Immigrating to Taiwan

Legal Human Rights
41

HARTZELL SAYS However, it is the way that the Ministry of the Interior sees westerners. Hence, according to the Nationality Law, foreigners must renounce original nationality before obtaining Taiwan nationality.

The question arises: Would it ever be possible to have such a legal stipulation changed? I would be interested in general comments from the community.[/quote]

So your idea of foreigners is only westerners, how conceited is that?

It’s all foreigners, not only the westerners.

Many countries in the world have this policy. You’d think that Taiwan was the only country the way you rant and rave about it Hartzell. Some countries allow their citizens dual nationality. The USA only recently (1998) allowed US national to remain US citizens after obtaining other citizenships. Australia not also does, which is also a recent change.

If you really intend to see out your life here can’t see why your too chickenshit to become an ROC national. It’s not the end of the world you know, and there are some real benefits.

Every country has the right to determine it’s own immigration policies and citizenship laws. You’re just too gutless to become an ROC Citizen. Too many posts about Not Recognized & Cessation have gone to your head.

More tea?

42

[quote=“Poagao”]In addition to renouncing your previous citizenship(s), which in the case of the US you cannot do in Taiwan as there’s no real embassy here, you must also be a relation of a Taiwanese person, through birth, adoption, marriage, etc. I imagine there are provisions for people with extremely large amounts of money to do it as well, but they probably also have to renounce their previous citizenships. Then again, being extremely rich, they can probably just as quickly purchase another passport.

I only know of one other person besides myself to have actually done it. He’s a British man, over conscription age, who was born to missionaries in China. There might be many others I haven’t heard of, however.[/quote]

I did it and I wasnt married. Cooling Tower has done it and he isn’t married either. He managed to renounce his US citizenship without leaving Taiwan, And I renounced Australian citizenship without leaving Taiwan. We’re both poor, money has nothing to do with it.

Gov Attache is in the process, he ain’t married, and he’s poor too.
The other week when I visited his cave we had a good chat about how he was progressing and what documents he had outstanding. And there’s also my Afghan friend Kapoor, he’s done it too… Damn soon we can start a club.

43

I agree entirely. However, Taiwan is not a country. So what is the argument?

More tea?

44

[quote=“Satellite TV”]
I did it and I wasn’t married. Cooling Tower has done it and he isn’t married either. He managed to renounce his US citizenship without leaving Taiwan, And I renounced Australian citizenship without leaving Taiwan. We’re both poor, money has nothing to do with it.

Gov Attache is in the process, he ain’t married, and he’s poor too.
The other week when I visited his cave we had a good chat about how he was progressing and what documents he had outstanding. And there’s also my Afghan friend Kapoor, he’s done it too… Damn soon we can start a club.[/quote]

Yes, you’re right; I believe that’s the situation today. AIT now allows renunciations, but they didn’t ten years ago. I also think the rules may have been different back when I did it, but I could be wrong. Most people seem to assume I’m married when I tell them I’m a citizen. I wonder if the majority of foreign nationals who immigrate here are married or not when they go through the process of naturalization?

45

I would assume that about 99% are SE Asian (or mainland) brides - and that the laws are designed to address them.

I’m afraid that you, Satellite TV, et al are statistically insignificant :slight_smile:

46

I agree entirely. However, Taiwan is not a country. So what is the argument?

More tea?[/quote]

Let’s seen now, Don’t you need a visa to visit anoter country. Taiwan requires visa’s for Mainland Chinese, and Mainland China requires Vias for Taiwanese… hmmm so that suggests.

Let’s see now, Taiwan has it’s own government, military, currency, diplomatic relations, and passports. So for you to say Taiwan is not a country is crap. I even have an offical legal opinion from the Australian Govenment that Taiwan is a country.

Renouncing Australian Citizenship can only be done to aquire citizenship of another country.

Part of the ACT realting to this below:

It should be noted that the Acts Interpretation Act defines the meaning of

47

I would assume that about 99% are SE Asian (or mainland) brides - and that the laws are designed to address them.

