Iraq: China's greatest victory

Jim Mann, author and scholar, weighs in with a great commentary in WaPo today on how our defeat in Iraq has become China’s greatest victory.

Mann’s Piece

[ul]The Iraq war isn’t over, but one thing’s already clear: China won.

As the United States has been bleeding popularity and influence around the world, China has been gaining both. That’s largely because it has been coming into its own as the first full-blown alternative since the end of the Cold War to Washington’s model of free markets and democracy. As the U.S. model has become tarnished, China’s has gained new luster.[/ul]

It is hard to think of another example in history where a great nation has been so completely betrayed by its leadership. There is practically no part of America and its economy, politics, international standing, and ideals, that our President has not debased and besmirched.

Vorkosigan

[quote]A Shining Model of Wealth Without Liberty
By James Mann

The Iraq war isn’t over, but one thing’s already clear: China won.

As the United States has been bleeding popularity and influence around the world, China has been gaining both. That’s largely because it has been coming into its own as the first full-blown alternative since the end of the Cold War to Washington’s model of free markets and democracy. As the U.S. model has become tarnished, China’s has gained new luster.

For authoritarian leaders around the world seeking to maintain their grip on power, China increasingly serves as a blueprint. We’re used to thinking of China as an economic miracle, but it’s also becoming a political model. Beijing has shown dictators that they don’t have to choose between power and profit; they can have both. Today’s China demonstrates that a regime can suppress organized opposition and need not establish its legitimacy through elections. It shows that a ruling party can maintain considerable control over information and the Internet without slowing economic growth. And it indicates that a nation’s elite can be bought off with comfortable apartments, the chance to make money, and significant advances in personal, non-political freedoms (clothes, entertainment, sex, travel abroad).

This all adds up to a startling new challenge to the future of liberal democracy. And the result is ominous for the cause of freedom around the world. China’s single-party state offers continuing hope not only to such largely isolated dictatorships as Burma, Zimbabwe, Syria and North Korea but also to some key U.S. friends who themselves resist calls for democracy (say, Egypt or Pakistan) and to our neighbors in Cuba and Venezuela.

The China model has emerged from the confluence of two independent developments over the past decade. Each stands on its own, yet the interaction between the two has been especially toxic for democratic values.

First has been the failure of U.S. foreign policy, symbolized above all by the war in Iraq. Over the past decade, U.S. foreign policy has been dominated by a school of thought that emphasizes military power and has tied the spread of democracy to the use of force. Not only has this failed, it has also undermined support for democracy. U.S. attempts to export free markets and political liberty by force have been unable to bring even security, much less prosperity, to Iraq. And they’ve eroded our appeal and clout worldwide.

The second key development has been the staying power and economic success of the Chinese Communist Party. In the years immediately after the crackdown on pro-democracy protesters around Tiananmen Square on June 4, 1989, Western pundits predicted that the Chinese government had one foot on a banana peel. Any day now, they said, it would fall or be forced to embrace far-reaching political reform to survive. Instead, China’s economy expanded by a factor of nine, and the Communist Party remains firmly in control.

Westerners next seized on the Internet as the inevitable liberator of the Chinese. “Information will knock down the bamboo curtain!” went the refrain. Instead, Chinese cops in the 500 cities that have established Internet police bureaus are using the Web – tapping into people’s e-mail accounts and monitoring individuals using politically sensitive Web sites – as a handy tool to stamp out dissent.

China’s stability has belied the hopes and forecasts of Western leaders that growing prosperity would significantly alter the country’s one-party political system. Over the past decade, presidents, prime ministers and others have frequently offered a soothing scenario about how China will inexorably move toward freedom and democracy. In 1997, President Bill Clinton said China was on “the wrong side of history.” Political change would come “just as, inevitably, the Berlin Wall fell,” he predicted. President Bush has repeated many of these same themes: “Trade freely with China, and time is on our side,” he once said. British Prime Minister Tony Blair said two years ago that he thought there was “an unstoppable momentum” toward democracy in China. Not quite.

The optimists assume that once a country becomes more affluent, its emerging middle class will press for democratic change. But in China, the middle class (itself still tiny as a proportion of the overall population) supports or at least goes along with the existing political order; after all, that order made it middle class in the first place. The ruling party allows urban elites the freedom to wear and buy what they want, to see the world, to have affairs, to invest and to profit mightily; in return, the elites don’t challenge the Communist Party’s hold on power. Moreover, China’s new business community is hardly independent of the party; in effect, it is the party, linked to China’s power structure through financial connections or family ties.

