k to 3 million US and you are given a green card. One of my professors introduced the topic in class when we were covering the 1997 South Korean economic crisis. Tons of very rich Koreans jumped ship and went to the US and Canada with their spare cash, invested, and got permanent residency.
I am in the midst of doing this myself…getting the proof of physical residence. I have the SAME complaints. Honestly, the lady could ask me 10,000 questions. She could ask me to recount my life from birth through university. I honestly don’t know what game they are playing.
Who has their middle school and high school transcripts, living in the US, let alone living abroad? Who has carried with them overseas tax returns covering five years? Who would imagine that I would need to bring my DD-214 to work overseas? Who even has a clue to bring them to the embassy based on their very vague language and non-answers to questions. The first thing anyone should assume when reading what they put on the website is that they are completely unreasonable in all their evaluations. If they want five years, you had better be prepared to give them 10 years, because if you didn’t take summer classes at University, there is not way of knowing if you left the United States…oh wait…your passport has all the stamps in it? Hmmmm? Oh, that’s not good enough?
The guy tells me a four-year university diploma is not good enough either, because I might have done it through distance learning. Well what are we paying them $100 for. Can’t they get on the phone and call the school to ask, ‘hey, does your school offer a study-abroad program?’ or ‘hey, did this guy study at this school for four years and give you $50,000?’ And how does a transcript showing the classes you took negate the possibility that it was some kind of a study abroad program anyhow?
I lived in the United States unbroken from the time that I was born until I was 37 years old, minus two years I served the US Army in Germany, and in Saudi Arabia & Iraq for the Gulf War. So because I have not satisfied their exotic requirements I need to write my county school board a letter to request my junior and high school records?
Especially as a child born in the US to illegal immigrants is automatically a citizen (an absolutely outdated law, leftover from after the abolition of slavery…when it made sense). Gotto love 'em anchor babies!
Actually they don’t prove anything. I have a driver’s license, bank account, and credit card bills from the United States and I hadn’t spent more than 2 weeks in the United States from 2007-January 2012. Many people have these things registered at the homes of family members since you have to provide an address in the United States.
I was born in Germany and have a CRBA too.