There is going to be a big anti-nuclear demonstration on Saturday.
I saw a long line of buses lining up at the gas-station in Louzou this evening. I am not sure, but if they were getting ready to pick up and carry demonstrators from around the island, then this is going to be huge.
More than 50,000 people are expected to participate, but the TV broadcast was filled with this topic the past week, so this might be much bigger.
Heard there’s a sister demo down in Taidong as well, people from Lanyu coming over for that one.
I just hope these demonstrators will help me pay my electric bill when it goes up by another 70%…
Cost isn’t the issue so much as stable supply and what will they be replaced with over time?
That’s where it becomes a no win situation. If they closed all the nuclear plants, they’d almost certainly be replaced with coal-fired power stations which come with their own set of equally bad problems.
Also Taipower has said they would have to replace it with natural gas power plants, at least in the short term. Natural gas is very expensive, so it will certainly mean a huge increase in electricity prices.
Natural gas power-plants are very flexible. The can go from almost zero to peak in no time.
Of course the gas needs to come from somewhere. My gas bill right now is about 800NT$ for two month and most of it comes from taking showers.
Yes, I take warm showers…!
It can’t be done! It can’t be done! It can’t be done! stop here for a moment…
Taiwan’s annual import for gas is huge. If they required every rooftop in Taiwan to have sun collectors, the gas that was saved could probably power a couple of plants.
Remember! Gas power-plants are flexible. You can turn them on and off as needed, not like those coal or nuclear power plants.
Gas is also more expensive and they are only used during peak demands, which is why electricity is so expensive during the summer because they need to use more of it. Coal and nuclear is only used for baseline.
You can’t require every rooftop to have solar collectors, because who’s going to pay for that? Heat pump water heaters already cost more than 50,000 for the unit so most Taiwanese won’t get it because it would be years before it pays for itself. Solar collectors are even more expensive, and with the wage stagnation going on right now any politician who even suggests requiring everyone to have solar collectors will be publicly tarred and feathered.
[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”]
You can’t require every rooftop to have solar collectors, because who’s going to pay for that? Heat pump water heaters already cost more than 50,000 for the unit so most Taiwanese won’t get it because it would be years before it pays for itself. Solar collectors are even more expensive, and with the wage stagnation going on right now any politician who even suggests requiring everyone to have solar collectors will be publicly tarred and feathered.[/quote]
You might want to read this first. There are other places that have done just that and nobody is running around with feathers tarred to their skin.
Solar City Case Study: Barcelona, Spain
http://www.martinot.info/solarcities/barcelona.htm
Might work in a more liberal country but not in Taiwan, the people here hate spending money and they do not care about long term benefits…
It took my mum in Australia (in an area with a similar climate to Taiwan) about 3-4 years from installing solar panels until she’s actually making money* by selling electricity back into the grid.
*making money meaning the upfront costs have been paid for in energy savings and she basically doesn’t have electricity bills to pay now.
it works out if you have enough upfront money to pay for it and (assuming the panel doesn’t get damaged during the time) it still takes years to reap any benefits. Many Taiwanese doesn’t have that kind of money upfront and even worse, they don’t have the space because they all live in apartments. So if Taiwan is to have rooftop solar collectors it would have to be a collaborative effort from all tenants of the building - something that isn’t going to happen in Taiwan. They can’t even agree on keeping it clean for God’s sake!
That’s exactly why it should be mandatory.
We had our second building committee today and we need 60 of the apartment owners to come so we can vote for a new management.
The first time, there were only 40 or so people. Today, we were 28.
Last time someone suggested renewing the house-front. She was laughed at. My wife suggested tearing down our building and building instead a 9 floors 12, 13 or even 16 floors building. Of course everyone just laughed.
It’s no use asking for solar collectors on the roof either.
Impossible! Hahaha we need to sign everyone… hahaha…
There is only one way to change things here. Dictating it from above.
Natural gas power-plants are very flexible. The can go from almost zero to peak in no time.
Of course the gas needs to come from somewhere. My gas bill right now is about 800NT$ for two month and most of it comes from taking showers.
Yes, I take warm showers…!
It can’t be done! It can’t be done! It can’t be done! stop here for a moment…
Taiwan’s annual import for gas is huge. If they required every rooftop in Taiwan to have sun collectors, the gas that was saved could probably power a couple of plants.
Remember! Gas power-plants are flexible. You can turn them on and off as needed, not like those coal or nuclear power plants.[/quote]
Natural gas plants are cheap to build , have high efficiency and low emissions and not so expensive especially if emissions laws are tightened up and carbon credits included, almost all new plants are natural gas in the US and gas prices are predicted to stay relatively low for a long time to come. It would be best for Taiwan to add some natural gas plants, may need to add some LPG importation facilities.
Apart from that Taiwan should move full on into promotion of solar panels on standalone houses and marginal land in the South. Taiwan should also reduce electrical demand especially from big industrial users.
You forget that these people also votes government representatives into office. Suggesting that everyone be mandated to have rooftop solar collector is about as effective as suggesting it to your own building. Who’s going to pay for it, and how would you convince everyone to pay for this? It would take someone 10 times better than Franklin D. Roosevelt to convince the people to accept it. I am not doubting that the people in their collaborative effort can pay for it, however politically it is impossible to ask everyone to shell out 40,000nt per person to make this a reality. Serious government subsidies would be necessary and it would almost mean a huge tax or electric rate increase. In the people’s mind things are bad enough as it is and they don’t want it getting worse. The only one who would really benefit from the deal would be solar panel manufacturers.
Oh and by the way solar panels, at least photovoltaic cells do not last forever…
[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”]Gas is also more expensive and they are only used during peak demands, which is why electricity is so expensive during the summer because they need to use more of it. Coal and nuclear is only used for baseline.
You can’t require every rooftop to have solar collectors, because who’s going to pay for that? Heat pump water heaters already cost more than 50,000 for the unit so most Taiwanese won’t get it because it would be years before it pays for itself. Solar collectors are even more expensive, and with the wage stagnation going on right now any politician who even suggests requiring everyone to have solar collectors will be publicly tarred and feathered.[/quote]
Actually if you put in big orders from governments the cost could plummet, besides solar water heaters are already quite popular in the South with some subsidies applying, they would be more so if the costs came down.
I would be glad to be rid of nuclear plants especially in a country like Taiwan (geography reasons) but I never see any realistic alternatives provided. All I see is suggestions for solar or wind but it could take decades to simply replace the energy obtained from nuclear plants. That hasn’t even started addressing the coal plants that are partly responsible for the dirty air.
One nice thing is that some environmental awareness is being raised by these groups. This is sorely needed here.
Here’s some pics if anyone’s interested.
craigfergusonimages.photoshelter … RrWnqX.gtE
There were a lot of people.
Well, the idea is to replace your obsolete energy-wasting systems and policies with updated ones, which are “tuned” to operate from renewable sources. Then you don’t need your nuclear plant. Getting that concept through to the “aircon should be set at 12’C” general public would be a bit of an uphill struggle, though. They don’t want the nuclear plant, but they don’t want to make any changes either.
Yup, true.
but the idea is still expensive as hell, using “renewable energy” that will cost much more per kwh than nuclear. No matter what even setting the AC at 28 degrees the bill is still very high, and after nuclear energy is phased out it will be more than 70% higher.