I lived overseas (Taiwan) in my 20s and 30s. Now, in my 40s, I'm learning that there's

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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I lived overseas in my 20s and 30s. Now, in my 40s, I’m learning that there’s value in staying put.

  • Becky Martin and her partner moved to Taiwan in their 20s in search of adventure and to pay off student loans.
  • A few years later, they returned home to Canada, only to realize they wanted to move to Taiwan permanently.
  • In their 40s, their thinking again shifted, and they realized the draw of family was calling them back home.

Thought this MSM article would be a propos here. Interesting that at 29, she and her husband moved to Taiwan intending to stay permanently. Lots to relate to. The easy money teaching English, the level of respect that English teachers have here, the easy lifestyle in Taiwan, the challenges of resuming a career back in the home country (in this case, Canada).

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Quite mind-blowing that on DINK they struggle financially in Canada.

I doubt that we’ll ever be financially comfortable again. We’ll probably never own a house, buy a new car, go on fancy vacations, or have a comfortable retirement.

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It says they’re living in Ontario. Housing costs here are ridiculous.

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Depends where you are from I guess.

I lived in Taiwan for 5 yrs straight. Then went back home to blighty for 2 years. That just made me appreciate Taiwan more and not ever want to move back home. Might be a different story if I were from a non shit hole country I guess.

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WTF is this:

At 46, after starting over in Canada again, changing careers, and dealing with the rising cost of living, I [Becky Martin, the author of the Business Insider article linked above] doubt that we’ll ever be financially comfortable again. We’ll probably never own a house, buy a new car, go on fancy vacations, or have a comfortable retirement.

But it’s all worth it to watch my nieces and nephews grow into adults. I also have time for intimate conversations with my siblings during car rides or while hiking nearby.

Based on this account, I feel they have very different priorities from me. As adults we need to make a go of it. I’m not saying it’s Taiwan-or-nothing (that would be crazy) but choosing and then boasting about living with this level of financial precariousness in Canada is nuts.

Guy

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People will try and justify anything to themselves .
There’s a lot of great things in having family around but still a shit situation is a shit situation.
It does remind me that I knew a bunch of Canadian young couples bwck then making a relative fortune in the early 2000s. They would have had a great life and be banking it in.

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It’s an odd piece, that’s for sure.

Guy

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Tldr;

Canada wasn’t working for us, so we moved to Taiwan

But then the grass looked greener in Canada, so we moved back

But then the grass looked greener on the other side, so we returned to Taiwan

But then we liked the grass color in Canada more, so we moved again

Now we’re feeling like the grass isn’t as green in Canada as it might have been if we hadn’t moved around so much…

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I also wonder what they’re doing for work, since they can’t be illegal kindergarten teachers in Canada…

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It’s hard to put together a career in Canada from a resume of teaching kindergarten in Taiwan in your 20s and then 30s again. I think this couples issues go a little bit deeper anyway (moving 4 times in Canada) but hey I could be judgemental, inflation has been an absolute bitch.

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I have far deeper and more meaningful gdul conversations in Taiwan than in Canada. I also can hike a lot in Taiwan. Granted Canada is more comfortably weather wise as it’s easier to protein and carb up with clothing to warm up than it is to strip naked and still drop from heat stroke.

I think a main difference is Taiwan offers more opportunity while Canada tends to just bubble and fester. Foe the average Joe
Both countries offer massive wealth to those that work hard enough for it, but it’s surely easier in Taiwan.

Note. I am also Canadian.

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Not if you were a polar bear hunter it’s not !

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Fair enough. There are a handful of jobs Canada that are more open too. Seal clubbing, old growth rainforest clearcutting etc. But, I digress, Taiwan is better

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I can’t get beyond the paywall, but I get the gist of the article.

Makes me wonder about going back home… been here for over a decade. I doubt it’s an easy career transition, especially if you’ve spent the last decade or two playing sticky ball. In terms of succeeding when going back I know a few people who have gone back, it usually seems to be to raise children because the school system here is just so terrible. Even if you can afford private schools here, it’s still really bad, and if you want the absolute top tier, well, very few can afford that.

Of the people I know that went back, it seems to be a mixed bag. One guy I know went back and lasted just 3 years. Had to get back to Taiwan and has been ever since. Told me that he spent everything he had saved in Taiwan, like $2 million NT, on getting set up. Apartment with furniture, appliances, deposit, car, etc. etc. Getting a job that could maintain the kind of lifestyle he had in Taiwan was also very difficult, ran himself ragged working multiple jobs and just barely getting by. This was pre-pandemic however, so maybe jobs were not paying as well as they do now. Also, there were still a good number of Baby Boomers in the workforce and many of them have now retired leaving large gaps in the labor market.

Another guy is an only child and received a pretty sizable inheritance from his parents, and another relative, can’t remember, either an uncle or grandparent. Seems to be doing well for himself. Did the couple in the article mention anything about inheritance?

