…
Can I ask what country you’re from?
I wouldnt let anyone try and pull the “this is how we do things here.” routine. They are cynically playing on your foreignness. My gf works up to nine or ten hours for a quarter of my pay. So i do seventy to eighty percent of the cleaning. I try and make it fun by listening to charlie parker and doing pushups every now and then.
You married your husband, not his inlaws. Dont put up with this low intensity bullying.
You need to have a good word with your husband.
At the very least your sister-in-law and mother are conspiring to get you to do more work over the weekend and possibly other times as well. I am not a female, but I can relate as the first year I spent in Taiwan (with my in-laws - well back then they were just the parents of my girlfriend), I was put through a lot of stuff. I was mopping the floor at least twice a week, as well as doing the dishes most days and other stuff. The amount of work reduced a lot when I was married.
Anyway - I have two possible solutions:
- Do such an awful job that they don’t want you to do it - go for maximum impact, but pretend your trying your best:
- take an unreasonable amount of time to do the jobs (you can stress that you’ve never done it in your life before). I would consider trying to make the chores last at least half a day (if you can) and inconvenience every person in the house while you do it.
- Make a mess - use the wrong products in the wrong places and miss lots of spots. Spill lots of stuff. Feel free to wreck some of your lovely sister-in-laws stuff (after all you’re just trying to get closer to her
). - Keep asking your mother-in-law if you did it right and your sister-in-law. You can really annoy them this way.
- When your husband asks you to do ANYTHING - you can’t because you’re too tired… you work all week and have to clean the house - that’s two jobs already. He wants to go for a meal - no, go for a movie - no, go anywhere - no. Hopefully this will pressure him into getting you to stop doing the chores.
- Make a really big point of how much time this is taking and how much you hate life in Taiwan (on the phone to your parents/friends/relatives in front of him or any other English speakers in the house). You can also write all over Facebook if your husband is on it.
- Move to an apartment with your husband. This will solve a lot of problems.
One point of interest is that despite having to do chores, when my kids were born - the in-laws REALLY helped out a lot. In most western families they don’t help out that much, but if we’re having a bad night sleep - we just take the baby to the mother-in-laws room and we have a good night’s sleep. The same when we want to go out. So it can all be swings and roundabouts. But still - you don’t want or need to be doing all the chores (unless you’re going for my method number 1).
There are very different expectations for son-in-laws and daughter-in-laws. A daughter-in-law traditionally married into the family and became part of it. Thus the OP did marry his in laws in addition to her husband. These expectations are especially strong for the wife of the eldest son.
At the same time, I don’t think anyone expects her to clean the entire house to to bottom on weekdays if she is at work all day. Cleaning the house on the weekend might be a nice halfway gesture although it’s not really what I would want to do on the weekend after working all week!
You might try contacting the Pingtung dept. of Social Services and see if you can get some counseling on your questions.
900屏東市自由路527號‧服務時間: 周一至周五08:00~12:00 13:30~17:30‧電話： (08)732-0415
527 Ziyou Rd. Pingdong City. (08)732-0415. They have a service center for foreign spouses and should be able to refer you to someone to talk to about these very common issues.
See above. I don’t think so.
Absolutely not. Taiwanese women are constantly negotiating these issues. It is the No. 1 marriage problem for most women in Taiwan, foreign or not.
(3) If you were me, will you do it even you know that your body can't take it... No.
Traditionally yes, but probably not now. There are expectations that you will have special responsibilities but these should be negotiated on basis of mutual respect. They want you and their son to live with them. They don’t want to piss you off. They know you work. But there are the traditional expectations about how a Taiwanese family works (based on free female labor…)
Don’t do what? If you don’t reach a mutual understanding with the help of your husband, you could be risking a war between your inlaws and you. Many women in this situation complain that the husband usually passively sides with his parents. Whatever you do, don’t force your husband to choose sides.
They don’t seem to be asking anything. Your sister in law is telling you. You need to verify their expectations. If you can’t do that, your husband can. Ask him what they expect and what he thinks is reasonable.
Very possibly. Most married women in Taiwan want this too but this is a major source of conflict in the common case where the parents expect at least the eldest son to live at home and the eldest son believes it his duty to do so. If you express this desire too soon or without justification, your may be seen by all sides as being ‘selfish.’ This is a very sensitive issue–much more than cleaning. Be careful on this one.
I’ve been in far too many taiwanese homes and NONE is really clean and pristine. Most are really filthy. Lots of women here don’t even lift a finger to clean the bathroom. The standards of cleanliness here are very relaxed so don’t buy this bullshit that people here clean the house everyday. Many women here hire a person to clean the home once a week or make the husbands, kids clean the house.
