Bullshit. As soon as a replacement was found Elizabeth would have been told not to come in anymore. She would not have been compensated for loss of wages for whatever remained of her two weeks. If she didn’t agree then another fight would have started in which, once again, the boss would have escalated the situation until Elizabeth quit without asking for compensation (which is exactly what the boss wanted).
in Taiwan, the culture, the ettiquette, etc, conspire to give the boss power. When you play the “face” game, you lose as often as you win. Might as well keep your self-respect and never bother to grovel and faun and squirm.[/quote]
MM, I am basing my comments on personal experience. It’s well documented that I worked at Kojen School 4 for one of the worst possible managers. IN the last two years, all of her staff (Chinese and Foreign) have quit. Those that gave notice in a manner that allowed the dragon lady to save face were able to pass their remaining days in relative comfort. Those that did not provide a “face-saving” ploy were publically harangued day in and day out. One case where the XiaoJie gave 3 weeks notice and was fined a month’s salary because she should have given 4 weeks notice. We are not in Canada and the rules here are different. When I decided not to renew my contract at WSI/ChitChat, I told them it was for personal reasons. I left with bonus in hand and a letter of recommendation. It’s very easy to burn a bridge here. The truly mature teacher can move on to greener pastures without ruffling feathers…especially such easily ruffled feathers as the OP’s boss obviously flies with.
It sounds as if OP was not given the opportunity to move on to greener pastures peacefully.
Why is face giving bandied around as if it’s some kind of magic bullet that will make all troubles go way? And while we’re talking about face, what about OP’s? Doesn’t seem the boss gave a damn about her dignity, does it?
Sometimes when you’re getting screamed at it’s hard to think about how to save your boss’ face. And why should you? Sometimes fighting back and standing up for yourself is called for. I don’t know what OP’s critics think she ought to have done in this situation. I don’t much care either.
Sounds to me as if OP has got her stuff together and is handling this situation quite well. Burned bridges? I think the boss burned them with his temper in much the same way “dragon lady” burned them for Toe. Still OP proposed resigning with appropriate notice.
No. OP has been very reasonable in some very unreseasonable circumstances, while dealing with some very unreasonable people. Need proof that she is the reasonable one? Look at the action the forign affairs police is taking on her behalf. It’s ironic that the local authorities care more about what’s right than some know-it-all-trying-to-show-how-they’re-more-local-than-the-locals foreigners. It’s really sad that when support is called for, criticism from those who have no business criticizing comes forth.
TS - I agree completely. If someone here were to call a friend on the phone, what would they want, support or a solid berating?
For whatever reason, cynicism, sarcasm, and pettiness are the default behaviorisms of a lot of posters here. For those who ooze negativity, I ask you this: If you have nothing positive to contribute to a thread, why post at all? Do you enjoy knocking people down and telling them “I told you so?” Do you get off on laughing at the miseries of others? What’s wrong with you that you spend so much of your time kicking other people around? And is that why you left your home country in the first place - because your behavior made you a social pariah?
Is it a cruel world? Sure it is. But people come onto sites like this because they need help or understanding, not to solicit the unwarranted berating of strangers.
Not a few people have stopped posting at Forumosa because of this situation, and I think it needs to be looked at seriously by the posters in question and administrators alike.
[quote=“Gubo”]TS - I agree completely. If someone here were to call a friend on the phone, what would they want, support or a solid berating?
For whatever reason, cynicism, sarcasm, and pettiness are the default behaviorisms of a lot of posters here. For those who ooze negativity, I ask you this: If you have nothing positive to contribute to a thread, why post at all? Do you enjoy knocking people down and telling them “I told you so?” Do you get off on laughing at the miseries of others? What’s wrong with you that you spend so much of your time kicking other people around? And is that why you left your home country in the first place - because your behavior made you a social pariah?
Is it a cruel world? Sure it is. But people come onto sites like this because they need help or understanding, not to solicit the unwarranted berating of strangers.
Not a few people have stopped posting at Forumosa because of this situation, and I think it needs to be looked at seriously by the posters in question and administrators alike.[/quote]
Nature of the beast. The poster got good and bad replies. It’s not like a telephone call at all – your analogy is wrong. It’s like standing up in a debating chamber, making a statement and inviting replies from the floor. Not everyone will agree with you, some will, some will be polite, some won’t, some will be arseholes, some won’t.