In economic terms, China doesn’t fit into the standard model of a free-market system, either. American magazines and television programs have for years joyously proclaimed that China has “gone capitalist” – a supposed sign (along with the proliferation of McDonald’s, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Starbucks) that the Chinese are becoming like us. In fact, the fast-growing economic system that China is developing is quite different from the American model – a fact not lost on other countries. Yes, China has private firms and stock markets. But only a small portion of the stock of any given company is traded on the stock market; the majority is held by state-owned enterprises. Communist Party officials frequently retain a majority of the seats on boards of directors and keep veto power over personnel decisions. And when it comes to foreign businesses, the Chinese system has been so good at attracting outside investment and fueling economic growth that the German magazine Der Spiegel recently asked, “Does Communism Work After All?”

Of course, the Chinese model doesn’t really work for, say, Burma; China is unique because of its sheer size and the allure of its massive markets, which no other country can match. Still, repressive regimes elsewhere are increasingly looking to Beijing. And often the sympathy flows both ways: China has, in recent years, helped to prop up Zimbabwe, Sudan, Uzbekistan, Cuba and North Korea.

So what can U.S. leaders do to turn things around? The most important change is a conceptual one. We need to get beyond the arid framework of seeing every policy dispute involving China as a choice between “engagement” and “isolation.” Those loaded words set up a false selection and have little meaning anymore, if they ever did. With the third-biggest trading economy in the world, China is already engaged.

We also need to get beyond the notion that our trade, investment and interaction with China are going to transform its political system. Any serious policy must be based on China as it is, not on our mistaken assumption that prosperity and liberty inevitably go hand in hand. Trade and investment should be evaluated for their economic costs and benefits to the United States, not for their political impact on China.

Take, for example, the economic meetings coming up this week between Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Chinese Vice Premier Wu Yi. China has maintained its currency, the yuan, at a value so cheap that the U.S. trade deficit with China has soared to more than $200 billion a year. The result has been to boost Chinese exports and depress U.S. employment and production. But some American officials are concerned that pressing China too much on this issue might spoil U.S.-China ties. I don’t think so.

Above all, we should approach China through the lens of our national interest. That includes not just security and prosperity but our interest in a world with open political systems and the freedom to dissent. If we don’t take China’s new model as seriously as the rest of the world does, we could find that we’re the ones on the wrong side of history.[/quote]

The devastation implemented by the human filth known as the Bush regime is astonishing. Trillions of dollars wasted, America’s respect and relations squandered, thousands of Americans killed (they don’t even count Iraqi dead), families torn apart, people maimed and crippled, the list goes on. All for another loser of a war that announces to the world the total incompetence of the US military.

I do take some satisfaction in watching them self destruct and turn upon each other, and in how the house of representatives has them hamstrung. These people are assholes on a historic and galactic scale.

Strange article…but it appears he’s paid by the word…and well “controversy” does sell.

Just more mental wacka wacka for the Bush-basher-bots.

LOL. It’s amazing, that well known liberal bias of reality.

Did the Left just create the New Bad Guy?
End a hot war, start a cold one.

What do you guys have to say about the stock market? The DOW is over 13,000. Millions of Americans invest in IRAs. Maybe the reason they aren’t screaming for Bush’s head (as loudly as some would like them too anyway) is that their bottom line looks purty good.

[quote=“jdsmith”]Did the Left just create the New Bad Guy?
End a hot war, start a cold one.

What do you guys have to say about the stock market? The DOW is over 13,000. Millions of Americans invest in IRAs. Maybe the reason they aren’t screaming for Bush’s head (as loudly as some would like them too anyway) is that their bottom line looks purty good.[/quote]

How’s George’s bottom line?
angus-reid.com/polls/
A Third of Americans Approve of President Bush: Angus Reid Global Monitor

Mann writes: Above all, we should approach China through the lens of our national interest. That includes not just security and prosperity but our interest in a world with open political systems and the freedom to dissent. If we don’t take China’s new model as seriously as the rest of the world does, we could find that we’re the ones on the wrong side of history.

v says: mann debated a china hand named lampton who said the american public cares about security and prosperity before democracy in china. according to lampton, democracy in china is not a big priority for americans. and looking at it from a purely selfish point of view- if you (the prc gov’t) keep your family(the chinese people) in line- you pay your taxes, mow your lawn, and you don’t disrupt the wider community, who cares if you beat your wife and kids black and blue behind closed doors? many are banking literally and figuratively that that is the american attitude. our own version of zhuan4 qian2 jiu4 hao3. it is a souless point of view- fitting for the lobbyist lampton is.

