Hi all! Just thinking about moving back to Taiwan and I wanted to get an idea of the economic situation there these days. Is everything well, or not so much. How’s the job front, whether it be English teaching or just in general. Are jobs tough to find for your average Taiwanese right now? I used to live in Taipei from 1998 to 2001, has the cost of living gone up much? What can one expect to pay, on average, for rent there?
Thanks for any thoughts and tips.
Andy
Sorry I can’t give you specifics about Taipei, or how it has changed since you last lived in Taiwan. I live in Taoyuan, and I’ve been here two years. I’m guessing after eight years things have gone up in price. As to whether wages have kept up, I couldn’t tell you.
Anyway, as far as the job market goes (at least in Taoyuan), there seems to be plenty going around if you look hard for it. I have a friend who works himself into the ground (48 teaching hours and still adding) and goes around to a bunch of new places/gets offered new jobs by recruiters every week. He said it’s slightly tougher than before, though judging by his situation, I would say not. Maybe if you want to lock yourself into your standard big buxiban/kindergarten contract, yes. If you’re willing to work several small jobs and shop around, probably not.
Jobs are shitty for the average Taiwanese person, though when I say shitty, it’s a relative term. Taiwanese workers always get the shit end of the stick here, it’s just a matter of how much shit is on that end of the stick. Right now, there’s more than a year ago.
Thanks very much for the reply and coments on Taoyuan. 
Well, could you give us some more details what you might be looking for?
Rent for a small taofang could go from 4000 NT onwards in Taipei County.
If you are looking for something decent, you might expect to pay around 10.000 NT in/around Taipei.
As for a job, you might want to take a look at the Work forum, here at Forumosa.
Recruiting could be a lucrative job. besides that, based upon your previous working experience, you might find some interesting opportunities in Hsinchu Science Park or in Nankang Software park. It depends upon your qualiification, previous working experience, your expectations, what you are able to offer a company, how well they can be the benevolent recipient of your talents, …
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Sorry I can’t give you specifics about Taipei, or how it has changed since you last lived in Taiwan. I live in Taoyuan, and I’ve been here two years. I’m guessing after eight years things have gone up in price. As to whether wages have kept up, I couldn’t tell you.
Anyway, as far as the job market goes (at least in Taoyuan), there seems to be plenty going around if you look hard for it. I have a friend who works himself into the ground (48 teaching hours and still adding) and goes around to a bunch of new places/gets offered new jobs by recruiters every week. He said it’s slightly tougher than before, though judging by his situation, I would say not. Maybe if you want to lock yourself into your standard big buxiban/kindergarten contract, yes. If you’re willing to work several small jobs and shop around, probably not.
Jobs are shitty for the average Taiwanese person, though when I say shitty, it’s a relative term. Taiwanese workers always get the shit end of the stick here, it’s just a matter of how much shit is on that end of the stick. Right now, there’s more than a year ago.[/quote]
I don’t know… but it seems minimum wage worker (the 90nt an hour wage here is actually same as US Federal minimum wage after tax!) in the US really gets the shit end because while they might make marginally more than they do in Taiwan, you will NOT find a 5000nt a month tau fan in the US unless you live in a really dangerous/crime infested area. Even the cheapest places will set you back at least 300US a month, at a really bad location.
[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”]
I don’t know… but it seems minimum wage worker (the 90nt an hour wage here is actually same as US Federal minimum wage after tax!) in the US really gets the shit end because while they might make marginally more than they do in Taiwan, you will NOT find a 5000nt a month tau fan in the US unless you live in a really dangerous/crime infested area. Even the cheapest places will set you back at least 300US a month, at a really bad location.[/quote]
That’s not completely true. While you’re right about cheaper housing is determined by location, it doesn’t have to be in a dangerous/crime infested area. Good rule of thumb is to spend 30% of one’s income on housing. I’m spending roughly in that range and I live in a large metropolis city in a neighborhood that has low if not little crime.
