I was Attacked by my boss, her daughter AND her husband

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
41

Firstly, I’m not a teacher here, but I have heard about this and other sorts of things from teachers. It seems many of the teachers I have talked to are employed in situations where a contract wouldn’t be binding if push came to shove (i.e. in court). This is due to the fact that they are working in an illegal situations (e.g.Registered with an ‘official school’ but working for another school or kindergarten, or just plain working illegally etc)

So, really, what good is a contract at all if it can never be enforced outside of the two parties that made it? The withholding of $$$ is the only thing the school can use to enforce some sort of commitment, so illegal or not, it is more effective for them and a whole lot less hassle than arguing over a contract. Otherwise teachers would get a job, hunt for a better one then quit at no notice, knowing the school won’t/can’t do diddly.

My view regarding a bond/penalty would be to make the assumption that you will NEVER see it again no matter who is at fault, and calculate the overall contract’s worth based on that assumption.
e.g. Monthly pay x length of contract - penalty clause = total contract income.

If you happen to get it back then that’s a bonus.

ITALKGOODENGLISH, I hope you get your cash, I sincerely do.
But what would be of more value to you now is to learn what you can from the whole ugly experience and move on.

42

Thanks, actually my money is waiting for me at the labor affairs office and I get to pick it up tomorrow. The school wsa really scared by the involvement of the labor board, so they weren’t about to argue with the labor woman that contacted them. I know now that it is worth the fight in the beginning, or just looking for a new job if the school insists on taking a deposit or instituing a retainer in the contract. It IS illegal, that much I have learned from this experience. Also, if everyone tells you that your boss is a bit, well, whatever, but maybe they are better now, your boss is probably going to treat you as badly as they treated everyone else. I guess it’s just not worth it to “see for yourself”. Trust the other teachers opinions about bosses first, I’ve definitely learned that. And people that come onto this forum with actual advice are very helpful. It’s just too bad that you have to sift through a lot of nonsense to find the good advice.

43

Isn’t that kind of that way it is in life, too? :wink:

44

yes :notworthy:

45

eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewt … ade#176964

I thought I’d post a link to show how Toesave has taken to lurking after me, in one of his many aliases, on another forum.

Toe, I think what you wrote to the OP in this thread was mean spirited, misinformed, unhelpful and just plain wrong. You’re entitled to your opinion, though. And I respect that. However, please grow up and don’t lurk after me on other forums. Don’t like me? Ignore me. But otherwise grow up.

46

Now if I was working in England.

I was late for work and I didn’t phone in ( no matter the reason why)

I want a day off for something which can be done on my own time.

I quit my job although I said I would work for a year and signed a contract saying this.

I signed a contract , not forced, saying that if I didn’t do the whole year I would be fined.

I then say I don’t want to work for you because I don’t like you.

But I will keep working for another two weeks but you don’t know if I will do a good job, and tell all your students that you are bad and that it is a crap school and they should all leave.

I have already argued with you many times since I began in your school.

Oh OK no problem!!!

If you were anywhere else in the world they would have let you leave and not paid you your last months wage and maybe take legal action against you.

Again, the same as Toesave. I am sorry about the violence and the daughter needs a good kicking but would you really of acted the same in your own country and then expect nothing to happen?

47

[quote=“bigal”]Now if I was working in England.

I was late for work and I didn’t phone in ( no matter the reason why)

I want a day off for something which can be done on my own time.

I quit my job although I said I would work for a year and signed a contract saying this.

I signed a contract , not forced, saying that if I didn’t do the whole year I would be fined.

I then say I don’t want to work for you because I don’t like you.

But I will keep working for another two weeks but you don’t know if I will do a good job, and tell all your students that you are bad and that it is a crap school and they should all leave.

I have already argued with you many times since I began in your school.

Oh OK no problem!!!

If you were anywhere else in the world they would have let you leave and not paid you your last months wage and maybe take legal action against you.