Your sister-in-law is going a bit overboard with this cleaning top to bottom every single day nonsense. They are just trying to mold you into a traditional housewife with loads of passive aggressive behavior. Your new in-laws will most definitely resent you if you don’t follow their lead. They would be jealous of any type of independent behavior. It’s up to you on how to respond. Life with in-laws is not easy and certainly working 8 hrs and then having to cook and clean for the whole family sucks.
Husbands/wives & In-laws, like roommates, need to communicate over what will or won’t get done in the house-- otherwise resentment builds. Are you paying rent? My 2 cents is that if you are the only one working then cleaning on a weekend is fine.
Maybe you can suggest splitting the house up for cleaning responsibilities. Or splurge and hire a maid to come in 2-3 times a week if you seriously hate to clean and can afford it. (FYI–your in-laws would probably believe it’s a waste of money and also would resent you for that)
I would look to move out ASAP if you are looking for a non-traditional household.
What your post lacks is what was your husband’s response to your suggestion to only cleaning weekends and moving out?
Since you are working full-time, I would agree that it is unrealistic to expect you to clean the pad every single day. Yes, traditionally in a Taiwanese household, the woman stays home and keeps the house clean and makes sure that dinner is ready when the husband gets home–BUT your husband is NOT working so you should bring up the fact that your husband is not working. However, this may be seen as a slap to the face and cause him to “lose face” as well, so I would tread carefully. Maybe bring this little nugget up with your sister in law before the mother in law. Once you diss old people, its forever and they will take that with them to their graves. Like someone said, hire a maid to do the cleaning. If they ask you why you hired a maid to do the cleaning, just simply say you don’t have the time to do the cleaning yourself after you get home from work. Offer an ultimatum that you would gladly stay in and keep the house nice and tidy every day, but on the flipside, you would be forced to stop working.
Marrying the eldest son can be very troublesome as they can often be mistaken for being a glorified maid. But usually the eldest son has his house in order and is the clear breadwinner. In your situation, your husband isn’t even working! So I do believe you have some leverage here, since you are the one bringing in the money…
Let me point something. One of the meanings of independent is: not dependent, as not requiring or relying on others (as for care or livelihood)
In this light, if you don’t know how to cook or do other house chores, you’re not independent, you’re VERY dependent. You NEED someone to cook for you or you’ll starve (eating outside counts as having someone to cook for you), you need someone to do the other house chores because you don’t want to (you think it’s below your level) or you don’t have a clue on how to, or both. You might want to reevaluate your priorities, since you might be in a good moment, but if hard times came, you wouldn’t be able of take care of yourself.
That said:
If you’re living with your in-laws, i find it normal that they expect you to help with the house. However, since you’re working and your husband isn’t, it would be normal of you to expect that your husband also helped with the house chores. I’d say that, since he has more available time than you, he should help more than you. I would also find normal that, since your in-laws are also living in the same house, they would assume a part of the house chores as well (unless they are sick or not able to). Of course, that’s what my education and ubbringing tell me. At my home, everyone did everything. Sometimes you would barter some chores for others, for example: the old “I cook if you wash dishes” thing.
My thoughts is that you should talk to your husband and get him to really help at home. Being old-fashioned, it’s entirely possible that your husband has never had to do house chores either, his mother doing them instead. If he tries to help at home, it’s also possible that his mother ends up doing his part and then she’ll be pissed at you for “having his son do your job”. In that case, your husband needs to personally do his part and explain to his parents why he has to do that (he’s not working, he has more time than you).
In the weekends, since you’re both at home, you should both help with the chores, distributing them between the both of you, or sharing them, as you wish.
And notice that I always say “help”, since I consider that if your in-laws are not disabled, they should also help. After all, all of you live there. If, as the sister in law says, you have to do everything, and they (including your husband) aren’t helping, then talk with your husband. Either he helps, or he can start looking for a job to help paying for a rent, and you both move out. You can get the marriage papers, and ask them to point the part of the contract where you’re supposed to do everything while your husband and your in-laws are chilling and doing nothing.
Another practical point: if the four of you share the chores you’ll finish much faster, which is specially useful on weekends.
Different strokes for different folks…
Really, try to move out. Separate fences create good neighbors. This scenario of marrying into a family, having mother-in-law PLUS sister-in-law bullying the newbie member of the family is so old and replayed. Do you wonder why many modern taiwanese women work and try to not live with the in-laws? This kind of bullying is so old that most housewives have a tale or two about their mothers-in-law + sisters-in-law bullying.
