The goal of allowing dual citizenship without renunciation is a fine one.
The reason I naturalized was so I didn’t need an ROC wife to use to put everything in her name on it. I wanted to do that for myself. Yes you use a workaround, lot’s of people do.
Also unlike others I have no intention of leaving Taiwan. My home is here in Taiwan. For others it is not the same.
Some people want everything out of Taiwan but are not prepared to take that leap of faith and naturalize. I understand that. If this petition does not get the 5000 people to sign it then try again and have better preparation on promoting it.
People keep on talking about reciprocity. No country makes citizenship laws based on reciprocity. It’s in your hopes and dreams.
For some renunciation is one step beyond but for others it’s a step forward. I am glad I made the choice to naturalize knowing I could not resume or get PR in Australia. My mere mortal presence as an ROC citizen was all that I required.
Every country has work arounds that need to be done. A good German friend of mine who immigrated to Australia could not get Australian government contracts for his company as a non citizen. He did not want to renounce German citizenship and I told him Germany in certain circumstances did allow Germans dual citizenship. He and his wife and children spent 3 months every year in Germany. So the workaround was the he and his children were finally allowed Australian citizenship without losing German citizenship. It cost quite a lot of money to do that.
So here’s the kicker, a foreigner not allowed to own a certain type of business uses an ROC citizen proxy to get around the fact they cannot legally do this business.
Sounds like a plan. Sounds like a good reason to marry an ROC partner instead of naturalizing.
That’s right! You get 6 months + renewal from here in Taiwan (with just a stamp), so it’s almost like a 1 year continous visa, because extension is never denied here at MOFA. The issue is actually getting the 6 months visa from TECO. Overall the visa process is a nightmare.
a) It’s incredibly inconvenient to do visa runs with sick, old disabled parents that you have to personally accompany.
b) TECO restricts where people from “designated” countries can apply, so I can’t get their visas from HK, Philippines or Korea. I have to go all the way to the Middle East. Each visa run for my parents costs me up to 200,000 NTD easily.
c) TECO’s never actually give you the visa easily. You have to fight for it each time. Twice I was given wrong visas which had to be replaced here in Taiwan.
TBH, I am grateful that this option even exists. But seriously, this can be improved so much more.
I think parents on visas are good for Taiwan. First, they only consume and spend. They don’t have access to any govt funds. My father takes nothing from Taiwan, but I spend a lot of money feeding, and keeping him here, including for his healthcare.
Plus having wise old people from different races, backgrounds, and cultures, is a good thing for Taiwan. They help anchor the foreigners who want to make Taiwan their home and they add a bit of flavor to Taiwanese society in general.
By the way, everywhere I take my dad, Taiwanese people like him. They are super nice to him. I don’t know but I think Taiwanese would be more open to foreign parents, just as long as they don’t use any govt. funds or take away jobs from locals.
It would be great if Taiwan offered real extended visas for parents, ideally 2 years for parents of foreign professionals, 3 years for APRC holders, and 5 years for naturalized citizens.
Honestly, I’d even settle for 1-year visa + 1-year extension.
This post of yours I actually am sort of in support of. I agree mostly.
I agree on not wanting to rely on a Taiwanese Citizen for many of our basic “freedoms”. Be it wife or otherwise. We should be allowed to have equal rights and naturalize as such, just like taiwanese are allowed to in our countries of origin. However, we don’t have such basic fairness.
But
I disagree with your assumption that many of us may leave. Like you, me and many I know are here for the long game. Even war. Many of us dont even contemplated the conversation because this IS our home! Either for a long time or even since birth. I REALLY dont want to become a refugee in the country I was born in. This is OUR home. Many of us have families, deep connections to the land and people. You’re not the only one willing to die for the freedom and evolution Taiwan should be continuing to promote!!! Note, continuing. This great nation was full fucking steam ahead on improving human rights. I hope/wish we can have that same level of passion we once did when people were being murdered dissappear or put on dungeons on green island.
Many of us also live and breath local traditions. Work in the mountains. We don’t need an aboriginal paperwork to say we aren’t tied to the land. We aren’t all transient English teachers wanting a short term experience. Seriously.
You know what I find funny? We won’t go to green island torture camps anymore (at least not as long as we don’t become China) and yet we are LESS willing to fight for human rights now than those brave souls were then. This is disappointing…the slackers that are uncaring. This will take a lot of work by many people, to turn this tide around.
For some it’s one step beyond, for others it’s one step forward. For many more it’s one giant step backwards that we can’t have the same rights. That’s the issue. It’s hypocrisy at its finest. Agree or not, it’s a fact. And yes, the reciprocalbthj gis an issue because Taiwan loves playing his narrative to appease foreign tools. It’s gross as all fuck, the level of double standard.