If people have stopped posting on Forumosa because they don’t like what some people say, surely that points to deficiencies (for want of a better word) on the part of the departed rather than deficiencies on Forumosa.
We’re not a model society, we’re a reflection of society.
Sorry, but based on my experiences elsewhere on the Net over the last decade, I have to disagree. Certain moods or tendencies prevail at each site, and when a critical mass of supportive, helpful people emerges, coupled with the support and direction of a board’s administration, it is very possible to maintain a positive, supportive vibe on a board.
While I agree with Sandman that this is a forum and not all opinions will be favorable, I agree With Gubo’s sentiment that the negativity and nature of the criticisms are unwarranted.
One of the more vocal critics “paraphrased” the OP to the point where had her saying “f you” to the boss. Total misrepresentation of the OP’s account of the incident. This was done only to portray OP in a way that suited his rhetorical method, which had as its goal, showing how OP was somehow at fault for what happened. Nonsense.
The premise behind alot of the criticism seems to have been a “you’re a greenhorn and don’t know how to deal with people here, so you got what you deserve. Learn how to play the face game.” This is just a crock of bull___. As Muchaman pointed out, OP likely would have lost out all the same even if she had groveled and kissed the boss’ butt. She is much better off for retaining her dignity.
Further, the boss tried a blatantly illegal tactic and used duress to try to succeed in stealing 20000 of the OP’s money. I don’t know why people haven’t been all over this. Critics have been strangely silent around this issue.
Really, the critics have had very little constructive to say at all and, so, have just come across as mean spirited individuals.
TS your so quick to defend this person when you don’t really know what the build up was over the last seven months. All I can gather was that she was grabbed at the wrists and not that hard as there were no marks. Is this really assault?
How many times was this person late?
What was this person’s attitude in class and around the school?
Did she take the day off even when they said no?
How many other days off?
What other things happened?
Nobody has said what the manager, wife and daughter did was right but we are only asking why and maybe help this person so it does not happen again. I just feel that there might be more to the story.
I’m not even discussing the alleged assault. But I noticed you ignored the illegal tactics of the boss as well. Why?
Yes, the other questions would be valid ones. Perhaps if someone were to suggest she was cronically late, that may have explained the boss’ negative treatment.
However, given no other information to go on, I side with the teacher. Mostly, but not exclusively, because the boss went way over the top and was trying to rip the teacher off.
Seems to me the OP was “Let go” from a previous postion, do we see a pattern of her seeking out “crazy” employment opportunities or maybe there is another side to the story. Nobody really knows the build up, and we only ever hear one sided stories on this website. Support where support is neccesary, jump on the “rip into Taiwanese employers” bandwagon seems to be more the rule.
I agree completely. I say we track down the OP, and bring her severed dripping head to the buxiban owner as an homage to proper management. Only thus can we demonstrate our sincerity to the principles of school loyalty.
That’ll teach her not to skimp on scooter maintenance.
Who is ELIZABETH? I have one User name and my husband has another and niether one is ELIZABETH, so sorry to dissappoint you:
In answer to questions asked and comments:
I NEVER took a day off, in the entire 7 months I worked there, and I worked Monday to Saturday; as I said, I asked for one day off when I had an endoscopy done, and she refused. SO I WENT TO WORK.
I was late on 2 occasions in 7 months, and I telephoned both times. No, I was not cronically late, I was nearly always half an hour early. I am a good teacher, and the kids at the school liked me a lot. I even created work books to go along with the reading books FOR FREE for the school. I was not a slacker.
I posted on this forum to get advice about what to do about my boss (i.e. the ILLEGAL CLAUSE IN THE CONTRACT and being physically assaulted), not to find out how you all think I should or should not have acted.
I did not give my boss 2 weeks notice, I gave my boss as much notice as it took her to find a new teacher, so if it had taken 4 to 6 weeks, so be it. She decided to fire me instead, that is where the 2 weeks notice comes in, on her end not mine.
Can’t anyone READ all the way through posts before responding? Most of the questions you are asking have already been answered.