I’m afraid that you, Satellite TV, et al are statistically insignificant :slight_smile:[/quote]

Mainland brides are limited. Statistics can be viewed from many sides, and stats lie.

At least I am a statistic, unlike you foriegners.

48

[quote=“Satellite TV”]
At least I am a statistic, unlike you foriegners.[/quote]

With all due respect to your citizenship, I am quite content to remain a foreigner in Taiwan.

49

[quote=“smerf”][quote=“Satellite TV”]
At least I am a statistic, unlike you foriegners.[/quote]

With all due respect to your citizenship, I am quite content to remain a foreigner in Taiwan.[/quote]

Not when it comes to bank loans, buying land and other properties, running a local business, education, getting phone accounts and the normal things in life which ease your existance here. If I need a visa card I can just apply from those stores like Woking House or Carrafour… they hand out credit cards willy nilly… oops except to foreigners.

50

I’ve had a bank loan (Standard Chartered) in my name, I’ve paid for a new vehicle in my name in installments through a bank (Macoto), I’ve got a chequebook (ICBC), one platinum card and three gold cards in my name (Visa, MasterCard and Amex), my cell phone is in my name (Taiwan DageDa), my adsl and home phone (seednet and Zhonghua Dianxin) is in my name. I don’t have a guarantor for any of them. In fact, I am the guarantor for my Taiwanese wife’s Amex card. :laughing: And my business is in my name too… I’m not an R.O.C. citizen.

All of these things weren’t given out easily, and I’ve spent hours and hours in bank offices, going through endless lines of managers, but I’ve always gotten what I’ve wanted. Life now is pretty convenient.

51

And at the same time, Maoman retains a passport from Canada, an internationally recognized sovereign country.

52

[quote]I’ve had a bank loan (Standard Chartered) in my name, I’ve paid for a new vehicle in my name in installments through a bank (Macoto), I’ve got a chequebook (ICBC), one platinum card and three gold cards in my name (Visa, MasterCard and Amex), my cell phone is in my name (Taiwan DageDa), my adsl and home phone (seednet and Zhonghua Dianxin) is in my name. I don’t have a guarantor for any of them. In fact, I am the guarantor for my Taiwanese wife’s Amex card. Lol.gif And my business is in my name too… I’m not an R.O.C. citizen.

All of these things weren’t given out easily, and I’ve spent hours and hours in bank offices, going through endless lines of managers, but I’ve always gotten what I’ve wanted. Life now is pretty convenient.[/quote]
I assume from this post that the banking laws of the ROC do not prohibit banks or financial institutions from extending credit to foreigners?
If that is the case then it is the individual institutions discretion as to deny an individual credit for reasons based on race or nationality.
Moaman if I may be so bold an un PC .
How would you describe your ethincicity?
I ask because it may help others and myself better understand if the decisions of financial institutions to deny credit to foreigners is one based entirely on nationality or if perceived race or other factors play a part in their decision.

53

And at the same time, Maoman retains a passport from Canada, an internationally recognized sovereign country.[/quote]

The issue of sovereignty is irrelevant to those of us who live here long term.

Well Hartzell… your efforts as an activist are well respected. The rest of us try to get along with our lives the best we can within the framework that the current rules allow. I’m sure that we don’t want to see any more foreign spouses have their ARC’s revoked and get deported over some untested claims.

I decided to sidestep all the complications of being a foreigner by becoming an ROC citizen. There was no PARC or Marriage visa with work entitlements previously when I needed to find a way to stay here as a single father. I also did not want to have to work ( yes, I did though a a few years 1999 - 2001 ) for somebody else. I’ve run my own businesses here since the first day I arrived in 1988.

We may as well say that Taiwan passports are a good as PRC passports then… I suppose my Australian passport does me no good then.

Which reminds me, Australians, British, Canadians, and NZ citizens who renounce their citizenship may also resume it :wink: , unlike being born in the USA :help:.

