The Iraqis have an elected government which has asked the US troops to stay. Again, we will be there for at least 60 years if all goes well, maybe even longer. I mean it did not do the uncivilized, barbaric, militaristic Germans much bad having the Americans there to temper their will to act on their propensity to fall in love with any new extremist ism, right? The bases will stay. The insurgency will be defeated. This is not Vietnam and the left is no longer a voice that people trust. It has been so thoroughly discredited that only those whose maturity and mentality stops at college sophomore philosophy and political science subscribe to it. heee heee hee
About that elected government, I wonder just how much control they’ve got beyond the Green Zone. The following article got me to thinking just how far removed the central government is from the rest of the country…
Islamic Law Controls the Streets of Basra
Enforcers patrol the city and Shiite militiamen have taken over the police. Residents accused of infractions are beaten or killed.
[quote=“Louise Roug”]
Physicians have been beaten for treating female patients. Liquor salesmen have been killed. Even barbers have faced threats for giving haircuts judged too short or too fashionable.
Religion rules the streets of this once cosmopolitan city, where women no longer dare go out uncovered.
“We can’t sing in public anymore,” said Hussin Nimma, a popular singer from the south. “It’s ironic. We thought that with the change of the regime, people would be more open to singing, art and poetry.”
Unmarked cars cruise the streets, carrying armed, plain-clothed enforcers of Islamic law. Who they are or answer to is unclear, but residents believe they are part of a battle for Basra’s soul.[/quote]
[color=blue]The real news of the day . . . [/color]
"A U.S. Apache attack helicopter crashed Monday north of Baghdad, killing both pilots,after a witness said he saw the aircraft hit by a rocket that “destroyed it completely in the air.”"
27June05
"A large U.S. military helicopter crashed Tuesday afternoon while carrying at least 16 American troops to reinforce a counterterrorism mission in eastern Afghanistan, U.S. officials confirmed. The fate of those on board was not immediately known, and the area of the crash was rugged and hilly.
Afghan officials said the CH-47 Chinook helicopter was hit by a rocket while flying over Konar province, near the Pakistani border."
28June05
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050624/od_nm/iraq_jeans_dc
[quote]NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) - Students in the Shi’ite Muslim religious Iraqi city of Najaf said that police recently arrested and beat several of them for wearing jeans and having long hair.
“They arrested us because of our hair and because we were wearing jeans,” said student Mohammed Jasim, adding that the arrests took place two weeks ago in the city, the spiritual heart of Iraq’s newly dominant Shi’ite majority.
"They beat us in front of the people. Then they took us to their headquarters, beat us again, shaved our heads and tore our clothes.[/quote]
Reminds me of the forcible police shavings of scruffy longhairs in Farenheight 451 (the 1966 Truffaut film) … probably Ray Bradbury will also get pissy about me recalling this.
Of course, it’s not as though the Iraqi police have anything better to do… like keeping the streets clear of terrorists with car bombs.
At least they weren’t dealing with scruffy short-hairs. I think we all saw a bit too much of that in the recent DVD release of “Shaving Ryan’s Privates.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/30/international/middleeast/30saddam.html?hp
It’s a bit disturbing to me that Saddam Hussein is suddenly the hottest author in the Arab world. Did we have to make a jerk like him a hero? By adopting Caligula’s favorite motto (“let them hate them so long as they fear us”), the U.S. makes everybody who stands up to us into a hero.
[quote]When Raghad Saddam Hussein, Mr. Hussein’s exiled daughter, announced plans to publish the 186-page novel in Amman earlier this week, she set off a fierce debate over Mr. Hussein’s legacy. Jordan’s press and publications department quickly banned the book. Bootleg copies then sold out.
Experts said Mr. Hussein, long held in high esteem by many Jordanians, retained his popularity even as evidence against him was being gathered for a trial in Iraq.
“A lot of people still like him, and he still commands popularity,” said Suleiman al-Horani, owner of the tiny Horani Kiosk in downtown Amman. Within hours of the ban on the book, Mr. Horani says, he sold 50 bootleg copies. “His popularity is increasing because of the success the resistance is now having in Iraq.”
