Illegal, or just a bit dodgy?

Discussion Open Forum
1

Is this illegal, or just a bit dodgy? Last year my school had a Ministry of Education inspection and, as part of the inspection, some teachers, including me, were interviewed by the inspectors. The school “passed” whatever the inspection was inspecting. We have a loose association with another school in the same area and early next year they are going to have a similar inspection. BUT, apparently they don’t have enough foreign teachers. So I, and some of my foreign colleagues, have been asked to take part in the inspection as if we taught at that school – which we don’t and never have. In other words, we have to pretend we are working for the school that our school has a loose association with. This sounds like it could end in tears (especially if the inspectors are the same team). At worst it sounds to me like fraud, and at the least it sounds a bit dodgy. Dodgy, I don’t mind, but anything stronger and I would start to fear for the health of my ARC, which is probably the most important thing in my life at the moment as I am having a great time here definitely do not want to leave Taiwan.
Has anyone experienced this situation, does anyone know if there are any real dangers? Suggestions?

Regards All

2

[i]All my bags are packed
Im ready to go
Im standin here outside your door
I hate to wake you up to say goodbye
But the dawn is breakin
Its early morn
The taxis waitin
Hes blowin his horn
Already Im so lonesome
I could die

So kiss me and smile for me
Tell me that youll wait for me
Hold me like youll never let me go
cause Im leavin on a jet plane
Dont know when Ill be back again
Oh babe, I hate to go

But, Im leavin on a jet plane
Dont know when Ill be back again
Oh babe, I hate to go[/i]

3

Hey, this is an interesting twist on “run out the back door; the inspectors are here.”

They want you to run over to where the wolves . . . erm I mean inspectors are.

Good luck.

Sounds clearly illegal to me.

If I had been one of the few that was interviewed, I would argue that other (less recognizable) teachers should take the fall . . . erm I mean help out with this one.

4

Erm, doesn’t your ARC mention your place of work?

5

[quote=“irishstu”]Erm, doesn’t your ARC mention your place of work?[/quote]Right. And I think it’s likely the inspectors will want to see people’s ARCs. The OP should really try to avoid the fake rollcall.

6

[quote=“Alazon”]Is this illegal, or just a bit dodgy? Last year my school had a Ministry of Education inspection and, as part of the inspection, some teachers, including me, were interviewed by the inspectors. The school “passed” whatever the inspection was inspecting. We have a loose association with another school in the same area and early next year they are going to have a similar inspection. BUT, apparently they don’t have enough foreign teachers. So I, and some of my foreign colleagues, have been asked to take part in the inspection as if we taught at that school – which we don’t and never have. In other words, we have to pretend we are working for the school that our school has a loose association with. This sounds like it could end in tears (especially if the inspectors are the same team). At worst it sounds to me like fraud, and at the least it sounds a bit dodgy. Dodgy, I don’t mind, but anything stronger and I would start to fear for the health of my ARC, which is probably the most important thing in my life at the moment as I am having a great time here definitely do not want to leave Taiwan.
Has anyone experienced this situation, does anyone know if there are any real dangers? Suggestions?

Regards All[/quote]

Dude you have to be kidding me what are you fucking retarded? You are actually asking if it is illegal to pretend that you work at a school for the [color=#FF0000]Government inspectors[/color]? :roflmao: What the fuck is wrong with you, Where in the world is it not illegal to misrepresent yourself to Federal inspectors?

Not trying to mean here but come on man!

7

You can only legally work at the place that’s listed on your ARC. Is your boss trying to get rid of you? Or might they just be unaware of this fact?

8

[quote=“shifty”]Dude you have to be kidding me what are you fucking retarded? You are actually asking if it is illegal to pretend that you work at a school for the [color=#FF0000]Government inspectors[/color]? :roflmao: What the fuck is wrong with you, Where in the world is it not illegal to misrepresent yourself to Federal inspectors?

Not trying to mean here but come on man![/quote]Well, to be fair, he was asking about the level of dodginess. Whether it was technically illegal but the sort of thing people would turn a blind eye to, or whether there was a serious risk of him being deported. And we all agree it’s the latter. So that’s useful information in that he knows now that he really should do whatever he can to avoid the fake rollcall.

9

[quote=“zender”]Hey, this is an interesting twist on “run out the back door; the inspectors are here.” They want you to run over to where the wolves . . . erm I mean inspectors are.[/quote]Yeah, this is a new one for me, too. I’ve heard of people having an ARC for one school and being asked to work for another that’s not on their ARC, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone being asked to pretend to work for a school that’s not on their ARC.

[quote=“twonavels”]. . . Or might they just be unaware of this fact?[/quote]That’s what I’m wondering. Maybe the original poster should gently, tactfully ask them if they know that it’s illegal. Maybe he should also gently, tactfully explain to them that it looks like a really easy way to get busted.

twonavels already fully answered the OP’s question, but while twonavels was posting I was looking up and copying all this stuff, and I’ve just got to paste it, so. . . .

