I went to a dinner Friday night with a friend who is a participant in a Translation and Interpretation class at NTU. There were about fifteen students in attendance, along with the professor and three guests. I was the only foreigner.
When I entered the room, the professor immediately asked me my name, in Mandarin, and then proceded to make fun of my pronunciation. No big deal, I thought. Doesn’t happen very often, but I suppose I could have mispronounced my own name. Throughout the night, she continually differentiated between foreigner behavior and Taiwanese behavior, sometimes quite inaccurately and often generalizing (We all know that “foreigner” is not specific enough to be useful). For example, over the course of a three hour period, I ordered two glasses of German draft beer, one martini, and then a sambuca for dessert. She commented to the group, in my presence: “See, foreigners really like to drink a lot.” When I left the room to use the restroom, she said to my friend “You didn’t tell us you were bringing a foreigner!” My friend replied: “Does it matter?” My friend told me that her professor likes to point out differences between foreigners and Taiwanese people in class, with an obvious bias against foreigners. This woman is one of the top interpreting professionals in Taiwan, someone who comes into contact with visiting foreign dignitaries on a regular basis.
Have any of you run into very smart people who seem to have a distaste for most things (and people) non-Taiwanese? I had an interesting experience, to say the least. I expect this sort of shit from time to time, but not from an NTU professor. I suppose I was a threat to her, because she held the dinner in a European food establishment so that she could teach her students about “foreigner” culture, and I represent someone who might know more about said culture than she does.
Evidently she’s not gone to dinner with her fellow countrymen who down quarts of kaoliang like water, play drinking games as if they’re ten years old. Or drink whisbee on the job. She sounds like a racist. I avoid like the plague being the only waiguoren at dinners.
You always get the full treatment in these situations. Everything you eat or don’t eat is commented upon. Even when you speak and understand Chinese, they ask your companion personal questions about you as if you’re not there. I hate it and gave up the humiliation years ago, but sadly get roped in now and again by my bf.
A higher education does NOT make one any more intelligent about the world or endow them with human compassion.
I like to poke right back in those situations. This is one of my preferred lines. “You know, many foreigners think Taiwanese are uncouth and have only one foot recently extricated from pig shit. I don’t, of course, but what do you think?”
Get them straight onto the back foot, but watch it isn’t the one still caked in shit or they’ll be flying at you with Whisbih bottle held high.
That woman totally reminds me the way some local gay men act, particularly in their 20s, and specifically the ones who are crazy about everything Western but do not have the dough or connections to travel or move overseas. They are incredibly frustrated, thus scrutinizing every single foreigner.
She’s probably jealous, frustrated, and insecure herself. She wanted to be the authority on foreign everything and you walked in unannounced and undermined everything. Were you with a lady date? Well that’ll just stir the pot even more.
I agree with Alien–A higher education does NOT make one any more intelligent about the world or endow them with human compassion.
ticket
That is not the problem. A friend of mine who does marketing research here has turned up data showing that the more people here are exposed to foreigners, the less they like them. The more English education they have, the less they like things foreign. Data for Japan, he also reports, shows similar things.
Those of you given to speculate may speculate on the reasons. But familiarity, as they say…
Yes, of course, I was with a lady date. Wouldn’t be Tomas if I wasn’t, eh ? My date is actually the class leader, and is working with this woman on a book project. Yikes.
I didn’t try to undermine anything, but I do have a strong personality. I think she likes to be the authority in the room, and I’m a Westerner. I suppose that is what threatened her. That, and I don’t mind speaking up from time to time.
Actually, when she pulled out the drinking comment, I responded, in an innocent tone: “Interesting. I had almost no capacity for alchohol before coming to Taiwan, but after doing business here for a few months, I found myself able to consume large quantities of alchohol. I’ve learned to drink from Taiwanese people.” She had no comeback, and was obviously pissed off .
I also asked her a few time times, “Now, how long did you live in Europe?” “You know so much about Western culture, you must have lived overseas for years, no?” Her response was the same: “Er, um, I’ve travelled quite a bit.” “Uh, I’ve been to Europe dozens of times.” She’s never lived overseas, yet she is an expert.