The continued turbulence in Iraq has served to justify his tight grip over the country during his 30-year rule, experts here contend. American missteps, prison scandals and growing corruption have added to his support.[/quote]
[quote=“mofangongren”]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/30/international/middleeast/30saddam.html?hp
I think that is an absurd notion.
I don’t like it either, but for example you know how people in the PRC respect the most craven monstrous dictators for merely being “strong” people in countries they deem hard to rule. Thus, Mao, Stalin and Hitler get a bizarre amount of appreciation from the PRC man on the street.
It’s not a particularly enlightened view (here I would agree “ignorant” would be very good term), but look at the folks it’s coming from. Poor, largely uneducated people living in nations where much of the media is controlled by the state.
According to Martha Raddatz, Senior National Security Correspondent for ABC News:
“From 1980 to 2003 there was 113 suicide bombers WORLDWIDE; in the past 18 months there have been 500 suicide bombers in Iraq.”
further proof that the actions in Iraq have been a total failure.
why would anyone want to embrace/welcome American troops when all it’s going to do is make them a target??
we have lost the battle for the hearts & minds of the Iraqis, not to mention the rest of the world…
Thank you for that Tigerman:
I think that for those of us who actually remember all the ins and outs of what has been going on in Iraq, we can recall that for several years after the establishment of the no fly zones, the Kurdish areas were characterized by economic problems and infighting among various groups. There was talk of Kurdistan becoming a new terrorism haven etc etc blah blah blah. You all get the drill. Today, however, Kurdistan is a success story. Perhaps, with a bit of patience, we will see that success spread to the rest of Iraq? I am an optimist. Regardless of the terrorism now, several things hearten me greatly. The Shias and Kurds have not turned on the Sunnis. The electoral, political and constitutional process are all moving ahead. The terrorists have not made any inroads into the Shia or Kurdish populations. To date, they represent a very small part of the Sunni population as well.
Now, let’s take a look back at the good ole days of 1995 in Iraqi Kurdistan. Sound familiar?
[quote]Northern Iraq was the scene of continued fighting between the two main Iraqi Kurd groups, the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), in which both fighters and civilians were killed. Clashes with the Turkish terrorist organization, the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), also resulted in the death of both fighters and civilians. Both Iraqi Kurdish groups and the PKK reportedly tortured civilians. Indications persist that the Government has offered “bounties” to anyone who assassinates United Nations or other international relief workers in northern Iraq.
During the year, political killings and terrorist actions occurred in northern Iraq. Intra-Kurdish fighting erupted over the first half of the year between two Iraqi Kurdish groups, the PUK and the KDP. An undetermined number of fighters and civilians were killed in these attacks. Later in 1995, elements of the PKK, a Turkish Kurd terrorist group, increased their activity in northern Iraq and reportedly killed local residents in an effort to control a territorial base. These groups sometimes attacked civilians, foreign relief workers, and journalists.
There were reports that Iraqi Kurdish groups tortured captured criminal suspects and political opponents. The PKK also reportedly tortured civilians captured in northern Iraq in the latter half of the year. Civilians were the victims of fighting between the forces of the two main Iraqi Kurd political groups, the KDP and the PUK, during the first half of 1995. A ceasefire during the second half of the year sharply reduced the number of civilian casualties and the use of torture on those detained or arrested.
The PKK committed numerous abuses against civilians in northern Iraq in the latter half of the year. In September the PKK seized eight U.N. relief workers as hostages at the Atrush refugee camp. The camp, populated by some 14,000 Turkish Kurds, has been suspected as a base for PKK terrorist activities. The relief workers were released unharmed after 3 days. In March Turkish armed forces entered northern Iraq in pursuit of PKK terrorists and bases. Human rights organizations charged that the Turkish operation, which lasted 8 weeks, resulted in some civilian deaths. However, Turkish Government authorities stressed that the operation sought to avoid civilian casualties. There were several unconfirmed reports of civilian casualties during four smaller Turkish operations into northern Iraq during 1995.
