Not “interpret” as in translate, but “interpret” as in, “I don’t think that was meant to be interpreted literally.”
Tough one, huh?
[quote=“bob”]Not “interpret” as in translate, but “interpret” as in, “I don’t think that was meant to be interpreted literally.”
Tough one, huh?[/quote]
How about this?
My better third tells me that quan2shi4
詮釋
means to decode or interpret (understand) something. So in your example, assuming the ‘that’ was a sentence, for instance:
我不認為這句話應該這樣地直接被詮釋.
Wo3 bu2 ren4wei2 zhe4 ju4 hua4 ying1gai1 zhe4yang4 zhi2jie1di bei4 quan2shi4.
I don’t think this sentence should (be) thusly directly [passive] interpreted.
God I hope that works. I’m teaching with music quite a lot these days and would like to be able to ask things like: “How would you interpret this line?”
I can ask if there is sarcasm or an innuendo, or if there is a metaphor, but this issue of “interpreting” really cuts to the heart of what language processing is all about, and I couldn’t find a translation anywhere. (Now I wonder if people will understand it - yikes!) I was beginning to think there was no translation of this fundamental concept. Scary.
If you guys are up for another one I’m wondering how to say “relate to,” as in “I can relate to this character” (from a story or movie…). I have “tonGqinQ” but that seems more like “have compassion for,” and it cannot always be said that a person has “compassion” for characters that he can “relate to.” Can it? 
bob, bob, bob:
I love ya to death, and I love anyone who’s always trying to learn new Chinese words, but why in the world wouldn’t you simply explain what “relate to” means using simple English?
= it makes you think of something in your own life, so it has some deep meaning for you.
MUCH easier than translating, and has the benefit that the students get additional comprehensible input in English. Which is kinda the point, right?
I think Ironlady has it right. You really should be explaining these things in simple English instead.
“Interpret” usually means to understand the meaning. “how do you understand this” means what do you think it means. Why not just leave it at that?
Just say it means “I feel the same way” or “I’m similar to him in some ways”, depending on the particular meaning. If you can’t explain the particular meaning in simple English terms, then it’s too fuzzy a concept to teach, and too fuzzy to translate.
Anyway, if you’re teaching English, you should try to spend more of your time explaining things in English, not in Chinese. People here have plenty of local teachers who fill their class time with endless explanations in Chinese of the grammar and so on, and the students end up not getting good practice in English listening comprehension as a result.
[quote=“ironlady”]bob, bob, bob:
I love ya to death, and I love anyone who’s always trying to learn new Chinese words, but why in the world wouldn’t you simply explain what “relate to” means using simple English?
= it makes you think of something in your own life, so it has some deep meaning for you.
MUCH easier than translating, and has the benefit that the students get additional comprehensible input in English. Which is kinda the point, right?[/quote]
I’d been meaning to mention how much I love you all too. Especially you. You, I love. I never make it through a day without thinking of something you tried to teach us knuckleheads.
Dragonbones, well, he is more of a “buddy.” But I love him too I suppose. And have you met that dragonbabe? Wow! Born in taiwan and studies astro-physics or some damn thing, in English!
She thinks I am odd because I tried to demonstrate TPR by asking her “AM I YELLING!!???”
That is OK.
I think you are right about the “relate to” thing as well. Might as well teach that in English.
I had a bright idea this morning. As I seem to be forgetting a lot of English words I’ve decided to make flash cards with all the ones that tend to slip. That way I can review my English and learn Chinese at the same time. This kind of thing amuses me generally and relates somehow to my aspirations of becoming a wise old man rather than just an old man…
I think Ironlady has it right. You really should be explaining these things in simple English instead.
“Interpret” usually means to understand the meaning. “how do you understand this” means what do you think it means. Why not just leave it at that?
Just say it means “I feel the same way” or “I’m similar to him in some ways”, depending on the particular meaning. If you can’t explain the particular meaning in simple English terms, then it’s too fuzzy a concept to teach, and too fuzzy to translate.
Anyway, if you’re teaching English, you should try to spend more of your time explaining things in English, not in Chinese. People here have plenty of local teachers who fill their class time with endless explanations in Chinese of the grammar and so on, and the students end up not getting good practice in English listening comprehension as a result.[/quote]
I am sure you are right about the comprehensible input thing. I am the King of Comprehensible Input. I’m so damned comprehensible even my wife understands me. However, I like to make flash cards as a retention check. What I say is that these are the words (sometimes expressions, sometimes whole sentences) that we are absolutely going to learn. If we can’t remember them we will make a mnemonic (might do that anyway). If that doesn’t work we will make another mnemonic. We will write a story or a poem using the word. I’ll use it in my conversation with you. We’ll mark it in the dictionary. Put it in your notebook. Glue it to my forehead. Perhaps do an etymology search. Use it in an attempt to accomplish some actual goal (can always dream). It should be put in an alphabetical list of all the words you learned or decided you wanted to review starting whenever… mine started two weeks ago, I’ll post it below.