Sort of like some foreigners in Taiwan who’ve been here for a whopping six months yet consider themselves experts on local culture.
This “professor” wouldn’t have been Wang Li-sha (Lisa Wang), would it?
She used to give her interpreting “classes” at NTU at night, and liked to tool around Taipei with an entourage of students. I once had a memorable run-in with her at NTU when I was a real professor there. I have always been disappointed that to this day, I cannot remember precisely what she said to me when I addressed her – after waiting for ages for the room to clear out enough so I could talk to her about shared use of the facilities – but I do remember that after hearing her response to my “Excuse me, Teacher” in Chinese, I just stood there with my jaw gaping as it was the rudest response I’d ever encountered in Taiwan (and that’s goin’ some).
Just remember that a real interpreting class is NEVER going to have 15 students, you can’t teach them anything in those numbers, so if the teacher cares, the frustration level will be monumental, and if the teacher doesn’t care – well, that says something right there, doesn’t it?
[quote=“Vorkosigan”] A friend of mine who does marketing research here has turned up data showing that the more people here are exposed to foreigners, the less they like them. The more English education they have, the less they like things foreign. Data for Japan, he also reports, shows similar things.
Those of you given to speculate may speculate on the reasons. But familiarity, as they say…[/quote]
That person wouldn’t happen to be doing marketing research for the DPP, would he? That research might actually compliment my observations. Perhaps more exposure just increases jealousy and frustration. It’s gotta hurt when you are a local professor and you see a zonked-out 21-year-old foreign English teacher with no training that makes more money than you. That could set up a person to be very bitter. Other “foreign exposure” tends to be glamorous brands and Hollywood entertainment. But then on the other hand, that lady that Tomas and Ironlady had run-ins with just might have been born an incompetent bitch.
When you say foreignors do you mean Westerners from developed nations or everyone, including starving, helpless Ethiopians that only a sick person would actually “hate”? How would your friend explain the popularity and proliferation of foreign brands like Louis Vuitton?
Tomas, I’m glad to hear that you gave as good as you got. I can see this thread going for a while. I’d like to ask a slightly more general question. Many Taiwanese or Chinese think that they are omnicompetent about all things foreign. They may assume that since they can speak English, they must know more about “foreigners” than any foreigner could understand about China/Taiwan. On the other hand, they like to believe that Chinese culture is too complex for any foreigner to understand or interpret. They reserve the right to judge us, but as soon as we try to have any sort of intelligent discussion with them about Chinese history, culture, etc., we have to be ready to hear the long lecture about how we foreigners just have no chance of understanding China. It seems any time I discuss anything relating to history, I get a long, pedantic, and irrelevant lecture that ends with a sigh and the standard line:
I wonder to what extent the foreigners feel the same way…?
An anecdote: In one class I signed up for (in which the only other foreigner was a Korean, and hence not as obvious), the professor started lecturing, then did a double-take–“Huh?”–when he saw me. If he had seen a monkey, I think his reaction would have been about the same! So he interrupts his lecture to find out where I’m from, etc. Which I guess was his way of making sure I could follow along…but the rest of the course, he would always ask for feedback from me more than the others. It was a little strange. I guess he figured I had a thicker skin.
In other courses, this didn’t happen, though it felt funny to listen to them say “women chunguoren” (“we Chinese…”) all the time. And many would come over and talk to me privately and welcome me.
For fairness’ sake, I suppose I should talk about my quirky American professors who weren’t Chinese, but then I’d need a book. Okay, just one! My accounting professor was a woman who wore polyester suits every day, along with a different Star Trek button for every day of the year.
[quote=“Jive Turkey”]It seems any time I discuss anything relating to history, I get a long, pedantic, and irrelevant lecture that ends with a sigh and the standard line:
And as far as Chinese teacher reactions to foreigners, I’m getting sick and tired of being asked at the first meeting of every class: “Do you speak Chinese? Can you read Chinese?” I wouldn’t mind if I were in some other department, but being in the 2nd year of an MA course in Conference Interpreting with Chinese as one of my working languages, you would think they might figure it out.