Yes, many countries have work arounds. You with your long history here surely realize and benefit from the many workarounds today that didn’t exist in your day. As does everyone. Also, many suffer. by proxy, you have to admit many work arounds you had/have the privilege of gaining from didn’t exist before you. Why? Because people with more passion and energy actually gave a fuck about not only others, but their country to sacrifice themselves for the betterment of the future. Our current time. Appreciate your privilege by accepting others worked their fucking ass off for you to have what you got. Then we should follow up by doing the same for our future generations, albiet we have it real fucking easy today. But for some ts too hard to care, protest, sign petitions or actually make problems publicly for what’s right. Definition of spoiled brats, we are.
Why should we not continue the battle on improving lives and human rights now? Just because we are super comfortable now and have money and food doesn’t mean the battle stops. If anything, we should be fighting harder simply because we dont face the hardships generations before us had to face to even say a fraction of what we are talking about even in this thread, nevermind society.
This freedom you enjoy today isn’t a right, it’s a fucking responsibility. If you come from Australia, or other western allies during ww2,this should be quite obvious to you. Prevention is better than a resolution. And it’s easy as balls to care today in 2024 compared to say the 1960s Taiwan. We should respect our elders by continuing their fight for better.
The kicker is I was legally allowed to run my business for about a decade. They took that right away from me when I went to an APRC from an arc. Kicker? Bet your ass it is! To this day I am fightng the MOA and health ministries about this. Now they say I must be a citizen with ID to do even a fraction of the hings i had already setup well in the past. Explain that away…lol. I had already lived here for many years, setup camp and they slipped it away. I push hard and get allowed into meetings because people are nice and break the rules. But proper government events, of which I used to be part of, they will not allow me to join on paper, nor officially. Choices, sure…
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not crying, wanting tears or anything of the such. Just pointing out many people get shafted here. The game is rigged. And my single point is we should fucking care enough to fight to change that.
Most local businesses (citizens) go out of their way to avoid paying the already relatively low taxes. Perhaps it’s related to being unimpressed with results?
The government runs LOADS of businesses. I hink I mentioned that above. Taiwans national funding isn’t just tax based, loads of psuedo governemnt corporations. I believe my original point on this is that this is at odds with he private sector because government companies have unfair advantages.
Taiwan is clearly run better than the USA, despite our many flaws.
From a business point of view, this is statement is far from accurate. I’ve ran businesses in SE Asia, HK, and still maintain multiple businesses in the US and here in Taiwan and there is not a place better setup for businesses than HK, Singapore or the USA. For those SMB’s who focus on local economy and stay under NTD$5 mil maybe it’s a great place to run a business, but once you start dealing in international trade or jump over that threshold there is no comparison to the other places I mentioned.
You do. There is nothing stopping you naturalizing you just choose not to.
My work around to become my company president and owner that I could not do as a foreigner was to naturalize. I took that leap of faith.
If you are here for the long term until you end your days here why not do the same? I know it’s a tough call.
You say the game is rigged. I agree.
Then pull out your Joker which is the naturalization card.
Worked for me.
They did? Dang. Nobody in Australia did. A government of the day passed legislation. There were no petitions flying about. Government had policy advisers look at a law and decided to change it in April 2002 to allow dual citizenship then made a new citizenship Act in 2007 to allow ex citizens to resume. It’s just a policy that the government decided on changing but it has to be enacted in law. It’s not like there were petitions or protests by Australian citizens.
Lets see now… my grandfather buried in Japan in 1946 died of radiation sickness…
My mother met my father in Japan as he was posted there for the reconstruction of Japan as an allied soldier as was his younger brother. They were called in as my uncle lied about his age and someone discovered that his birth certificate was a forgery and supposedly were born only a few months apart lol He retired as a Major.
He met his wife in Japan. My fathers youngest brother flew choppers in the Vietnam war. He used to fly in supplies and pick up the wounded.
He was shot down but was not captured.
I missed Vietnam draft by 3 years as the war ended first.
Yeah that’s the shit happens in our lives. Not fair but not earth shattering as you had other options to keep on doing what you are doing. That old work around thingy.
In every country in the world people use legal means to lower taxes for businesses and themselves. Nothing new about this.
My clients pay into my company account from abroad. They pay me once a year for services. The incoming amount means I have to go to my bank with my company chop and my ID card and hop to do the incoming transfer. I then pay taxes on the incoming. My accountant let’s me know what I need to pay.
It’s just business not selfishness or greed to minimize taxes. It’s following the law is all.