Land mines in northern Iraq, mostly planted by the Government before 1991, continued to kill or maim civilians. Many of the mines were laid during the Iran-Iraq War, but the army failed to clear them before it abandoned the area. The mines appear to have been haphazardly planted in civilian areas. The Special Rapporteur has repeatedly reminded the Government of its obligations under the Land Mines Protocol, to which Iraq is a party, to protect civilians from the effects of mines. Various nongovernmental organizations continue efforts to remove mines from the area and increase mine awareness among local residents.[/quote]
In an ongoing series, here is Good News from Iraq.
A wide range of topics are covered.
windsofchange.net/archives/007196.php
Great interview on The American Conservative about the logic of suicide bombers. (They hate us because we occupy their neighborhoods.)
from: amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html
[quote] The American Conservative: Your new book, Dying to Win, has a subtitle: The Logic of Suicide Terrorism. Can you just tell us generally on what the book is based, what kind of research went into it, and what your findings were?
Robert Pape: Over the past two years, I have collected the first complete database of every suicide-terrorist attack around the world from 1980 to early 2004. This research is conducted not only in English but also in native-language sources
So let me get this straight. We should leave Iraq immediately so that the 15 percent of the population that are Sunnis can continue to dominate and kill the 85 percent of the population that are Shia and Kurdish. We should allow Saddam to return so that democracy and freedom and human rights are not respected and so mass torture can once again take place. We should also encourage Iraq to invade some other of its neighbors so that people will not feel like blowing themselves up. Did I get that right?
There’s one clause of one sentence in that paragraph which I agree with.
Perhaps you should read the whole article again, Fred.
What I think is remarkable is that Bush managed to get us sandbagged by a third-world tinpot secular dictatorship despite all the warnings to the contrary. Powell was in his administration and Bush didn’t even bother to listen to the Powell Doctrine. Shi’ites, Sunnis, Kurds, Baathist loyalists, “foreign fighters” – when it comes to the civil unrest, this stupid war is full of fruit from a poisonous tree.
What it comes down to is that Bush made a conscious decision to go to a place that had no connection with 9-11, a place that the British evidence shows was made long before 9-11. He went in without planning … and now, in the fog of war, he’s simply not likely to find any working emergency exits.
losing? what war? i thought the war was over when he landed on that aircraft carrier? am i missing something?
I hate to kick a man when he is down but in Dick Cheney’s case I’ll make an exception. When called upon to explain his “last throes” statement Cheney admitted to the possibility of some confusion over the issue and asked us all to “look up the definition of throes” to see whether what he said was “really” accurate or not.
By God it’s a good thing old Nick landed a job as Vice President of the United States cuz if he had to teach English in Taipei they’d laugh him out of the room!
I think you are missing something.
I could be mistaken… however, as I recall, when Bush landed on the carrier the banner proclaimed “Mission Accomplished”… it did not proclaim that the “War” was ended. Am I correct in my recollection?
There are usually many missions that need to be completed in order to win a war. Ousting Saddam was one mission, and that was completed.
I think you are missing something.
I could be mistaken… however, as I recall, when Bush landed on the carrier the banner proclaimed “Mission Accomplished”… it did not proclaim that the “War” was ended. Am I correct in my recollection?
There are usually many missions that need to be completed in order to win a war. Ousting Saddam was one mission, and that was completed.[/quote]
Fairly certain you are correct on this one Tigerman. As I recall Bush’s remarks emphasized that one phase had ended, and that the coalition troops would then start the next phase of securing Iraq.
Not sure how many times he specifically stated that the war wasn’t over in that speech, but it was at least two or three. 
I think you are missing something.
I could be mistaken… however, as I recall, when Bush landed on the carrier the banner proclaimed “Mission Accomplished”… it did not proclaim that the “War” was ended. Am I correct in my recollection?
There are usually many missions that need to be completed in order to win a war. Ousting Saddam was one mission, and that was completed.[/quote]
Quite right TM.
President Bushs’ comment was directed to the completion of the specific mission of the aircraft carrier and the personnel on board. In his speech to those aboard he stated qute clearly that the war was in its early stages and would require more time and effort of the Coalition Forces.
The mis-characterization of this incident by the MSM and toady Bush-bashers has continued to provide giggles of derision whenever its trotted out. 