What actually happens in class is that I use English to refer to concepts and questions that a person will encounter when they study a second language, and if I don’t have much success with that I try Chinese. Once the words I think they should know have been taught (I mean really taught) I start saying them in English… Actually I teach them by using them, but you know what I mean. I really “use” them, without that half second drag you do when youre wondering if they understand.
Eventually I hope to become reasonably fluent in discussing language, music and movies. That’s “my” goal. In class I try to use Chinese only when it seems useful to them, ie, when they really can’t get something, and for a quick review. That’s what I “try” to do but of course I’m not a robot. Sometimes I get stuck in the wrong “mode.” If I didn’t use Chinese at all that would never happen. I see what you are saying.
I should say too that I understand the concern people have with teachers talking “about” language all the time. I think one of the biggest problems with that is that people talk about it and get it wrong . Happens all the time. Chinese and Western teachers both do that. I don’t think I do. If I don’t know it well enough to explain clearly and correctly I don’t teach it. There is a lot I don’t teach. What I do teach is what I think are really the basics, though of course the basics are rarely simple. For example this question of interpreting. It’s absolutely fundamental, as fundamental as “understanding” but not exactly the same thing. It’s a useful distinction I think, especially for people studying verse. If I can figure out howtol teach this word effectively, I’ll use it all the time, and later they’ll ecounter it occassionaly if they engage in conversations about about art and language especially. It’s a common word in those contexts. Not suitable for low level students or the “less inspired” shall we say, I realize. Anyway, I’ll teach the bright ones and the less inspired “Oh you got/ took/understood me wrong” as casual alternatives they can use when the interpreting goes wrong in conversation, as it is so often does. 
Here is probably the quintessential sentence type that I want to be able to use:
Dui4buqi3. Ru2guo3 ni3 yong4 an4zhao4zi4mian4 de5 chuan2shi4, ni3 bu4 liao3jie. Zhe4 shi4 feng3ci4 de5 shuo1 fa3. Zhe4 shi4 bi3yu4 de5 shuo1fa5. She ying3she4. Ta1 zai4 kua1zhang1…
(Sorry. If you use literal interpretation you don’t understand clearly. This is sarcasm. This is a metaphor. This is an innuendo. He is exagerating.)
Yes, I’ll teach all those words and a bunch more. How else can we talk about verse?
Yes, that is what we usually call you behind your back. 
For ‘relate to’ I think you can use ‘ren4tong2’, which can also be translated as to identify with.
But I also think this approach is a bad idea. You should not be taking English words and trying to find equivalents in Chinese (unless the word is a noun). Instead, you should wait for the Mandarin word to come to you, as it were, in context. You should then imitate that usage until you have mastered it. At that point, you might think about looking for an English equivalent.
Bingo. I heard that one (honestly). Can I use it now? 
I could never do that. Also, I’m not sure whether you mean I shouldn’t do that to teach English or to learn Chinese. To learn Chinese, I see what you mean, but to teach English? Gotta disagree there.
Here’s the thing…
The one topic that we can be almost 100% guaranteed that our students will talk about is the language itself. Hopefully they will do this with native speakers of English. When they do they will hear things ranging from the mundane, like “I asked you a question,” to the slightly more sophisticated “Oh, I think he was being sarcastic,” to “There seems to be a lot of suggestive dialogue in this movie.”
We are always encouraged to teach vocabulary that students will use but then discouraged from teaching the vocabulary that they could definitely use to understand and discuss the incredibly complicated process they are involved in.
(That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.)
By the way, how would you say “suggestive” as in “suggestive dialogue.” That one has been eating at me all day.
(I would add a wink but actually I want to know.)
You could say, “This dialogue seems to be suggestive. ‘Suggestive’ (s-u-g-g-e-s-t-i-v-e, ‘suggestive’) means that the person is not really talking about sex, but the words he chooses make people think about sex. You know the word “suggest”, right? That means to say something and let the other person decide ‘yes’ or ‘no’ about it. So if the dialogue is ‘suggestive’, the speaker says some words and the other person actually has to decide whether or not the speaker is really talking about sex.”
Seriously, one of the greatest services we can do our English students is to demonstrate to them that fluency in a language is NOT about knowing every word precisely. It’s about being able to make maximum use of the words you do know well. Take a look at the “Simple English” service of the VOA. They discuss very complicated topics within a strictly limited English vocabulary, and do a very good job of it. It’s a great model for students who have “I swallowed a dictionary” disease.