The US and China are not yet strategic competitors. I do not envision that they necessarily need become so. Taiwan is a touch stone. But every action to become more aggressive merely works to push the rim of the East China Sea and those nations to the south of China into a tighter embrace with the US. India?

Can anyone think of one nation from Japan right around to India excepting maybe Burma, Bangladesh and to some extent Pakistan that would be willing to follow the Chinese path? Oh yes, North Korea could one day come around to socialism with Korean characteristics. Anyone else? I suppose Vietnam to some extent but I think that these days the Vietnamese appear to be more eager to cozy up to that awful enemy the US. I mean after all the terrible things that we did to them in the Vietnam war, they are now moving toward an ever-increasingly strong alliance with us and … more capitalism.

I think that the author appears to be following in a long string of writers who are seeking to focus on the Chinese efforts in Africa. And if the African nations choose to follow the Chinese model? Well, what of it? Africa simply does not matter to the world. It contributes 2 percent to global trade. Yes, there are commodities and China has a voracious appetite but most of these are fungible products.

The clouds of Darfu are about to wash away that supposed goodwill. Mark my words.

HG

HCG:

I take your point but I doubt that anyone really cares enough about who does good in Africa much less bad to be influenced. After all, the West has done tremendous good to Africa and is demonized none-the-less. I almost find it gratifying to watch the reaction of the bien pensant to this new interloper. It really must make for quite a struggle in their moral worlds. After all, only White Western governments can do bad. Now, that we have the Chinese entering on the scene with Yellow “oppressing” Black. Oh dear. This looks set to become a very interesting contortionist trick. I fully intend to stick around to watch with great amusement.

Stick around Fred, as well we want you to. All your favourites on the left are looking to form some very unholy alliances and work in unison with US conservatives to bitchslap China over the “geoncide Olympics,” among other issues. Usual players, alas.

Meanwhile, speaking with a group of US based fund managers last week and their view is very much one of concern. See what happened to Sinopec and PetroChina as an example.

[quote]Fidelity Slashes Stakes in Petrochina, Sinopec
By TSC Staff
5/16/2007 11:11 AM EDT
Fidelity slashed its stake in PetroChina and Sinopec amid calls for the Boston mutual fund giant to divest its holdings in companies linked to Sudan.

According to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Tuesday, Fidelity held 420,916 ADRs in Petrochina as of March 31. That was down 91% from 4,499,975 shares at the end of December.

The filing also indicates Fidelity had cut its stake in Sinopec ADRs to zero and the end of March from 42,000 at the end of December.

Fidelity declined to say whether it cut its holdings in response to pressure from human rights groups. A spokesman said the company’s individual fund managers make their own investment decisions.

“Fidelity appears to be listening to the concerns of American investors who do not want their money tied to investments that help support the genocide in Darfur,” said Eric Cohen, chairpman of Fidelity Out of Sudan, a a divestment campaign based in Boston. [/quote]

HG

Just curious… what exactly is so wrong with the US economy?

Really, I’d like to know.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]The clouds of Darfu are about to wash away that supposed goodwill. Mark my words.

HG[/quote]
amen to that…but it’s just human rights.

I guess so, and I have to admit to being shamedly ignorant on China’s role in Darfur, but it smells to me like good old fashioned protectionists are suddenly willing to ride a raft of China bashers.

Expect an outraged plea from Richard Gere any day soon.

HG

Just curious… what exactly is so wrong with the US economy?

Really, I’d like to know.[/quote]

Part of the success of the US economy to date has, like Australia and the UK, been due to the expansion of the world economy and the integration of China and India.

However, debt is at its highest level ever and not just in the private sector, but also at a Federal level. Its hard to know how much of the economic success is based on debt, but one things for sure, and thats that its not sustainable.

Of course a falling dollar will only help business and keep unemployment low, but one has to wonder whats going to happen during the inevitable credit crunch and its ensuing spillover not just at the local retail level, but its worldwide consequences.

US demand has fueled the global economic growth. It is precisely the opposite of what you have described.

Not when compared as percentage of GDP. According to the latest Economist, the current account deficit is -6.1 percent, but that of the budget is only -1.7 percent. Taiwan is currently -2.3 percent, Japan -4.5 percent, China -1.5 percent, UK -2.6 percent, Euro area as a whole -1.0 percent. The list goes one. Again, while the US current account deficit is very high, it is less serious for two reasons. A lot of it is investment; second it is in US dollars, ergo not the same level of risk as for nations whose exports are priced in dollars.

This has been a refrain since Nixon floated the dollar in 1971.

I am quaking in my shoes. Why not tell us what will happen and why. You will win an economic prize.

US demand has fueled the global economic growth. It is precisely the opposite of what you have described.[/quote]

Ok you got me on that.