Again, the same as Toesave. I am sorry about the violence and the daughter needs a good kicking but would you really of acted the same in your own country and then expect nothing to happen?[/quote]
Bullshit. Trying to force someone to sign a quitclaim, physically attacking the person when she tries to leave with the quitclaim to get it looked at, and then withholding pay? Not even the Manager From Hell (well, ok, he’d actually worked at AOL before he joined up with the Company From Hell) whom I worked for about four years ago tried to pull crap like that.

Those weasels even paid me an extra week of pay for time that I DIDN’T work, because our contract was set up in such a way as to put them in a corner on it and they preferred to pay rather than leave the slightest risk of being sued. But withhold pay? Even make a threat? Hell no.

You might want to actually wake up and smell the amphetamines, and notice that the buxiban backed down the instant the Labor people got involved. . . . Clearly they realized they were f*cked.

48

[quote=“truant”]Otherwise teachers would get a job, hunt for a better one then quit at no notice, knowing the school won’t/can’t do diddly.

[/quote]

Why not? It’s what people back home do all the time. Like someone said upthread, back where I come from when you quit you quit, and the boss has to pay you for all hours you’ve actually worked. None of this withholding pay you’ve earned through your own hard toil bullshit.

Isn’t that the way capitalism is supposed to work? As an employee, you have the right to move on to greener pastures if such an opportunity presents itself. The management pays you just enough and treats you just well enough to prevent you from leaving for the company across the street with better benefits. The employees work just as hard and competently to prevent themselves from being fired & maintain profits for the company so that their job security isn’t threatened by layoffs. In theory, it’s a two-way street that - again, theoretically - balances the interests of employer and employee in equilibrium.

However, that’s the West. In the East…sigh. This society has a long way to go as far as basic labor rights are concerned, even for native citizens, much less foreigners. It’s only a one-way street here, with the employer having all the cards stacked in their deck. If they have a right to fire me with no notice, and I can’t do diddly about it, as is the case with all foreign teachers in Taiwan (you have NO job security in this biz), don’t I have the right to do the same?

49

I can’t believe how people have pounced on this person. Who cares about pissing off some sorry little bushiban owners in bumfuck nowhere? They are obviously in a league WAY, WAY LOWER than any of the cram school owners and managers who post on this board.

Been there, done that–and there’s a bazillion other English teaching jobs to move on to.

50

Balance of power is all it is. Fortunately places like this are helping to even it out.

51

[quote=“mod lang”][quote=“truant”]Otherwise teachers would get a job, hunt for a better one then quit at no notice, knowing the school won’t/can’t do diddly.

[/quote]Why not? [/quote]

I’m not saying whether this is right or not, but this is why they withhold $$$. If this was the practice by employers in the US or Canada or where ever you refer to, then employees msybe would think twice about quitting.
As I mentioned later on in my post, if I wanted to leave, I would just go, as I would have planned on never seeing that $$$ again anyway, and if I felt genuinely screwed by my employer, putting them in the shit like that would be money well spent.

52

I never said that your manner of resignation entitled your employer to treat you however she pleased. In fact, I indicated that if she chose to fire you, then she would most likely owe you severance pay.

Whatever. BTW, its better [color=red]than[/color].

You’re right. I only know what you posted here.

Suit yourself.

That’s a ridiculous statement.

Oh, its nothing. Don’t mention it.

53

Your scooter doesn’t work. That’s your responsibility, not your employer’s responsibility. Your telephone doesn’t work. That’s your responsibility too.

Sorry if my comments are annoying. However, while I certainly do not condone your employer’s assault on you nor your employer’s attempt to cheat you, I do understand why your employer might have been perturbed at your tardy arrival to work.

54

What is it about Taiwan that makes people so unreliable. I mean, I am always early for work. If I am unable to make it to work I call right away. If my bike breaks down I will park my bike and hop in a cab. Your job is a responsibility let’s not forget that.

Andy

55

Absolutely the employer is entitled to a bit of a tiff when his/her employee shows up late, but good god it seems like the poor girl ran into a string of bad luck there. And still she managed to get a call in through her boyfriend “and” make it in only ten minutes late. A reasonable employer would have shown a bit of understanding when the details were explained. It is not like she was late for a court case or something.