[color=#FF0000]CAVEAT:[/color] I don’t really know anything, I just read what others write, and I sometimes look at translations of the law (which may be mistranslations, may be outdated, may be otherwise wrong, or may have been misread by me).

But anyway, here are my pastings:

Below is an English translation of the pertinent parts of the Employment Services Act, taken from the Ministry of Justice website.

This seems to pertain to your situation:

[quote]Article 73
Where any of the following circumstances has arisen or existed with respect to a Foreign Worker, the Employment Permit therefore shall be annulled:

  1. The employed Foreign Worker has engaged in work for an Employer who is not stated in the Permit. . . .[/quote]

This seems to pertain to your employer’s situation:

[quote]Article 57
As for employment of Foreign Worker(s), Employer shall not engage in any of the following:

  1. Employing a Foreign Worker without Permit or after the expiration of Permit therefore, or a Foreign Worker that has been permitted to be employed at the same time by a third party;
  2. Employing in the name of the Employer a Foreign Worker, but in reality causing that Foreign Worker engage in work for a third party;
  3. Appointing the employed Foreign Worker to engage in work that is not within the sphere of the Permit;

Article 63
Anyone that violates . . . Subparagraph 1 or 2 of Article 57 shall be fined therefore an amount of at least one hundred and fifty thousand New Taiwan Dollars (NT$ 150,000) and at most seven hundred and fifty thousand New Taiwan Dollars (NT$ 750,000); anyone with a recurrent violation of the same provision above-mentioned within five (5) years shall be imprisoned for a term of at most three (3) years, or detained for hard labor, and/or penalized for an amount of at most one million and two hundred thousand New Taiwan Dollars (NT$ 1,200,000).

Article 68
Anyone that violates . . . Subparagraph 3 or 4 of Article 57 . . . shall be fined therefore an amount of at least thirty thousand New Taiwan Dollars (NT$ 30,000) and at most one hundred and fifty thousand New Taiwan Dollars (NT$ 150,000).[/quote]
I found the above information at law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/Fnews/FnewsCo … =undefined . It’s assigned a date of July 11, 2007.

Additionally, here are a couple of quotes from this board:

[quote=“ML McLean”]If the second school is not on your ARC, you are illegally working.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 85#p450985

[quote=“ML McLean”] Practically speaking for those in the chain schools, when you’re being asked to sub in a different location, be sure you let the school know that they are asking you to break the law and work illegally.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 58#p451958

10

Charlie Jack: Thanks for the definitive answer, most helpful to be able, as a last resort, to quote something official. Great. :notworthy:

Elektronisk: Point taken, and nicely put, thanks.

Two Navels: I doubt the boss is trying to get rid of me, because he’s asked ALL the foreign teachers to do this. But who knows?

And thanks for the other replies too, I guess I’ll have to be a bit confrontational, or develop a convenient illness. On the other hand, from the posts of ML McLean and others (pointed out by Charlie Jack) it seems that I should be OK IF I have a work permit from the other school, I wasn’t aware I could have multiple work permits on my ARC. Maybe the problem could be solved to everyone’s satisfaction.

Monkey man (Shifty): Forget to take the tranquilizers again today did we? Naughty! :no-no:

11

Actually I am still drunk from yesterday but regardless be careful your boss obviously has no problems risking your deportation for their own benefit.

12

[quote=“Alazon”]Charlie Jack: Thanks. . . .[/quote] You’re welcome.

13

I’m wondering whether your original school has filled in your timetable with hours being worked in another place ie the OTHER school. ( not sure you can do this though.)

Meaning that you HAVE to be in the other school at a certain time. Do you fulfill the minimum hours required for your school?

Did they actually put your ARC through the other school and your already in s_____t?

I don’t see why they have to have foreign teachers at a school. You don’t have to have foreign teachers to run a Bushiban. Can you read Chinese? Where does your ARC say your place of work is?

14

[quote=“bigal”]Did they actually put your ARC through the other school . . . ?[/quote] That’s a good question. I didn’t think of that.

[quote=“bigal”]I don’t see why they have to have foreign teachers at a school.[/quote]Yeah, I didn’t understand that part either.

[quote=“bigal”]Where does your ARC say your place of work is?[/quote] That’s a good idea. Alazon, if you haven’t already done it, maybe you should check out the school name and address on your ARC.

15

What many schools do is they report a payroll to the gov. which includes the salary of “fictitious” teachers. All of it is declared under a brother, sister, friend’s name, etc. In reality, the salary is never paid to anyone, but the taxes are much lower (only 6%) if it is declared on the payroll as opposed to being declared as profit. It’s a very common tax scam. By increasing the school’s over-head, they effectively reduce how much they are taxed.

marboulette

16

Thanks for that info, marboulette. I’ve learned some things from this thread.