The Taiwanese aren’t thinking about meaning when speaking/reading street names. Many of the standard street names in Taiwan come from stuff like Sanmin Zhuyui (the Three Principles of the People) and other KMT related stuff. But it doesn’t mean you visualize these concepts when you pronounce them anymore than you visualize a pool of livers when you say Liverpool. 
(and yes I know Liverpool doesn’t actually mean that).
Well, it does have other purposes, such as providing addresses for international mailing, shipping and business dealings[/quote]
In these days of Unicode and email, I don’t see why addresses can’t be printed in the correct language even by non-native speakers (that’s what I ask family/colleagues to do if they need to send me anything). After all, in that case you don’t really care how it’s pronounced.
Hmm, fair enough. Still, if you’re a newsreader for example, it would be nice to only have to learn Pinyin (which is extremely easy) rather than the “better” systems made up by Taiwanese pen-pushers.
Well, it does have other purposes, such as providing addresses for international mailing, shipping and business dealings, as well as place names for non-tourist-oriented articles, maps, books, papers etc.[/quote]
That’s true…
But the translation need only be done at central post offices. Every piece of mail I’ve ever received has Chinese written next to the address.
When I first came here, I’d loose mail and had to get a PO Box. Now, no matter what system I use, Even Bastardizations, they get here. Just include the proper zip code.
I agree it should all be Standard Pinyin. No exceptions. I don’t like pronouncing Taipei wrong… But I do. It’s stuck in my head. I don’t know why Taiwan got the guts at the time the Chinese forced us to stop saying Peking.
When the local think they are doing a good deed by pronouncing certain cities as Cow Shung or Jee Lung I have to think a bit before I realize what they are talking about. I don’t let my Students change the pronunciation save the elimination of tones.
[quote=“finley”]
In these days of Unicode and email, I don’t see why addresses can’t be printed in the correct language even by non-native speakers (that’s what I ask family/colleagues to do if they need to send me anything). After all, in that case you don’t really care how it’s pronounced.[/quote]
But if the non Chinese Speaker is sending a letter and he doesn’t have the already printed (entered) address to paste on the label, he still needs a reliable way to enter the text. For me…it’s ㄅㄆㄇ and for the other members who try to read in type they use Pinyin.
The computer still needs a standard method (usually phonics based) to enter the text to provide you with the needed character.
He could, since all cities share similar street names, he could copy and paste the address from bits and pieces of other addresses he find on the web. But even to do that you would assume the originator of the letter can read Chinese. Even that $5.00 an hour worker who answers the phones in the mail order house. … Let’s not talk about homonyms for people who think they can convert pinyin into true Chinese…
Stick to Pinyin for the outside world.
Yes, but I’ve seen too many cases in which programs and websites render characters with the wrong encoding, resulting in things that may look like ordinary Chinese to the untrained eye but which are gibberish to the Chinese reader. For instance, I’m not familiar with Arabic, and if someone posted an Arabic address somewhere via electronic media, it could end up being gibberish to an Arabic speaker, but I’d be none the wiser…
Indeed. I advocate Hanyu Pinyin as the universal standard (but I would still be fine with optional exceptions for major legacy names like Taipei and Sun Yat-sen).
In any case, like it or not, Wade-Giles is a legacy spelling system (allowing the reader access to older ink-and-paper books). Tongyong should flushed down the toilet of history.
Agreed.
Agreed.[/quote]
Yep. Horrible system.
[quote=“Icon”]For the love of God:
Don’t give them any more weird ideas!
Think of us poor translators, please. Don’t make our lives harder than they already are. 
[/quote]
Sorry Icon, but I love crazy Chinese-English and i think there should be more of it. So do tourists. I remember laughing until our heads ached the last time i had visitors when we read the instructions on a flying butterfly toy (of which i can only remember a small part): ‘If you will heart attack or you psycho can not use’.
So I think the OP’s idea could serve to re-invigorate this and i’m all for it. I have noticed a cleaning up of Chinese-English translation over the years and to be honest, it saddens me.
[quote=“dulan drift”]Sorry Icon, but I love crazy Chinese-English and i think there should be more of it. So do tourists. I remember laughing until our heads ached the last time i had visitors when we read the instructions on a flying butterfly toy (of which i can only remember a small part): ‘If you will heart attack or you psycho can not use’.