I guess I am lucky. A boss like that wouldn’t last five minutes with me because I have the power (economic independance) that allows me to leave any situation that I am not comfortable in. It has been so long since I have caught shit for anything from an employer that I hardly remember what it feels like.

56

[quote=“bob”]Absolutely the employer is entitled to a bit of a tiff when his/her employee shows up late, but good god it seems like the poor girl ran into a string of bad luck there. And still she managed to get a call in through her boyfriend “and” make it in only ten minutes late. A reasonable employer would have shown a bit of understanding when the details were explained. It is not like she was late for a court case or something.
[/quote]

If you are supposed to be at work at 2:00 don’t show up at 2:10. Leave a little bit early. I can probably guess that she complained to her boss. She should have said “I’m sorry I was late, won’t happen again.” but I guess she got defensive and things go out of hand from there.

57

And I can guess she came in all flustered and began apologizing all over the place. That is the poilte thing to do in a situation like this because otherwise you look like you don’t care. The employer accepts the apology after a few seconds. That is the polite and reasonable thing to do in a situation like this because otherwise it looks like you have no understanding of the fact that shit happens. There is no point telling someone to leave their house earlier “in case” something happens on the way to work. :loco:

58

Man oh man…maybe my comments were harsh. It’s a harsh world. You worked for these people for 7 months and you now act all surprised when she loses it on you?

Read what I wrote without getting defensivey-pants and you’ll see that I do sympathize with you…for the level of violence that the situation sank to…however, knowing that you were late, hadn’t called, etc…all the things Tigerman has pointed out to you without my tendency to rant hyperbole, could you not have approached the situation somewhat more contritely?

A simple piesay, and here’s my two weeks notice, I am leaving for personal reasons…and none of this need have happened…

But you, because you didn’t want to give her any face, caused her to lose buckets of it, instigated the situation. If this were a hockey game, you’d get an extra 2 minutes.

You made your bed and now you are laying in it. Elizabeth, alot of bosses in this country are like this…I have even encountered my share of foreign managers that are even worse. After 7 months, didn’t you have enough clues to realize things could escalate beyond your comfort zone of passive-aggressiveness? You come here expecting everyone to be all, “Poor Elizabeth”…well young lady, forumosa is full of life lessons…try to find the stuff that matters to you and weed out the rest. If you don’t like what I have to say, hey…you don’t have to read. But don’t tell me I am hateful…I am speaking my mind…that’s what this place is all about.

59

Toe, you’ve been in the country long enough to know that bosses often lose their temper like this when they want someone to quit. They escalate the situation on purpose.

I’ve seen bosses grovel to keep someone who wanted to quit and then turn around the next day and insult them to their face to force the person to quit in anger. Why? Because they found someone willing to start the next day.

But when you quit in anger, who wins? Not you unless you have a job to go to the next day. No, it’s the boss that wins which is why in better labor markets you cannot fire someone without compensation.

And Toe, you’re a Canadian so don’t go around pretending people don’t tell their boss off and then work till the end of the month or the end of a contract. You know as well as I do how hard it is to fire someone in the uncleland.

Bullshit. As soon as a replacement was found Elizabeth would have been told not to come in anymore. She would not have been compensated for loss of wages for whatever remained of her two weeks. If she didn’t agree then another fight would have started in which, once again, the boss would have escalated the situation until Elizabeth quit without asking for compensation (which is exactly what the boss wanted).

In Taiwan, the culture, the ettiquette, etc, conspire to give the boss power. When you play the “face” game, you lose as often as you win. Might as well keep your self-respect and never bother to grovel and faun and squirm.

60

Thank you for some perspective and thoughtful input on the issue, Mucha Man.

Some bosses are just pricks and Elizabeth has had the misfortune to run into one.

Playing the face game would not have helped at all. The guy was a prick, out to commit illegal acts and screw the employee. That’s blazingly obvious in this case.

I think OP needs support in this case and not condemnation from fellow foreigners who try to pass themselves off as more localized than the locals themselves.