I’m still willing to bet that 500 solid words plus good analytical skills will take you farther in a language than 5000 memorized words. The knowledge of how to cut phrases up to be short and simple, how to systematically tackle each ‘piece’ of the desired meaning, how to circumlocute and describe – these are invaluable skills which are rarely taught. Instead, it’s all about how many words they ‘know’ and how well they score on the grammar test.
<ironlady will now descend from her soapbox, at least temporarily.> 
I understand what you are saying but I’d still like to be able to say “suggestive” in Chinese.
One of my hobbies is to wander around Blockbusters, Asia First and such and pester the staff for a translation of the synopsis on the back cover of DVD jackets. They usually can’t do it so I suggest we try it in Chinese. I speak Chinese “a little.” Chinese people, girls especially, like to say “a little” while making a diminuitive gesture with their thumb and index finger and scrunching up their faces in what might best be described as a sour pout. Anyway, I can imagine wanting to say, gosh that’s a suggestive looking DVD cover, do you think it’s suitable for a devout buddhist such as myself? It’s all good fun and not meant to be in the least bit suggestive etc.
[quote=“bob”]I understand what you are saying but I’d still like to be able to say “suggestive” in Chinese.
It’s all good fun and not meant to be in the least bit suggestive etc.[/quote]
I feel that you just don’t get to do this. The usages of ‘suggestive’ and ‘interpret’ that you are trying to import into Chinese here just do not have easy Chinese equivalents. You will obscure rather than illuminate by trying to force Chinese to say things that you want to say in English. The languages are just too far apart. I don’t think it’s a good idea for learning Chinese or teaching English. You can find lots of things to talk about outside of language (what a boring topic) by just looking at Apple Daily every day. Now learning some useful grammar terms like ‘gerund’ ‘dongmingci’ etc can be very helpful for dealing with students who find learning and understanding grammar useful. But there you have many useful grammar books and a relatively standardized grammr in Chinese for translating these concepts.
Chines speakers run into the same problem when they demand that we tell them what ‘hulingjing’ (fox spirit/lascivious, playful young woman), sajiao, or even good old tongxue are in English.
OK lets say I just wanted to refer to the concept. The jacket has three good looking people in various stages of undress but the title is something bland. What do I say if I want to indicate that the cover seems to me to be implying/ suggesting (suggesting is closer) that there is something naughty inside?
There has to be some way to refer to that situation/ concept, right? It happens all the time. It would be like eskimos not having a word (or phrase) for snow.
bob, just say it simply.
e.g. Ta1 hao3xiang4 xiang3 shuo1 … ([It] seems like he wants to say…)
Thanks for that too. It is what Taiwanese woud say, and it is what I would say if I din’t “think” about it in terms of a English-Chinese translation exercise.
I know what you guys are trying to tell me. Honest.
Sorry, I have to put in a word about this.
There is no such a thing as languages being far apart. “Almost” anything that can be said in one language can be said in another (scientific or technological terminology being the main exceptions to this). If it weren’t possible, translation would not be possible. There might not be a convenient single word that translates to “suggestive” for example but I refuse to accept that it is not possible to translate the concept. Anyway, we have seen in this thread that it is.
Translation might not always be the best method of teaching or learning, but it certainly has a place in both teacher’s and student’s repetoires.
Tonight I had a student who, if IQ tests are any measure, is a genius. I showed her flashcards with a lot of lingusitic terminolgy in Chinese on one side and the English equivalent and PinYin on the other. I let her choose which words she wanted to learn. She choose euphemism, connotation, innuendo, tone of voice, metaphor, analogy, context and a few others. I forget honestly. It wasn’t all completely new vocabulary. Anyway, we discussed those terms, made examples, defined things, and created a couple of good mnemonics. At the end of the class I used the same flashcards to check for retention. She got most of them, and she was dead tired. In the future I will be able to use these words to discuss what people mean and the mechanisms by which they express those meanings. Some people might think that is boring but I can guarantee my student didn’t. If she finds things boring, believe me, she lets me know.
That may be fine for a 1 on 1 class where the student is what we call a “4%er” in language teaching terms – the student who could sit down with a stack of discarded textbooks from the 1960s and learn a language on her own – but if you try that with a class, you’ll get the “deer in the headlights” look. Meaning you have failed with comprehensible input. You’ve abandoned teaching narrow and deep – the way YOU want to be taught Chinese – and gone back to the “cover it all” approach.
I can memorize a list of 50 or 100 technical terms overnight for a conference, and use them the next day or two. But a week later, I won’t really know those words.
“Teach a man to fish” and all that. But instead of giving him a catalog of lures, teach him how fish behave. Teach the student how to express 99% of his meaning using 5% of the vocabulary available in the language.