But then again I have an American friend who is a damn good legal translator, working for one of the big law firms for some years now. During break one day, one of the associates approached him and saw that he was reading a Chinese newspaper. “Oh! Can you read a Chinese newspaper?” (“No, I can only puzzle out the meanings of complicated bits of the civil code, but the newspaper is beyond me.” Duhh!!)
Many Academics or people who have a deep understanding of one area
often have a very superficial understanding of other areas. How this manifests itself depends on the personality of the individual. In some cases they come accross as endearing or none worldly wise in other cases they think that their deep understanding of one niche somehow qualifies them to pontificate on subjects where they are in reality totally ignorant.
I dont see this being more common here in Taiwan than any other country I have lived in . If anything I would say less so here. I sense a genuine interest in many people here about things foreign or about my home country.
On the contrary people in my home country have little/ no interest in things Taiwanese:
Quotes from those that have not been here:
" Thailand has good food doesnt it"
" They make a lot of plastic toys there dont they ?"
" Is it near Tibet ?"
Quotes from those that have been here.
“Taiwan is a beautiful Island apart from anything that the Taiwanese have touched” That from a Academic,PHD, Author.
" Taiwan.People have strange addresses there. No 1 Lane 2 Rd 3 etc."
Hence ,this kind of attitude is universal.
A friend of mine spent 2 years on a round the world trip to “broaden her mind” . When she returned I asked her if there were any surprises. SHe said that she expected her travels to increase her appreciation for other cultures but in fact they only increased her appreciation of her own culture.
We all (well most of us) think our own culture is superior(& by definition foriegn cultures to be inferior) despite it flaws because its part of what we are. Sadly millions of people have died as a result of the more exteme versions of this aspect of the human character & will continue to do so in the future.
I’d have to agree with you there IL. I’ve worked for a large pseudo-governmental organization for 4 years now, which requires me to translate at least half of everything I do, including the news. One day a co-worker saw me taking a long time to choose a drink out of the drink case, and said to me (quite seriously) “I bet you’re having a tough time telling what’s in the cans, right?” Fortunately my other co-workers stepped in and berated him when they saw me begin to sputter. “His Chinese is probably better than yours. And if it isn’t, I’m sure he can still understand the pictures on the cans.”
I find that the locals will state obvious observations as conversation starters. Maybe that person just wants to talk and is not realizing they are offending someone.
This thread is like many other complaining about Taiwan.
How much time do we spend complaining about Taiwan and its people.
Let’s bite the hand that feeds us!
I’ve sat through many conversations where the foreigners have said rude comments about Taiwan and it’s people in front of the Taiwanese. I have done it myself.
It has nothing to do with education. It’s a matter of empathizing.
I’m sure someone like Tomas just being there makes that woman very uncomfortable and like Flicka said she might be frustrated like a 20 year old boy who can’t afford to leave this little island.
It does seem to me, odd though it may be, that the more “experience” Taiwanese have with foreigners, the worse they are when it comes to dealing with foreigners. Of course, it may be that those Taiwanese are just asshats who claim to have experience, but in general I feel more comfortable about Taiwanese who have never been around foreigners and speak no English or any other non-Chinese language than I would around Taiwanese who have travelled extensively, especially intellectual types.
If you are dealing with pretentious intellectuals, name drop as much as possible (eg. people you know, schools you went to, countries you have visited) and be very aggressive in your debating. Make them lose face in front of their audience. This has never happened to me in Taiwan. All intellectuals I have been most gracious. However, in Singapore and the PRC, it was not always so. I like the quote from former American Sec of State Warren Christopher who said to Lee Kuan Yew:
“Cultural relativism is the last refuge of repression.”
? My date is actually the class leader, and is working with this woman on a book project. Yikes.
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That research might actually compliment my observations. Perhaps more exposure just increases jealousy and frustration. It’s gotta hurt when you are a local professor and you see a zonked-out 21-year-old foreign English teacher with no training that makes more money than you. That could set up a person to be very bitter. Other “foreign exposure” tends to be glamorous brands and Hollywood entertainment. But then on the other hand, that lady that Tomas and Ironlady had run-ins with just might have been born an incompetent bitch.