Besides I don’t know anyone who pays 300US unless they are receiving public assistance, and even then they don’t have to live in “crime infested” areas to have decent housing.
[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Sorry I can’t give you specifics about Taipei, or how it has changed since you last lived in Taiwan. I live in Taoyuan, and I’ve been here two years. I’m guessing after eight years things have gone up in price. As to whether wages have kept up, I couldn’t tell you.
Anyway, as far as the job market goes (at least in Taoyuan), there seems to be plenty going around if you look hard for it. I have a friend who works himself into the ground (48 teaching hours and still adding) and goes around to a bunch of new places/gets offered new jobs by recruiters every week. He said it’s slightly tougher than before, though judging by his situation, I would say not. Maybe if you want to lock yourself into your standard big buxiban/kindergarten contract, yes. If you’re willing to work several small jobs and shop around, probably not.
Jobs are shitty for the average Taiwanese person, though when I say shitty, it’s a relative term. Taiwanese workers always get the shit end of the stick here, it’s just a matter of how much shit is on that end of the stick. Right now, there’s more than a year ago.[/quote]
I don’t know… but it seems minimum wage worker (the 90nt an hour wage here is actually same as US Federal minimum wage after tax!) in the US really gets the shit end because while they might make marginally more than they do in Taiwan, you will NOT find a 5000nt a month tau fan in the US unless you live in a really dangerous/crime infested area. Even the cheapest places will set you back at least 300US a month, at a really bad location.[/quote]
I wasn’t necessarily talking about America. I’m not American. I certainly don’t think I’d want to work there from all I’ve heard. I’m from Australia and jobs for lower to middle income earners don’t seem to be nearly as exploitative from what I’ve heard. Things are changing, but the middle class aren’t being squeezed nearly as hard as in the U.S. from what I’ve heard.
Anyway, I was talking about the situation in Taiwan where many people at all levels of employment work six days a week, and often for ten or more hours a day, even if their official hours are considerably less. In Australia, you can certainly find many white-collar, middle income jobs that are really 9-5, or pretty close, and if you’re on a wage, you’re really on a wage, with none of these sneaky unpaid extra hours. Of course, in Taiwan, being at work for ten hours per day, six days per week doesn’t necessarily mean people are working hard. There seems to be a fair amount of msn time built into any office job here. Personally though, I’d rather just go home earlier.
As for the cost of living, Australia is getting stupidly expensive now (it has some of the most over-inflated housing in the OECD), which is one reason I’m not living there. I earn less here but save far more. However, the average Taiwanese doesn’t earn nearly as much as I do, so it’s not really fair to compare my situation to theirs. I think the fact that so many people can only have one kid or no kids – and money is almost always cited as the reason – speaks volumes about the affordability of life for the average Taiwanese.
I think with the minimum wage in Taiwan assuming you only provide for yourself, or you and your wife provides for each other, then if you work 8-9 hrs a day, six days a week you will get around 22,000 NT a month, or a little less if you work 5 days a week. I don’t think it’s too bad if you’re alone you could live in a taufan and if it’s you and a spouse then you could find something a little bigger, but I’d avoid the inner cities since rent can be really high. Even rent in Danshui plus commute to Taipei for jobs is still way less than rent in Taipei. Actually most average pay for unskilled full time job (I am talking about packing groceries type of job) is around 24,000 NT a month and as long as you stay away from Carnagies you will have extras for whatever. As for working off the clock, it just depends on the person. If you let your boss exploit you they will exploit you, especially in Taiwan. I never worked off the clock once, and I would not do that either. Now some bosses might not like you too much if you refuse to work unpaid hours. I have seen people working 12 hours a day six days a week for the minimum 17,000 NT a month and if I were in their shoes I’d pack up and leave and find a 100nt an hour job (which isn’t too hard to find) because if you add up all the hours you will get way more than 24,000 a month.
There are plenty of people graduating from university now barely getting 24,000NT in their field of expertise. You’re right that it would make more sense to go and work for minimum wage, although perhaps not in the long run. Even then, I’m still not sure getting a white collar job for most people will pay off in the long run when you consider the opportunity cost of going to university in terms of the income they could have had in those four years (and also the cost of the fees, especially if they don’t study in their hometown).