The fact is that most people are not in Maomans position. I’ve not said it’s impossible to get loans, credit cards here as a foreigner. Damn, some merchants won’t even accept foreign credit cards, such as Visa and Amex.

I got my ADLS and Phone lines when I had my ARC as well. But it seems that recently some people are having more problems. Banking also seems to be a problem for new arrivals as well.

Also, the PARC, Marriage and other ARC’s can be cancelled. :raspberry: They offer no permament residency.

Citizenship does. :smiley:

Even Gov Attache with his PARC see the benefits of becoming an ROC national. There are some things that are just not possible even with a PARC or an ARC. :astonished:

Let’s face it, foreigners are discriminated against :fume: here when it comes to accessing necessary services. When I was in the USA as a visitor I was able to get a drivers licence, open bank accounts, obtain a credit card, and live pretty conveniently, and all that without being a resident. Damn, I could have even registered a company should I have desired to as well.

Gove Attache & Cooling Tower are not married and realized that the PARC did not give them the benefits that ROC nationality does. As an ROC citizen I can leave for a few years and return. You can’t do that with a PARC, they get cancelled if you leave for more than 6 months. :loco:

The whole point of this thread in anycase is to inform people that it is possible to become an ROC citizen here. Sure, you may have to renounce your own nationality first, and perhaps fullfill military service requirements. Surely not an easy decision for most people.

54

None of my business, but… I have met Maoman several times.

He is not of Asian or Chinese descent, as far as I can see. He would appear to be of caucasian descent.

In other words, he’s white.

55

[quote=“Mr He”][quote=“Eric W. Lier”]
.
Maoman if I may be so bold and un PC.
How would you describe your ethincicity?
[/quote]

None of my business, but… I have met Maoman several times.

He is not of Asian or Chinese descent, as far as I can see. He would appear to be of caucasian descent.

In other words, he’s white.[/quote] lol

Nice one Mr He

I think I’m white too, just depends on how much time I spend under the sun.

56

What other factors do banks take into account when deciding whether or not to extend credit to non ROC nationals?
The industry standard of good credit history and collateral don’t seem to be a major factor. Why is it that some people get credit and others don’t when the only clear difference between these people is their names and faces.

57

[quote=“Eric W. Lier”]What other factors do banks take into account when deciding whether or not to extend credit to non ROC nationals?
The industry standard of good credit history and collateral don’t seem to be a major factor. Why is it that some people get credit and others don’t when the only clear difference between these people is their names and faces.[/quote]
So you have the ‘industry standard of a good credit history’ established here in Taiwan with Taiwanese businesses and banks and it’s been reported to a credit bureau??? Damn, I can’t think of any reason why you should be able to get a credit card here.
Why don’t you ask Hartzell to do a test case for you? I mean sue the bastards for all they are worth for discrimination. I haven’t seen his face on television recently or read about any current activist projects he is working on in the newspaper so maybe he will have time to push this through to the supreme court or he could just go back and finish what he started with this driver’s license thing and get it sorted out so people wouldn’t have to file an adminstrative appeal (you know a job worth doing is worth doing right :wink: ).

58

[quote=“Eric W. Lier”]What other factors do banks take into account when deciding whether or not to extend credit to non ROC nationals?
The industry standard of good credit history and collateral don’t seem to be a major factor. Why is it that some people get credit and others don’t when the only clear difference between these people is their names and faces.[/quote]

The bottom line is how far you can get up the food chain in the bank to put pressure on the little bureaucrats at the bottom. You know the way it is. For example, most times in the foreign affairs police office I meet helpful friendly people who do my stuff for me. However, I’m always thinking “don’t let me get the one that hates foreigners” - and there’s always one. No matter what you do, your documents won’t be right, and there’s no point arguing.

Same with the banks. Remember everything here is a bureacracy, and that means finding ways to prevent people from doing what they want, NOT helping them to achieve things. The only way we’re really going to see any progress is to form a loose association and go to the various ministries and ask what they have against us, but obviously everyone’s too lazy for that, myself included.

59

How would you define a “loose association”?