So I think the OP’s idea could serve to re-invigorate this and i’m all for it. I have noticed a cleaning up of Chinese-English translation over the years and to be honest, it saddens me.[/quote]
I do miss the intersection in Taipei where Jianguo Rd. was spelled 4 different ways (Chienkwo, Chienkuo, Chienkow and Kienkow), depending on which corner of the street you were standing on. I prefer consistency, but don’t you worry, Chinglish is here to stay. They even have it in Hong Kong, which had been controlled by the Brits for 150 years.
[quote=“the bear”][quote=“Taiwan_Student”]
However, the idea of understanding and thinking of the places in their translated names is fine because that is what the Chinese themselves are thinking… I’d guess.
[/quote]
The Taiwanese aren’t thinking about meaning when speaking/reading street names. Many of the standard street names in Taiwan come from stuff like Sanmin Zhuyui (the Three Principles of the People) and other KMT related stuff. But it doesn’t mean you visualize these concepts when you pronounce them anymore than you visualize a pool of livers when you say Liverpool. 
(and yes I know Liverpool doesn’t actually mean that).[/quote]
This is a good point that bears repeating, because people who are new to the Chinese language tend to presume the opposite and miss sight of the forest for the trees.
[quote=“Taiwan_Student”][quote=“finley”]
In these days of Unicode and email, I don’t see why addresses can’t be printed in the correct language even by non-native speakers (that’s what I ask family/colleagues to do if they need to send me anything). After all, in that case you don’t really care how it’s pronounced.[/quote]
But if the non Chinese Speaker is sending a letter and he doesn’t have the already printed (entered) address to paste on the label, he still needs a reliable way to enter the text. For me…it’s ㄅㄆㄇ and for the other members who try to read in type they use Pinyin.
The computer still needs a standard method (usually phonics based) to enter the text to provide you with the needed character.
He could, since all cities share similar street names, he could copy and paste the address from bits and pieces of other addresses he find on the web. But even to do that you would assume the originator of the letter can read Chinese. Even that $5.00 an hour worker who answers the phones in the mail order house. … Let’s not talk about homonyms for people who think they can convert pinyin into true Chinese…
Stick to Pinyin for the outside world.[/quote]
It’s not that hard. The mailer enters the information in Pinyin (or any bastardization that you choose) at their PO and they manually put an additional label with the pinyin/other and Chinese on the outside of the box. Once my package has made it to Taiwan (and not China or Thailand) I’m only concerned about the dipshit mailman leaving it with a friendly neighbor.
[quote=“Rotalsnart”][quote=“the bear”][quote=“Taiwan_Student”]
However, the idea of understanding and thinking of the places in their translated names is fine because that is what the Chinese themselves are thinking… I’d guess.
[/quote]
The Taiwanese aren’t thinking about meaning when speaking/reading street names. Many of the standard street names in Taiwan come from stuff like Sanmin Zhuyui (the Three Principles of the People) and other KMT related stuff. But it doesn’t mean you visualize these concepts when you pronounce them anymore than you visualize a pool of livers when you say Liverpool. (and yes I know Liverpool doesn’t actually mean that).[/quote]
This is a good point that bears repeating, because people who are new to the Chinese language tend to presume the opposite and miss sight of the forest for the trees.[/quote]
Especially if standing on 林森北路 (Linsen N. Rd). :roflmao: (bilingual puns, gotta love 'em)
This is a good point that bears repeating, because people who are new to the Chinese language tend to presume the opposite and miss sight of the forest for the trees.[/quote]
Reminds me of an American guy I met who criticized various countries for naming places after their national leaders, forgetting that the US capital is Washington, and that practically every city and town has a Washington Street.
This is a good point that bears repeating, because people who are new to the Chinese language tend to presume the opposite and miss sight of the forest for the trees.[/quote]
Reminds me of an American guy I met who criticized various countries for naming places after their national leaders, forgetting that the US capital is Washington, and that practically every city and town has a Washington Street.[/quote]
But those street names were meant to have their meanings remembered. That is why the KMT came in and took perfectly good street names and deleted them form the public mind and replaced them with these standardized names. They were meant to be remembered with every breath and voice.
What! No pool of Livers in Liverpool! I really wanted to see that pool of Livers… What a rip! Seriously, names and words are pretty important to me. I can’t imagine living on a street or in a town and not know the history as to why such and such a place was named. But you got a point… I really annoyed the heck out of my family and friends here to get the real story on how and why the village I live in now was named. Interesting story too. People here don’t care about history.