[quote=“divea”]Sandman, visitors and flowers are not the same. The OP is even whining about flowers.
I wanted to add, one can make a bad situation worse by negative attitude. If he can’t change it, accept it.
Again whether they are close friends or not, they took time and money out of their lives to come visit…that is something.[/quote]
Some gifts are toxic. Every time my wife and I visit her grandmother (at least six hours away in the mountains down south), she tries to load us down with a couple bags of fruit. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. I don’t want or need to pack 15 kilos of fruit all the way home. Head to mom’s place, and it’ll be a couple BOXES of food… Half of which will be thrown out once it rots, then I catch hell for the waste.
A sincere gift ought to satify the wants and needs of the receiver, not the social codes of the giver.
This is really very simple. His wife does not want visitors or flowers. The reason for this is her business alone. The OP is asking for advice on how to fulfill his wife’s wishes without offending her friends.
Gifts of flowers and fruit! What is the world coming to?!
You can count on my full and pragmatic support, once i am settled in Taiwan: i can handle any amount of free fruit from doting mothers and grandmothers!
A smart man ought to make good use of whatever comes his way…
It seems to me that the flowers and fruit are a side issue and this is what the OP was mainly asking about:[quote=“Flakman”]We were just very, very lucky we did not have a constant line of visitors at the hospital. If they had visited her in hospital I would have had a big fight with them.
…
For other situations, I just let it happen but for more serious situations I need a tactic to manage such cases. If she was ever in a more serious health situation there could be major trouble between her friends (and family) and me. She spent hours fighting off all the suggestions from her mother about her hospital trip…
Are there any tactics/strategies we are not thinking of?[/quote]
[quote=“Jaboney”][quote=“divea”]Sandman, visitors and flowers are not the same. The OP is even whining about flowers.
I wanted to add, one can make a bad situation worse by negative attitude. If he can’t change it, accept it.
Again whether they are close friends or not, they took time and money out of their lives to come visit…that is something.[/quote]
Some gifts are toxic. Every time my wife and I visit her grandmother (at least six hours away in the mountains down south), she tries to load us down with a couple bags of fruit. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. I don’t want or need to pack 15 kilos of fruit all the way home. Head to mom’s place, and it’ll be a couple BOXES of food… Half of which will be thrown out once it rots, then I catch hell for the waste.
A sincere gift ought to satify the wants and needs of the receiver, not the social codes of the giver.[/quote]
I am sorry you have such an insensitive mom in law and grand ma in law. They give you insincere and toxic gifts of food and fruit.
My reply was more aimed at Jaboney than at Flakman. But the OP had mentioned a problem with flowers, too…
[quote=“Flakman”]We were just very, very lucky we did not have a constant line of visitors at the hospital. If they had visited her in hospital I would have had a big fight with them.
…
For other situations, I just let it happen but for more serious situations I need a tactic to manage such cases. If she was ever in a more serious health situation there could be major trouble between her friends (and family) and me.[/quote]
Enigma answered this pretty well, i thought. But if visits are, indeed, unendurable due to exhaustion or other medical problems, then the hospital staff should be enlisted to set and enforce a limit on the visiting time. If the spouse is there to greet visitors, then at times a firm but polite explanation of the patient’s need for rest and solitude, coupled with expressions of gratitude for the gifts and the promise to pass them on to the intended recipient at the next opportune moment, would seem to me the appropriate approach. And if flowers, fruits, or whatever pile up in the room, they can be shared with people who don’t have any - other patients, staff, friends and neighbours at or near one’s home, strangers on the street.
The key to managing situations like those the OP and Jaboney described would seem to me to focus on the resources at hand (human kindness and social obligations, as well as the flowers and fruits expressing those) rather than the problems (loss of privacy, etc.) and to deal with those resources in a manner that creates good-will in one’s environment and reduces the stress of the situation…
I think most visitors are smart enough to realize if its a matter of life or death to stay away for a bit. They are not going to crowd into the emergency ward while someone is trying to re-start a heart.
I spent a week in a major Taipei hospital tending to my mom and was outside the emergency room quite a bit. I didnt see any visitors in there. Only family.
Thanks for the comments. The little woman and I discussed this last night. She made same comments as Chris and Tommy525…this is a Taiwan custom that is very ingrained. The only way to stop people is to strongly insist to such a point where we may appear mean and unnappreciative which amounts to being downright unfriendly…and my wife is not willing to do this…and she would not want me to do this either (especially since we work in same company so offended people see both of us all the time). At same time, I told her that for a more serious case, I will not hesitate to step in if more major problems arise.
For this case, I think I am also just tired. How to sleep in the hospital? People visiting other patient in room are speaking in low volumes but still there till midnight…their light never is turned off so room very bright…can hear their cell phone messages arriving at all hours…temperature checks at 12:30am and 5:30am…the room door is noisy…doctors and nurses in and out of the room many times per day/night. Even for this minor case we were both burned out. I think I got more sleep in the TV lounge than in her room.
As for not appreciating the flowers…that is just us. For birthdays, our anniversary, etc, we have begged people to not give flowers…if really want to spend money just donate to charity. That never works. The flowers sat on the floor of the room (no table space) and I took the bus and lugged those heavy potted flowers one-by-one back to our house. The wife thought would be rude to give them away…I think she feared friends would visit her at home and not see flowers.
I am not sure how wife will do in future. We have similiar case as Jaboney. The wife has been trying to “train” her family members (especially mother) to be more sensible about gifts. Like mother asking brother to carry back box of fruit for us…fruit carried by car 4 hours to Banqiao…then transferred to sister in Taipei…who then transferrs to us in Neihu…then we take to work to distribute as we simply cannot eat so much. It got so bad that I had to make the rule that we cannot receive so much fruit/vegetables that most gets rotten before we can eat. The result? Same amount given to us…I am assigned to cart extra (usually 80%) to work to distribute.