My girlfriend’s older sister has a university degree and makes about 18,000NT/month in administration (admittedly, very low level and not in her field, but she couldn’t get into her field) and she works eight hours per day, six days per week. That works out to something like 87NT/hour! She could probably get more working in a supermarket ot convenience store.
My girlfriend is about to graduate with a degree in commercial design. Aside from really not liking all the bullshit she’s encountered (especially in the past year) in that field, she’s not particularly inspired to go out there and work in her field because of the money. Twelve months ago, people were talking about starting salaries of at or just below 30,000NT/month (with very long hours though), though realistically at about 27,000NT/month. Now, she says they’re talking considerably below 25,000NT/month (with very long hours still, and possibly higher than before).
At those levels, I don’t see a great incentive to go and work in the field, especially if you’re going to be commuting and/or taking a lot of work home with you and basically having no life, as well as being under a lot of stress from clients and deadlines. She doesn’t either.
Her English is pretty good, so we’ve discussed various other options, such as doing some design work freelancing, and also trying to run a small internet-based business, combined with possibly tutoring in English. With her design work that she’s already produced and that she can churn out pretty quickly, she could probably squeeze out a couple of grand per week selling various little things like personalised stationery, diaries, etc., and she could probably pick up 200-300NT/hour tutoring. Even still, how will that have been a good investment in her education? What will have been the point?
Furthermore, in terms of her pay as a designer, if she were also working 48 hours/week like her sister and getting 24,000NT/month, she would get 116NT/hour, or a little under 5,600NT/week. In her position (having a foreign boyfriend), she would be much better off spending her time trying to set up private group classes. Those can easily make 2,000NT/hour. If she spent the full 48 hours per week for a month or so cold calling and following up various leads, she could probably set up a couple of such classes and be half way to what she would have earnt anyway. From there, from her angle, it’s basically passive income (because there would only be a couple of hours per week at most of actual face time with the students, talking to them on the phone, e-mailing them, etc.). After six months, if she’s industrious, she could easily have raised her side of the income (not to mention mine) to beyond what she could be getting as a designer even after a few years.
It’s a totally ludicrous situation, but it’s why so many people I have known who work at buxibans have degrees in fields other than English. They can make at least 300NT/hour at some big buxiban chains. Why would they work in their field for half that and longer hours?
I know people talk about Taiwan’s productivity, but even aside from all the msn time and effort spent trying to appear busy, I don’t think it’s that productive here, or it certainly won’t be for the so-called Strawberry Generation. It seems like a huge misallocation of resources, or there is a really bad incentive structure, to channel so many people through four years of higher education only for them to be so disillusioned about their prospects and unable to work in their field of expertise, or for it to be far more profitable for them to work in other fields. At least, that’s the case for my girlfriend. For people like her sister (who doesn’t speak English well at all, and thus, doesn’t have the chance to jump ship to ESL employment), what prospects are there? How is she going to be able to ever afford to have children? I am certainly a big capitalist, and I don’t believe in socialistic government programmes, but I think there’s something really wrong with this country when a tiny percentage of people are squirrelling away millions abroad and hedging their bets with greencards, etc. while the country is basically growing old and dying around them because no one can afford to have kids. This is all well and good right now because there’s the illusion of prosperity because people are living off the massive and extra-ordinary wealth created by previous generations in Taiwan in the past fifty years, especially in living with their parents well into their thirties in many cases, but what about in twenty years’ time? What will this generation have been able to “build” if they’re living consumeristic lives, having to support a large (or larger!) older generation through what will surely be increased taxes, and stuggling to find gainful and meaningful employment?
You surely could get some results by doing a search on this forum with the word job, living standard, and a few other relevant search terms.
One option, you might want to consider is to live together with a few other foreigners and share the rent. This way, you might find yourself a place at 6000-8000 NT/month.