The situation has been resolved, but I don’t know if I should post the name of the school as a warning to anyone, as the majority of people on this forum seem to be suggesting I just got what was coming to me right? So maybe you’ll end up working there someday? You’d do great, I’m sure. It was just me and the OTHER 4 PREVIOUS TEACHERS that had trouble with this boss, because there was something wrong with us, not her.
Hind sight is always 20/20, so of course, you’re right!!
However, why do you support a boss that convinces you to sign an illegal contract by informing you that they have checked and have been assured it is legal by the government? (I had my friend call the police for me and they also said that if it’s in the contract, it’s true. I only found out recently that it wasn’t true, but I was still willing to work there until they found a new teacher, as I had agreed to in my contract. You would know this if you read the previous posts).
I’m sorry that I still feel I have rights, even in this country. So if my boss treats me badly for 5 months (she was just peachy for the first 2, but I am told this is the way she always is), I’m eventually going to tell her so. It is exactly what I would have done in ANY OTHER COUNTRY. I would have told my boss why I was leaving, given them time to replace me and left. AND I HIGHLY DOUBT I WOULD HAVE BEEN ATTACKED FOR WANTING TO SHOW A PIECE OF PAPER TO THE LABOR BOARD. Also, retainers are illegal in most other countries as well (for sure in the US), and a lot of places take the law much more seriously than Taiwan, so I don’t think they would lie to an employee to get them to sign an illegal contract in most other countries. So it wouldn’t be an issue really, would it?
Thanks to all the supportive people, but don’t worry, the rest of you will be sure not to see me here again.
Oh and I sincerely apologize for my terrible spelling error of writing “then” instead of “than”. I obviously am a horrible person for making you endure my stupidity (or fast typing, whatever you prefer)
I thought you were Elizabeth too: when you were having trouble choosing usernames, someone by the name of Elizabeth (who coincidentally created her ID on the same DAY as your husband’s back on May 19th), wrote this:
Tell me you’re joking right? So you didn’t notice that this elizabeth person managed to post in the middle of your exchanges on wed, have it all tie up, and have an ID created ont he same day as the previous ID you 'd just use? til now?
I’m not joking, I hadn’t even posted anything after my last post on page 3 or something until today. I only read page 5 today. Where there really only two people that signed on that day?
I’m about ready to give up on this on-line community thing. Why would someone write for me? Do people do this alot on Forumosa? I mean, I’ve gotten some pretty strange vibes (or were those insults?), but this is a bit much. I only just got my pay and tax forms, they weren’t “waiting” for me at the labor affairs office, they just arrived today. I don’t get it. And I don’t have a split personality. Maybe ELIZABETH has some sort of problem?
Oh, sh@#! I just got a message from I TALK GOOD ENGLISH asking me who the hell I am!!
I came on Forumosa that day and found I had a PM from Iron Lady from way back. I also was looking at this thread. I read her message offering me help from way before and wanted to write her back, but I thought it didn’t work (I hit a button on my mouse before I was finished and the post disappeared on me), so I sent her another message. I guess I posted here instead because I was looking here too. Sorry about the confusion. I posted another message asking about schools in Hsinchu (where I am working happily, but my contract will be up soon and Iwant advice on schools in the area) which is why I came on here again. I guess I got confused with all the things I’d read and posted! Iron Lady offered me help back in May when I lost my job and had asked about the money sit., and I hadn’t gotten the message (I didn’t know how private messaging worked). I don’t usually come on here, but I wanted to ask about those schools. I’m sorry I confused everyone. You must think I’m crazy to have made a mistake like that. I’m not really used to this forum thing, I usually just read and don’t post.
While I’m here, I will say, I agree that you have to watch the way you act while your working, and be careful with your attitude towards your boss, I know where that got me… You may have certain rights where you come from , but you can’t expect they carry over here. Face is really important, and if you can’t or don’t want to deal with it, you’ll have alot of trouble here.
As the guest pointed out, I was let go by my school, and it was partially my fault, but I’ve mistakenly made you believe I TALK GOOD ENGLISH and I are the same person when we are not. I’m sorry. I hope you believe, I didn’t mean to cause confusion. I need to pay more atttention when I’m doing this forum thing. sorry sorry sorry!!!