Like Jaboney I think gift should fit need of receiver not some social need of giver. I like to ask someone what they might like…some new music perhaps? and respect their wishes. The wife and I will keep trying to convey the message of thanking others for their efforts…but at same time, building up their respect for our decisions. I think we have the advantage of me as a foreigner as the wife can just blame me. That seems to work.
By the way, her operation was on her butt. That is a fun topic for all of those very inquisitive friends.
I still maintain that if a person, for whatever reason, decides he or she doesn’t want visitors or flowers or gifts during a hospital stay then that person has EVERY DAMN RIGHT to say so and EVERY DAMN RIGHT to expect that friends will respect the request.
Those that refuse to do so can hardly be considered friends, IMO – friends usually at least TRY to respect one anothers’ wishes, don’t they? Or at least that’s how me and my friends try to treat one another.
I simply cannot imagine being such a boor as to disrespect a friend’s wishes by muscling into her hospital room when I KNOW she doesn’t want me to be there!
Just because social mores say that the “correct” thing to do is to say: “Fuck you! Who cares what you think or want? Don’t be so disharmonious! You’re in the hospital so you shall be visited whether you like it or not!”
Tommy, shut the fuck up (I HAVE to say that, you know? Merry Christmas and best wishes for the coming year and all, but still, shut the fuck up). But you’re missing the point. As others have pointed out, some people love having visitors and flowers, etc.
Others don’t. And if you have a friend going into hospital and they tell you beforehand that they don’t want such stuff, and refuse to even tell you which hospital they’re going to, surely the right thing to do, if you’re a friend, is to respect their wishes?
Am I really so far off-base on this? I don’t think so.
Make no mistake: I had a dear dear friend in hospital not long ago who had just dropped a sprog and to my ETERNAL shame, I neglected to visit her in hospital to share the happy event. There was always something came up, plus, the hospital was in like fucking Timbuktu or someplace – north of Heping East Road, at any rate – but that was an unforgivable faux pas on my part. Fortunately, the friends in question are MUCH nicer than I am, and have (I hope) forgiven me.
But if she’d said “no visitors, please, no flowers,” then FIE on anyone who disregarded the request and just went there willy-nilly. Its just not on.
I understand and will agree on a personal basis. I promise I will never visit you or your family in the hospital (unless specifically invited) and I will bring exactly ZERO GIFTS or flowers or that stupid Chicken Essence. One’s wishes should be respected. However, one must realize that one is not living in ones former country of residence but instead on Taiwan where a different set of social rules are in effect. To ask a Taiwanese friend/associate/what have you to NOT come to the hospital (for most occasions other then your imminent demise) is considered a MAJOR INSULT. And can end a friendship. Those are the social rules in Taiwan and you can NOT avoid them without consequence in some form.
Even those who are rich and famous and powerful figures HAVE to visit those in the hospital they consider as Important people. To not do so is considered a MAJOR INSULT by many.
That is MY point.
edit: And to add , a lot of Taiwanese are not unaware of when it is NOT appropriate to visit. Someone close to me working for a major company in Taiwan recently had a coworker who is seriously ill from cancer. They all signed a card and only one person brought it to her. But yesterday a whole bunch of them went to Wanfang hospital to visit another co-worker who just gave birth a few days prior.
Birth? Yes a visit is appropriate in a timely fashion. Imminent death? Perhaps not appropriate unless its your own personal friend. Otherwise, leave the family alone and bring white envelop to the eventual funeral.
Noble indeed. Except that the lady in question is living in her homeland. Which, I imagine, is why she felt the need to keep her whereabouts clandestine. Had she been, say, a Brit living in Britland, the question would not arise. No visitors? No problem. I’ll go and see her when she feels up to it.
And what is it with that “essense of chicken” stuff? The little woman was able to turn back 3 cases of that stuff (not the cases of fruit) as the doctor specifically said to not drink anything like that. Man, that company must sell a million bottles a day of that stuff…OR…is everyone simply passing around the same case from friend to friend until it finally expires. Sort of like whoever gets the essense of chicken near expiration date cannot use it as a gift for someone else…
Indeed, telling people not to visit would be seen as merely a formality, a statement of courtesy (“Don’t inconvenience yourself on my account!”) which will be summarily ignored.
You’ve surely witnessed the following dance in gift giving:
A: “I brought this specially for you.”
B: “Oh, I can’t take such an expensive gift! I’m not worthy!” (Inner thoughts: “Yes! That’s exactly what I want, and there’s no way I’d refuse it!”)
A: “But I insist!”
B: “Oh, really, you shouldn’t have. I can’t take it.” (Inner thoughts: “Should I do one more courtesy refusal?”)
A: “Take it. It’s yours. Really.”
B: “Oh, all right. If you insist. Thank you. Zhen buhaoyisi!” (Inner thoughts: “It’s mine! All mine!”)
It’s related to the same concept of courtesy: don’t appear as if you’re putting demands on others; don’t be selfish enough not to expend time/resources/energy/money for those in your social circle (relatives, friends, colleagues, classmates, teachers).
Man is that stuff rank. OMG> Its like that American Fruit CAke? Its a gift that keeps on being given !! It also lasts forever apparently. Only a nuclear bomb can destroy it.
But silly me, I actually find that the fruit cake is not THAT bad. But BRAND’S essence of chicken is the witches brew !!
I think its England’s secret stab in the eye to Chinese for stopping the opium shipments to Britain way back when.
HOwever, I will say that if your Taiwanese kittykat is feeling a bit unwell with abit of a tummy upset a few syringes worth of Brands Chicken essence will help settle his tummy. Worked on my cats and they didnt refuse it either.
(cept my baby).