Me personally I taught in Korea for about a year and a half and spent two years living back home before coming here. However, we were still living in the aftermath of the Great Recession in those two years and opportunities were scarce. I just lived off of my money from Korea, did odd jobs and would buy and flip items on eBay or Craigslist. I tried and failed at a couple of sales jobs. Had visited Taiwan twice during my time in Korea and liked it, thought I’d give it a try for a year or two, ya know, just get it out of my system…

If one does not get a proper teaching credential and work at the right kinds of schools, I wonder what kinds of careers they can transition into back home without suffering financially. For me personally, I don’t know if I could easily transition into the very highly regarded and well paying high school district that I attended (or one like it) or if I’d have to teach in the hood or way out in the sticks somewhere.

I think inheritance is going to be a major factor for a lot of people going back, and one that will set apart those who thrive and those who struggle. At this point, I can’t see myself owning property in the US, the costs are just too damn high, and I’ve already made my thoughts on mortgages known in another thread.

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https://archive.ph/6KBKJ

archive.today is your friend, today and forever

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I think rent is a big one for Canada and USA. Living expenses outside of shelter I think can be managed. For example. Where I am from in Canada electricity is cheaper than Taiwan. Restaraunts are way more but groceries are about the same. Gas is higher. Service es are higher, but usually it’s easy to DIY in Canada for things like oil change, wiper blades etc. I had a long conversation with my mom this week (she’s in Victoria bc). She kept talking about how vegetables etc are so expensive. And I mentioned, oh, so cheap. It’s the same or higher here. She was complaining about sweet potatoes at 2 bucks a pound, which is about 100/kg in Taiwan. Pretty standard. Sometimes 3 skinny 300g bags here are more than that at the supermarkets.

Cars are cheaper in Canada as is insurance (in bc at least). Gas is more.

Food is cheaper in Canada if one cooks. Restaraunts are cheaper here but the quality isn’t on par so it’s not a legitimate comparison.

My highest costs in life are

Food
Transport (we have a few vehicles for work, so Gas…)
Shelter
Electricity

Everything after that is more or less a choice and luxury.

Rent is the real bastard for north America north of Mexico. I’m from Vancouver Island and 1 bedroom apartments are 2k. I own a house and rent it for 700cdn, which is absolutely unheard of there. But even that lowball is 16k nt. People can rent simple home sin Taiwan for 3 k. 5k plus for comfortable. 10k for nice. In Canada it’s basically 10x. Which leaves little for many that also need food and all that. Taxes in taiwna are also far better as well as infrastructure and health care. In Canada it’s poorly developed and health care is complete garbage now.

If not for China’s constant oppression and death threats to the world for supporting Taiwan being…just a place. Then Taiwan would be the EASY winner over USA and Canada. Hands down. Environment and china are the only downsides here in comparison to those 2 countries in my opinion.

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Children’s education made the Taiwan choice for myself and my wife unacceptable. I had an academic job in Taiwan at a medical school for a few years (I’m 2nd gen Taiwanese-Canadian who returned to work) and my wife was a Taiwan-born school teacher. We could’ve easily had lifelong careers in Taiwan. We got married in Canada. When it came to deciding where to live long term, although we both liked living in Taiwan, the education system made that point moot. We wouldn’t consider in any circumstance to have our kids go through the education system in Taiwan given the option to raise them in Canada.

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Edit: just moved back to the UK for this reason.

Just got back picking my kid up from a school trip to a museum. Last month was a cricket camp. The month before it was a trip to the local uni for a robotic convention. Year end tests were this week. No tears. No stressing.

After living in Taiwan and teaching at cram schools for so long, I was offered loads of teaching jobs with multiple schools offering me training contracts. Not much use to any other industry, except…the civil service. Work in an office now and it is bloody brilliant. Being around people with a similar sense of humour and near to my mates has been brilliant. I work with people from all over Europe and it is really fun. I am honestly laughing my head off having a great time every day. Hybrid working and plenty of holidays. The wage is not great, but it is enough to pay the bills and there are opportunities to progress. I love Taiwan and didnt want to leave, but now I am thinking i should have done it earlier. The UK is a shithole in many ways. In other ways, it is brill. It is beautiful.

Edit: beautiful in the countryside/ villages.

Plus after all that, i might be back in Taiwan if the wife doesnt settle in.

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I feel for anyone semi-skilled they are generally better in Canada if you just want to work at a company and get paid decently but not amazingly. Semi skilled foreign professionals aren’t really desired in Taiwan overall by employers and the few that do pay pretty shitty. (Expat positions and highly technical engineers like MRT/Fab excepted)

If you have business sense (I don’t) Taiwan is amazing for foreigners starting a business compared to Canada.

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I mentioned it in another thread, I also just moved back to the UK after teaching in Taiwan, in total I was there for about 15 years. I prepared for it, though. The last three years were spent doing a distance degree in Computer Science, and I’ve been lucky enough to land one of the vanishing few entry-level software developer roles around, at an Edutech firm where I was able to leverage my time in a classroom as a major asset. Also having very similar experiences to you so far. Hybrid working, spending some of the time in a relaxed office around nice people, and some of it at home with my kids. The wage is higher than I was getting for teaching in Taiwan, and there’s a lot more room to grow in my career. I can also really relate to this part:

We’ll see how I feel once the novelty has worn off, but I think I’ve managed to land on my feet and I’m really looking forward to the next couple of years.

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