Several people are also looking into jobs, besides teaching.
Technical writing, 5 days 8 hour working day; 40.000 NT and more.
Modeling: 500 and more/hour
Marketing/sales jobs: 5 days 9-10 hours a week; usually 40.000 NT and more. In some jobs, you might get a good commission.
If you read Chinese, you can always try the 104 and 1111 websites to look for some opportunities.
www.1111.com.tw
I think I looked into technical writing and there isn’t too many openings, like if you look in 104 or 1111 (and it only works if you can read Chinese) you will see maybe 5 openings in the whole Taiwan for technical writing. So it’s basically tons of applicants but only a few openings. Modeling only works if you look spectacular, if you’re average looking or a little overweight (a little overweight in the US is considered morbidly obese in Asia, weight is a big thing here for both men and women!) then forget it. Marketing may be a good option though since there’s tons of businesses and business opportunities here and there are tons of openings for marketing, but leave those jobs for Taiwanese because foreigners can pursue ESL/EFL type of jobs since those jobs seems to discriminate anyone who looks Asian but have great English. Besides many marketing companies might not want to hire as many foreigners as Taiwanese for the fact that they may want one or two foreigners to understand their target market (if it’s US or Europe) but it would be far cheaper and easier to hire Taiwanese.
But if you’re someone who is introverted or has Aspergers I’d avoid sales… when your livelihood is dependent on how strangers feel about you I’d take a more background type of job, like marketing research or focus group studies…
If you have any experience, you should be able to do much better than 40,000 in tech writing. 500/hour for modeling is also crap, even in Taiwan.
For technical writing, are you saying 40,000NT/month or 40,000NT/week? The former wouldn’t be worth it compared to teaching and the latter would seem too good to be true for most foreigners in Taiwan. Also, usually, you need very particular knowledge to do technical writing. I very much doubt I could get a job writing for any kind of electronics publication because I don’t have even a basic idea, let alone a very good idea, about the topic. They’d find that out in about five seconds.
Crap!
The market is global. Recession.
If you can you need to get a ex pat job outside Taiwan. 40,000 is the minimum overseas allowance for most jobs which would pay for a decent apartment in Taipei City. Have your salary paid in Euro’s.
Never get the job here or you will find bosses that would have been kicked out of the SS for cruelty!
There are many options.
F.i.: RECRUITING: you could get a 45.000 to 50.000 NT basic salary and a competitive bonus. This bonus could be anywhere from 0 NT$ up to 100.000 NT $.
Those companies do not always advertise, but if you use some search terms like “executive search, recruiting, recruiter, HR, …” you might get lucky.
IMC, MRI, HR Net One, SES Asia, Heydrick and Struggles, …
Having some recruitment experience would be an asset. But if you are into direct marketing, making a lot of cold calls, … you might be in for it.
Working as an AGENT/REPRESENTATIVE for a foreign company:
they need someone, who can do the legwork for them; attend meetings, make travel arrangements, meet local dealers, …
Working in the hospitality industry; working as a foreigner in a HOTEL / TOURISM sector.
Guiding other foreigners around in Taiwan?
Use your language skills at its best.
TEACHING is usually the easy way out for many foreigners. They even often use to support their Chinese study (get a student ARC, …)
There are plenty of opportunities, but you sometimes might need some help from a few locals to uncover these “hidden” opportunities.
If you want to try marketing, you surely might want to take a look at the electronics industry.
Teac
“I certainly…I’ve heard.” OMG! Yes,the U.S.A. is horrible! People getting car-jacked and ripped off and killed all the time!!! Yes,it’s terrible!!! It’s not safe to walk anywhere there! One is just putting their life on the line every second that they live there!!! The horror!!! You are an *****!!! Do you believe everything that you hear? Hick! 
Are you drinking paint-thinner, you mentallist? 
peeyes, no idea what the above post of mine was all about. Mustabin correcting a comma or something and messed it up.
Looks like you are probably in a wrong area. Go elsewhere! WTF, get out of where you are and get a job. Hell!