How many people here can read and write Chinese characters?

I have seen very very few able to read and write Chinese characters even when there have been many people learning Chinese. How many of them are there in the whole West. I have known that even professors in the Universities in the west can speak and listen very well but can’t read and write.

Am I right?

I don’t know.

If it is yes, how do you learn Chinese characters?

If it is no, why?

I have to edit this post so that there will be no misunderstanding.

If possible, a westerner who claims to be able to read and write please write a review of 100 Chinese characters to this paper and post it here.

bbs.people.com.cn/bbs/ReadFile?w … &typeid=17

I want to make sure. If you are Chinese in the west or a professional translator, please keep away.

I can read, but I can’t write (much). I learned to read through television subtitles, flashcards, KTV and (haphazard) self-study.

No. It’s been proved genetically impossible :whistle:

Seriously, how? By studying their butts off, like anyone else learning a foreign language. Reasons - interest, work, marriage, travel, survival…

Well where do you teach ? Try teaching at a university outside Taiwan. I was one of around two hundred people to graduate with Chinese language degrees in England alone in 1995 who can write Chinese. The numbers for America are huge, as for Europe. Never mind Australia.

I hope you’re not one of these people who believes language learning ability is linked to race.

No. It’s been proved genetically impossible :whistle:

Seriously, how? By studying their butts off, like anyone else learning a foreign language. Reasons - interest, work, marriage, travel, survival…[/quote]

No, I don’t mean to downlook any people.

I just hoep to see people’s opinion from both sides.

If you succede in learning characters, how do you make it?

If not, what is your lesson from your failure.

Right now, I am doing a research on it.

It seems that there are really few Caucasians who can read and write Chinese characters.

Well, the entire “caucasian” portion of the Chinese to English translation industry - people like myself and ironlady - for one. And the non-Chinese from this list too.

Because a large number of people aren’t interested in learning to read and write at first, and focus more on speaking and listening.

The same as I learnt everything else I know - study, practice, exposure, and desire. On top of that there was also not taking to heart people who try and imply that Whitey is somehow incapable of comprehending the glory of the Chinese language.

That’s how I do it, too. I was also required to write during my 3 months at shi da. My handwriting is terrible in English, let alone Chinese. Besides, beyond filling in the occasional form, I just don’t need to write. If I can read them, then I can type them.

[quote=“hexuan”]Well where do you teach ? Try teaching at a university outside Taiwan. I was one of around two hundred people to graduate with Chinese language degrees in England alone in 1995 who can write Chinese. The numbers for America are huge, as for Europe. Never mind Australia.

I hope you’re not one of these people who believes language learning ability is linked to race.[/quote]

I use the term Caucasian because now there have been quite a Chinese in the western world.

If you can write Chinese, may I ask one thing?

[quote]I have seen very very few even when there have been many people learning Chinese.

Am I right?

I don’t know.

If it is yes, why? [/quote]

Firstly, having a Chinese degree from overseas is about as useful as having an English degree here in Taiwan. People usually don’t have the opportunity to practice their foreign languages and they lose it eventually.

Furthermore, it is my opinion that, everything being equal, it is much harder to maintain the same level of fluency and mastery of the Chinese language than English. I have first-hand experience with this, I immigrated to Australia when I was ten, and now that I am 23, I have almost completely forgotten how to write in Chinese.

Lastly, foreigners for the most part do not have the same motivations to learn Chinese as, say, Taiwanese who learn English.

English to most Taiwanese is seen as something prestigeous, it is the ticket to better jobs, and a better life. In the past you would see Taiwanese, and people from other Asian countries leaving their countries in droves to English-speaking countries in search of a better life for themselves and/or their families.

In contrast, most foreigners would probably find Chinese to be an interesting, exotic language - something that’s nice to know, perhaps even useful… but hardly life changing. Most foreigners here are expats, perhaps staying here for a few years before they leave, comparatively very few foreigners actually settle down in Taiwan. A lot of foreigners here are also English teachers, so even their work environment doesn’t require them to speak much Chinese.

All in all, very few foreigners have the need and motivation to really master the Chinese language. For most people they only need to know enough Chinese to get by.

Reading: Just read alot, newspapers, flash cards, TV subtitles… whatever.

Writing: Practice writing the character over and over, and memorise every stroke. I can’t be bothered doing this, so I can’t write much. :blush:

All in all, very few foreigners have the need and motivation to really master the Chinese language. For most people they only need to know enough Chinese to get by.

This is the most important part in this case.

Thantks very much.