Here the in-laws try to force their new daughter-in-law into doing all the house chores, or they force the new son-in-law to shoulder most of the household bills. Living separately is really the best solution.
My experience is that many middle class Taiwanese are extremely clean. I think the standards in different households can be very different.
[quote=“robert the bruce”]Really, try to move out. Separate fences create good neighbors. This scenario of marrying into a family, having mother-in-law PLUS sister-in-law bullying the newbie member of the family is so old and replayed. Do you wonder why many modern taiwanese women work and try to not live with the in-laws? This kind of bullying is so old that most housewives have a tale or two about their mothers-in-law + sisters-in-law bullying.
Here the in-laws try to force their new daughter-in-law into doing all the house chores, or they force the new son-in-law to shoulder most of the household bills. Living separately is really the best solution.[/quote]
Yes it may be, but it is far easier for a man to move out. She is risking a major conflict with her husband on this one.
I think she needs independent advice but not exclusively from foreign men or from her sister-in-law. Her husband, social services (see above), and non-relative Taiwanese women are probably her best bets for good advice on how to handle this sensitive situation.
[quote=“Blaquesmith”]Let me point something. One of the meanings of independent is: not dependent, as not requiring or relying on others (as for care or livelihood)
In this light, if you don’t know how to cook or do other house chores, you’re not independent, you’re VERY dependent. You NEED someone to cook for you or you’ll starve (eating outside counts as having someone to cook for you), you need someone to do the other house chores because you don’t want to (you think it’s below your level) or you don’t have a clue on how to, or both. You might want to reevaluate your priorities, since you might be in a good moment, but if hard times came, you wouldn’t be able of take care of yourself.
That said:
If you’re living with your in-laws, I find it normal that they expect you to help with the house. However, since you’re working and your husband isn’t, it would be normal of you to expect that your husband also helped with the house chores. I’d say that, since he has more available time than you, he should help more than you. I would also find normal that, since your in-laws are also living in the same house, they would assume a part of the house chores as well (unless they are sick or not able to). Of course, that’s what my education and ubbringing tell me. At my home, everyone did everything. Sometimes you would barter some chores for others, for example: the old “I cook if you wash dishes” thing.
My thoughts is that you should talk to your husband and get him to really help at home. Being old-fashioned, it’s entirely possible that your husband has never had to do house chores either, his mother doing them instead. If he tries to help at home, it’s also possible that his mother ends up doing his part and then she’ll be pissed at you for “having his son do your job”. In that case, your husband needs to personally do his part and explain to his parents why he has to do that (he’s not working, he has more time than you).
In the weekends, since you’re both at home, you should both help with the chores, distributing them between the both of you, or sharing them, as you wish.
And notice that I always say “help”, since I consider that if your in-laws are not disabled, they should also help. After all, all of you live there. If, as the sister in law says, you have to do everything, and they (including your husband) aren’t helping, then talk with your husband. Either he helps, or he can start looking for a job to help paying for a rent, and you both move out. You can get the marriage papers, and ask them to point the part of the contract where you’re supposed to do everything while your husband and your in-laws are chilling and doing nothing.
Another practical point: if the four of you share the chores you’ll finish much faster, which is specially useful on weekends.[/quote]
This is true. One thing to consider though. We don’t know your husband, but we know he is the eldest son. He has probably never lifted a finger to do any chores in the past, so asking or expecting the “prince” to do any womanly household chores would probably cause him to “lose face”. I suggest bringing this up with him in a private conversation. He should help out and do the cleaning during the week while you are at work and also act as a buffer between you and your SIL and MIL because with you not doing the household chores, you will already be building tension with them, not to mention the mother in law will be seeing her eldest son doing what you should be doing to begin with. Ask him to explain to her that you cannot be asked to do all the cleaning and cooking while you are also working a fulltime M-F job. If he does not try to deflect the heat off you, then you are in a world of trouble…
As far as being independent, I disagree. Just because someone eats out all the time and doesnt cook or hires someone to clean does not mean they are not independent. Being independent means you are not dependent on your parents or family. If you are buying your own food or you are paying the maid with your own hard earned money, you are independent. Are you any more independent if you cook your own food? Did you kill and slaughter the cow yourself? Did you grow your own vegetables? Independent simply means you are supporting yourself.
That being said–are you completely independent? From what I read, you are living “with” your husband/inlaws, so technically…NO, you are not independent because of that simple fact that YOU are living with THEM.
