Originally posted by Dan Jacobson: We could say “even those of us who
support Taiwan independence support mayor Ma on this”. Please don’t -
you’ll just lose credibility. I still remember the rolled eyes and
barely suppressed groans when you pulled that one at the meeting at
Taipei City Hall with the various foreign representatives of
multinationals and foreign governments. No matter how we feel about
it, nobody wants to hear our political views. We have a little bit
more leeway with language issues, let’s not blow the opportunity.
OK, but I’m often branded as a unificationist for favoring hanyu
pinyin. If I just smile and change the subject, that means they are
right. So I say “see, the US is independent of England but still can
use English”. But then they say that it is spelled differently bla
Also, if you are concerned about building credibility and making Ma
and Hanyu Pinyin look good to the rest of Taiwan, shouldn’t you dress
a little bit more ~ahem~ formally than you did last time? That’s just
good manners. Taiwanese tend to not take too seriously those with an
http://jidanni.org/lang/pinyin/images/19990407twrb.jpg nice white
shirt, http://jidanni.org/lang/pinyin/images/20001013tv.jpg nice plaid
[faded vertical along buttons???]. Nice red in this shot with Lo
Anyway, Hartzell is more kempt
http://jidanni.org/lang/pinyin/images/20001012lhb.jpg however he is
liable to make embarrassing pinyin mistakes. Anyway, mom bought me a
new pair of sneakers, however she said they were not to be used for
going to Taibei for silly endless arguments.
quote: I know multiple forms of pinyin–Wade Giles, Hanyu Pinyin, the
French sinological Pinyin (used in Needham), and the one James Legge
used in his translations. All of them work well when applied
consistently as will Tongyong.
How can the word consistently be put in the same sentence as the word
http://jidanni.org/lang/pinyin/images/19980718shifu_rd.jpg is a
picture of Yu Boquan, Mr. Tongyong, all thumbs up about this sign he
just had hung. I am all thumbs up too because it also happens to
match hanyu pinyin.
Now Mr. Yu wants to change his sign along with the spelling of 1/3 of
the streets of Taibei from what he hung last time. This sign he wants
to change to Shihfu instead of Shifu. He is not forthcoming about
this. E.g. his fellow commission members don’t know that what he hung
last time, “ZhongSiao” is now no good and must be rehung with
JhongSiao. And so on for 1/3 of the signs in his system. On the job
quote:Small markers of identity and difference are important to small
countries with large neighbors.
quote: There is also a long historical tradition in East Asian
countries that associates legitimacy and sovreignity with regimes have
the power to dictate the form of the written language.
isn’t it the “emperor’s new clothes” to argue about the spelling of
Nanjing, Beiping, Tianjin, Xuzhou, etc. etc. roads without instead
first removing the China worship in the place name? Me? Content:
whatever you like, but use the international spelling standard for
whatever characters appear.
If Taiwan can’t distinguish itself through its democracy and culture,
some romanization system by a local “scholar” just ain’t gonna do the
Yu Boquan is a particularly sorry one. For each language he
offers[d?] several plans, that way you are certain to find one you
like. “Vote for me and I will make the minimum wage $1.23, $3.21, or
$2.31!” what does that mean?
quote: Hundreds of thousands of school children would benefit if a
system could be devised that would cover Hakka and Minnan (if you
think Tongyong can’t do that, prove it to me with specific examples
rather than just saying it can’t be done.)
I’m not in the mood to do other people’s homework tonight. You show me
the comparison charts for the Tongyong schemes of Hakka and Minnan and
Mandarin. And don’t forget to add in the schemes for all the languages
of Taiwan’s tribes as well, because Tongyong has been touted as a
one-fits-all system. If you’re advocating the system, show it to
us. But you might have a hard time finding information.
why can [several of Tongyong’s many Minnan schemes, which they never
reached a conclusion on] borrow Hakka’s V while at the same time not
allowing any borrowing by Mandarin? Why are the rules so strict about
Mandarin and then the R freely used elsewhere even though it sounds
different? And if it’s OK to sound different than why Tongyong in
the first place. Why is “China Pinyin”'s ZH so bad when C is OK, and
ZH was OK as can be seen by him hanging “ZhongSiao” Rd.
Anyway it is embarrassing that a fellow foreigner [linux dude, infact]
has been taken in by the billuious arguments of the Tongyong camp,
without first checking the facts to see if it is indeed Tongyong after
You see, not everything Green is good. For instance, with Peng
Mingmin, last presidential candidate, one never hears about any
inconsistentcies. However, as you can see on my website, Yu Boquan is
loaded with them.
Anyways, Tongyong is an oxymoron… with only so many alphabets and so
many sounds, you just can’t do it. That’s what the International
Phonetic Alphabet is for. However the IPA is not for road signs.
quote:Why the obsession? Is it related to our general
disenfranchisement here in Taiwan?
No sh*t, good luck trying to get even one foreign representative at
the ministry of Education meetings where these things are decided.
How would we know what is good for us anyway. In contrast, Mayor Ma
seems to listen. Go ask the Civil Affairs chief, Lin Zhengxiu. At
first they were apprehensive about hanyu pinyin too, until we all told
him over and over that’s what we want. There, that rules out a
unification plot by the Taibei city gov’t.
No, Yu isn’t a bad person. He just is like some of those idealists
“too busy with the campaign to worry about paying the bills or taking
out the trash or using other peoples’ land”…