Most of the Filipina and Indonesian guestworkers I’ve met have been considerably more fluent in spoken Chinese than most of the Westerners I’ve met. Why? Because they have no choice - they have to master a certain level of spoken Chinese in order to do their jobs as servants to Chinese families, or understand what their Chinese laoban/coworkers say to them at the factory. It’s a simple matter of motivation. Hardly any I’ve met can read or write any Chinese - because that’s not necessary for their jobs. Merely speaking Chinese at a basic level is good enough for most foreigners.

You are a teacher. If your students can’t read and write Chinese…perhaps it is partly your problem. I’m not sure why you think you need this information and I’m equally unsure about how you intend to act on the conclusions that you have drawn…

I totally agree with Issac. I think he has said it perfectly.

I have taken the odd stab at learning Chinese characters and have concluded that they are just too idiotic for me to consider. But then I am in favor of simplifying the spelling of English too. The benefits of a phonetic spelling system are just too important and too numerous to ignore. I was in a restaraunt the other day and they had a menu in traditional Chinese characters, English and Roma Pinyin! Wow was that nice. I saw what I wanted in English, read the Pinyin, pronounced it and they took my order. Personally I hope to see way more Pinyin everywhere. I have learned a few characters that are really useful to me and that feels pretty great. Still though I hate Chinese characters. They are like this huge extra complication and barrier in a life already too full of complications and barriers.

I’m the opposite of Bob. I love Chinese characters. I don’t think I would have chosen to study Chinese if it was written in pinyin. I can read more Chinese than I can speak, but I think that’s because I just don’t get alot of speaking practice. That said, a pinyin accompaniment would be a godsend!

However, I’m not quite sure what this has to do with me being a whitey. How many people of non-Asian descent even study Chinese? And I know that at US and Australian universities, if you are studying Chinese you have to learn characters.

I’m confused as to how a teacher of chinese doesn’t know what level his or her students are BEFORE the class starts…

When I was doing graduate study in Nanjing with a bunch of other Americans, our professor’s tendency to forget characters was a running joke in one of our classes. Since he almost exclusiely writes on a computer, he’s forgotten how to write a lot of the more obscure characters. About once a week, this 40-something Chinese guy be writing something on the board, get to some character he didn’t know, and would have one of the 23-year old white Americans come up and write it for him. He was able to joke about it, so it was all good.

Genetically unable to write Chinese my ass.

That being said, I’m finding myself in the same boat. I haven’t written too many characters by hand since college, so my own written ability has gone down the crapper as well.

What exactly does your question mean? Are you wondering if we are intellectually capable of it? The answer to that is yes - the reason you don’t meet many who can is because there aren’t many who want to be able to read and write Chinese with enough desire to put in the time necessary. The other problem is that it is still not a commonly taught language, in particular before university.
Another problem is that the complexities of the writing system mean that a lot of time is required to learn to read Chinese. Foreigners who are only planning to be here a couple of years often decide that it’s not worth it to start studying written Chinese.
Your question sounds like you think that language ability is based on race - I hope I just misunderstood your meaning, because it obviously isn’t.

the high school i graduated from in the american midwest (95% caucasian) has had chinese classes for at least 30 years. the guys who selected chinese to fulfill their foreign language requirement were/are all able to express themselves in written/spoken chinese.

You know what the scariest thing about this conversation is?

Look at this guy Shengmar’s location - UK. Occupation - teacher. I hope to every available deity that he’s not teaching at a university, or each and every one of those students is utterly screwed.

[quote=“Tetsuo”]You know what the scariest thing about this conversation is?

Look at this guy Shengmar’s location - UK. Occupation - teacher. I hope to every available deity that he’s not teaching at a university, or each and every one of those students is utterly screwed.[/quote]

is the title of my post, Man.

I have to reemphasize my point. I use the term Caucasian instead of westerners because most of Chinese in the west just refuse to admit they are Chinese because they grow up there. If I use westerners, this term will cover the Chinese in the west who can read and write Chinese and make my question meaningless as there have been quite a lot of Chinese in the West now.

I am thinking of this:

What is the most efficient way of helping western adults to learn the Chinese characters because there will be a great need to learn characters in the near future as China’s economy is getting really strong now?

The Chinese characters are composed of radicals. It is totally different from English, or any Indo-Euro languages.

Using the way that the Chinese use to teach a foreign adults is too difficult or actually a mission impossbile , which I think has been a fact.

I will reply other posts later. I must reply this first hoping it won’t make more misconception.