[quote=“fred smith”]

Not when compared as percentage of GDP. According to the latest Economist, the current account deficit is -6.1 percent, but that of the budget is only -1.7 percent. Taiwan is currently -2.3 percent, Japan -4.5 percent, China -1.5 percent, UK -2.6 percent, Euro area as a whole -1.0 percent. The list goes one. Again, while the US current account deficit is very high, it is less serious for two reasons. A lot of it is investment; second it is in US dollars, ergo not the same level of risk as for nations whose exports are priced in dollars.[/quote]

Hah. Yeh, you could call it investment, I think alot of it is speculation. A house of cards possibly.

A lower US dollar has already started to affect some of the companies I’ve invested in. Profit is being squeezed, so you are right on that one, although for some US companies, they’re now forced to pay a higher dollar for some foreign products they can’t do without. Its a two way street my friend.

[quote=“fred smith”]

This has been a refrain since Nixon floated the dollar in 1971.[/quote]

Are you implying that there is no limit to the level of debt you can go?

[quote=“fred smith”]

I am quaking in my shoes. Why not tell us what will happen and why. You will win an economic prize.[/quote]

I’ll have a go…here is a scenario

In the next few years the US will have a housing crash. Its a bubble, and rising interest rates in combination with debt levels create a breaking point where people realise the ‘equity’ from their houses has disappeared. Whether that equity was invested in the stockmarket, other properties or that new BMW has become a serious liability now that the variable loan they’ve been paying has eaten away at their disposable income.

As the credit crunch sets in, consumer spending slows and unemployment rises. As figures start coming out, the panic spreads to the stock market. For those who ‘invested’ their money in the market will find that the average earnings of companies aren’t up to expectations and find the P/E ratios are suddenly way too high.

The slide downwards spreads to world markets and China’s market is frozen by the CCP.

Noted with appreciation.

Fred Smith: [quote]Not when compared as percentage of GDP. According to the latest Economist, the current account deficit is -6.1 percent, but that of the budget is only -1.7 percent. Taiwan is currently -2.3 percent, Japan -4.5 percent, China -1.5 percent, UK -2.6 percent, Euro area as a whole -1.0 percent. The list goes one. Again, while the US current account deficit is very high, it is less serious for two reasons. A lot of it is investment; second it is in US dollars, ergo not the same level of risk as for nations whose exports are priced in dollars. [/quote]

The investment? Perhaps, but these are some pretty serious companies and fund managers. Also, the deficit figures that I have supplied are for budgets. Why is a 1.7 percent budget deficit and falling remarkable? Also, can you tell me why a 6.1 percent current account deficit priced in your own currency would be the problem that you seem to be suggesting?

No doubt that explains why US companies on average are experiencing record profits?

But where is this debt going? I have shown that the federal deficit is low and dropping. The current account deficit is in US dollars. The total debt of the US government is low when compared with other developed nations as a percentage of GDP and again it is dropping. Finally, household debt levels are high but this is reflected largely in housing prices (mortgages). IF housing prices were to fall dramatically, what would for example stop your average homeowner from just not selling for five years? 10 years? 20 years? if it is the primary residence? and not an investment speculative or otherwise? And if the US is in a housing bubble, why not the rest of the world which has also seen housing prices rise dramatically?

[quote]In the next few years the US will have a housing crash. Its a bubble, and rising interest rates in combination with debt levels create a breaking point where people realise the ‘equity’ from their houses has disappeared. Whether that equity was invested in the stockmarket, other properties or that new BMW has become a serious liability now that the variable loan they’ve been paying has eaten away at their disposable income.

As the credit crunch sets in, consumer spending slows and unemployment rises. As figures start coming out, the panic spreads to the stock market. For those who ‘invested’ their money in the market will find that the average earnings of companies aren’t up to expectations and find the P/E ratios are suddenly way too high.

The slide downwards spreads to world markets and China’s market is frozen by the CCP.[/quote]

An interesting theory. Housing prices are already stagnant to dropping in many markets. But again, the housing market price increases are not unique to America. Can you tell me why only the US would be affected by declines? Which P/E ratios are you talking about? Again, average corporate income is at record highs in the US. Or are you referring to credit-card debt? If so, we have had bubbles in this area and they have popped and none of the dramatic collapses in economic activity occurred. Why are we to believe that this is now to be the case?

Fred, we were talking about this planet, Earth; what planet are you referring to? A planet where there is plenty of oil for both China and the USA? What galaxy are you located in by chance?

The US has a $200bln trade imbalance with China. Do you think Paulson is going over there on a weekly basis to learn mah jong?