Good advice from lefty. I would ask him IF this is something he can help out with without upsetting his mother. Unfortunately, some mothers are not going to be happy seeing their eldest son doing ‘woman work’ if they think this is the daughter in law’s job. Some other solution may be necessary. But I think this kind of stereotypical old school MIL is less common today. Most people understand that new arrangements have to be made to accommodate working women.
[quote=“robert the bruce”]Really, try to move out. Separate fences create good neighbors. This scenario of marrying into a family, having mother-in-law PLUS sister-in-law bullying the newbie member of the family is so old and replayed. Do you wonder why many modern taiwanese women work and try to not live with the in-laws? This kind of bullying is so old that most housewives have a tale or two about their mothers-in-law + sisters-in-law bullying.
Here the in-laws try to force their new daughter-in-law into doing all the house chores, or they force the new son-in-law to shoulder most of the household bills. Living separately is really the best solution.[/quote]
This is not her decision. Her husband has to man up and make that decision. Who knows the family situation–maybe the inlaws are sick and need to stay with them. The bottom line is, YOU married into HIS family and therefore, there are certain expectations that come with being married to the eldest son. Like I said, sometimes the wife of the eldest son, or any son, can be compared to a glorified maid.
One thing that is often forgotten in discussions of Taiwan’s “traditions” is that women, and daughters in law in particular, being expected to do the bulk of household chores was traditional not only in Taiwan but was also traditional in much of the Western world until not too long ago. Thankfully, that tradition has changed in most modern countries as their economies and women’s roles in them have evolved.
All societies are in transition all the time, and Taiwan’s transition in this area has come a bit slower historically, but it is well underway. Your mother and law and sister in law should embrace this positive development instead of taking advantage of you just because they think they can, based on obsolete traditions. All of you should come up with an equitable division of outside work and household chores (or mix thereof) to make the living as light and happy as possible for all members of the household.
It really depends on what kind of family it is. If they are the traditional, old school Taiwanese family, then the woman will always be expected to cook and clean and be the “glorified maid”. If thats the case, then I would suggest that you stop working and focusing your time on fulfilling those duties 100%. Because technically, in a traditional household, the woman is NOT expected to work because she has to spend all her time keeping the house nice and clean and preparing the food. This is considered a fulltime job in itself. But your situation is different because your husband is NOT working. I don’t know the family situation or whether or not you HAVE to work. Maybe the family has money saved up and can live off that before your husband starts working. But if they expect you to work fulltime AND fulfill the glorified maid duties, that is just unrealistic and silly. If it comes down to it, you may need to bring up the fact that your husband is in fact NOT working and that you simply do not have the time or energy to “BE THE MAN OF THE HOUSE”.
…this may cause some trouble, so only use that as a last resort. 
[quote=“Rotalsnart”]One thing that is often forgotten in discussions of Taiwan’s “traditions” is that women, and daughters in law in particular, being expected to do the bulk of household chores was traditional not only in Taiwan but was also traditional in much of the Western world until not too long ago. Thankfully, that tradition has changed in most modern countries as their economies and women’s roles in them have evolved.
All societies are in transition all the time, and Taiwan’s transition in this area has come a bit slower historically, but it is well underway. Your mother and law and sister in law should embrace this positive development instead of taking advantage of you just because they think they can, based on obsolete traditions. All of you should come up with an equitable division of outside work and household chores (or mix thereof) to make the living as light and happy as possible for all members of the household.[/quote]
Good points. Taiwanese society is changing and people are creating equitable solutions to not so new realities (women working) and lingering expectations.
I sympathize with the OP. Must be difficult.
I don’t understand how these situations arise, though. I assume that the OP is not Taiwanese, and that her husband and in-laws are aware of her foreign-ness. I’m not being snide. I have a point. And that is that surely they all understand that coming from somewhere other than Taiwan, OP has a different culture and a different way of doing things.
My in-laws are old school… and old. My FIL is 92 and MIL is 82. They are set in their ways… their old ways. Nonetheless, my wife has for the past 30 years run interference for me and has and still does remind her folks that I am not Chinese/Taiwanese. I don’t do all the things they do.
Not saying that I never compromise or do some things that I don’t really want to do. But, My in-laws understand that I’m… different.
OP’s situation is different from and more problematic than mine in that OP is a woman married to the eldest son. But, my wife is the eldest daughter to parents who have no son. Yes, its still different and more trouble for the OP. But, and here’s my point… OP’s husband surely knows that OP is not Taiwanese and understands that OP’s culture is different from his parents’ culture. OP’s husband should be stepping up… in fact, he should have been preparing his parents for a long time, now, going back to the time he started dating and getting serious with OP.
OP, you need to speak with your husband. He has to be your partner.