How to eat shit?
How to meet people?
How to buy grass?
Where to find sweetbreads?
I see threads with this title all of the time and at first I just thought that it was a Tealit thing. but I see it from time to time here too.
I’m not trying to be an arsehole- I just want to have it clear in my mind even though I will never ask questions in that format.
Is this an acceptable way to form a question? I instincively feel that it is both wrong and ugly. I correct my students when they ask "How to write/do?’ because I feel that it is Chinglish.
How does one eat shit?
How do I eat shit?
How do you eat shit
Where can I find sweetbreads?
[quote=“Southpaw”]How to eat shit?
How to meet people?
How to buy grass?
Where to find sweetbreads?
I see threads with this title all of the time and at first I just thought that it was a Tealit thing. but I see it from time to time here too.
I’m not trying to be an arsehole- I just want to have it clear in my mind even though I will never ask questions in that format.
Is this an acceptable way to form a question? I instincively feel that it is both wrong and ugly. I correct my students when they ask "How to write/do?’ because I feel that it is Chinglish.
How does one eat shit?
How do I eat shit?
How do you eat shit
Where can I find sweetbreads?
Surely this way is better? No?[/quote]
This is what you wake up with? Where to buy snooze alarm? Grab some more sleep man…you are way too pedantic for Saturday morn.
[quote=“Southpaw”]How to eat shit?
How to meet people?
How to buy grass?
Where to find sweetbreads?
I see threads with this title all of the time and at first I just thought that it was a Tealit thing. but I see it from time to time here too.
I’m not trying to be an arsehole- I just want to have it clear in my mind even though I will never ask questions in that format.
Is this an acceptable way to form a question? I instincively feel that it is both wrong and ugly. I correct my students when they ask "How to write/do?’ because I feel that it is Chinglish.
How does one eat shit?
How do I eat shit?
How do you eat shit
Where can I find sweetbreads?
I agree with Chris - it’s acceptable English “shorthand”. I actually find I have this problem when speaking or writing to people who aren’t native English speakers - I tend to be over proper in my use of language so as not to confuse them. English really plays fast and loose with a lot of its so-called rules when it comes to actual daily usage, and this is one of those cases. The difference is that native English speakers know the difference between rule-breaking that is generally accepted and that which isn’t. Or, as I might say, “that what ain’t”.
Sort of like “Long time no see” which is also ‘Chinglish’, but is perfectly acceptable colloquial English or “I could care less” which people understand actually means “I couldn’t care less” but IMO has a subtly different tone, more dismissive/scornful than the latter usage.
We may play fast and loose but when we are actually asking a question we will include the auxiliray. Especially the auxiliaries do and did. How “do” you do? That is a useful enough rule to teach because it is actually very rarely broken and because it is, of course, extremely important to be able to ask questions in the simple present and simple past. Naming a movie “How to lose a guy in three esay steps” is correct because it is not a quetion. It is a noun clause.
Yes, I think that’s mostly true when actually speaking. It was pointed out to me that the ‘questions’ as used in topic titles are shortened casual forms of the full sentence “Can someone tell me… (how to meet people?)” which I thought was a good explanation.
Dassgrrll, I’m sure you know this, but, English teachers call these Embedded, or Indirect questions… (See Murphy or Azar), and they have their corresponding Indirect/Embedded response stems… (I have Know idea when the train leaves…)
[quote=“Southpaw”]How to eat shit?
How to meet people?
How to buy grass?
[/quote]
“How to meet people” is a title. The mistake in your examples is not that the finite verb is omitted, but instead is that a question mark is used. Indirect questions don’t use a question mark, but adding one is a very common mistake.
Not quite dass. “How to lose a guy in three easy steps” as a movie title is not a shortened form of the question “How do you lose a guy in three easy steps” for the simple reason that a movie title is not a question. It is not asking you how to lose a guy in three easy steps it is telling you how to lose a guy in three easy steps. How to lose a guy in three easy steps is not the casual or informal or shortened form of anything. It is a noun. In the sentence I know bob, bob is a noun. In the sentence I know how to lose a guy in three easy steps, how to lose a guy in three easy steps is a noun. Forum titles can also be nouns. If the purpose of the article is to teach people how to lose…then that title is correct. If the purpose of the article is to ask a question, then “How to…?” is wrong and “How do…?” is correct. The auxiliary verbs be, do and have are absolutely essential in English because they are used to make questions, negatives and the verb tenses. There should be no equivocation on this.
As Southpaw just said - he was specifically asking about its use in question form as given in his thread title examples. The example “How to lose a guy in three easy steps” being a title is completely correct, but irrelevant. I still maintain it is a shortened (lazy) form of a complete question in the examples given, or perhaps whatever mwalimu said :help: I’m not claiming it’s correct, just that as a form of casual usage it generally doesn’t raise eyebrows.
Ah, English! What to do? What to say? How to cope?
It would raise my eyebrows and it should raise the eyebrows of any English teacher because it is entirely non native usage. In other words it is a mistake. The distinction between how to… and how do… is entirely relevant and and can easily be demonstrated with examples. This is what I did. To be honest it is amazing to me that there would be any conversation about this between native speakers.
Depends on who uses it, and how. Are you saying that everything you write in a casual style is ‘correct’ in that it could be used as an example in teaching English? I find that highly unlikely, even from a native speaker. People writing casually often don’t write in complete sentences, for stylistic effect, laziness, and other reasons. Capish?
Looking through the Miscellaneous forums, there are plenty of ‘questions’ that aren’t in traditional form. Marmite? Leather repair? Where to find good cheese? Sewing classes? You definitely wouldn’t set out to teach non-native speakers to write like that, but native speakers ‘break the rules’ all the time, which was my point. Yes, it is wrong. However, many native speakers do it without thinking.
I suspect you missed the point of my What to say? What to do? How to cope? soliloquy… all acceptable English, if a tad melodramatic
Actually I teach casual English all the time because most of what I teach is dialogue from television and film. Sometimes I point out the difference between what is said on screen and the way the same thing would be presented in a grammar text. Most often it isn’t all that neccesary because they already get it. So I guess yes I would say much of what is written or spoken is a good example of casual English. Especially lines such as “Western girls are alright I guess but it can sure be a back breaking ordeal trying to mate with one” and “Most Taiwnese girls are so dumb you can pop their cherry and they don’t know what happened.” I talk and write like that all the time. I would however never ask “How to make friends?” It just irks me I guess because I know that for non native speakers it is a lazy way out of deciding which verb tense to use and then making a question accordingly. I have no idea what native speakers are on about with it. Maybe they are taking English grammar lessons from their students… Cheers. It’s saturday night!
