[quote=“tango42”]Thanks for the legal pointers and website references.
Wow, some really morally-perfect people here who can cast a stone about a simple question. Glad I asked.[/quote]Nice wise-crack. Remember, you’re the one asking about performing an illegal act in confiscating someones passport.
Yeah, I was dissappointed. Thought this thread was going to be about naughty maids… Bummer. :s
[quote=“bismarck”][quote=“jdsmith”]We’d love to have a maid. Maybe a hot saucy one like on TV, but not that Nanny woman.[/quote]Yeah, I was dissappointed. Thought this thread was going to be about naughty maids… Bummer. :s[/quote]Yeah…thread is useless without pictures…
I have a similar problem. I’m worried that my wife will take everything and leave me. Should I keep her locked in the basement?
Ah, that American kid who bitched and screamed when the Singaporeans caned him. Yeah, I know it hurt–but did he really have to drag President Clinton into it for the sake of his tender little bohiney? Would it have killed him to keep a stiff upper lip and tell the press that he rather enjoyed it, and planned to tell all his friends from Folsom Street?
On the other hand, I think Clinton should have invaded Singapore and publically spanked Lee Kwan-Yew. For the sake of maintaining the dignity of his office, you understand.
Sort of a living, lovin’ maid.
[quote=“tango42”]Thanks for the legal pointers and website references.
Wow, some really morally-perfect people here who can cast a stone about a simple question. Glad I asked.[/quote]
Some people can’t help it, don’t mind them.
Yes he did ask if it’s typical. Obviously he did not know it was illegal until someone told him; implying that he actually had the intent to perform an illegal act is your assumption.
Bear in mind, too, that these maids are getting more and more resources available to them in terms of their rights and what their owners can and cannot do. If you steal her passport and she has the gumption to report you, you’ll get bent over and reamed with a splintered broomstick handle.
Or fined heavily, at least.
Gittin’ downright uppity, these maids are…
C’mon, Rascal… the question was absurd. How would you react to an employer demanding to hold your passport?
I would be offended and pissed, and thus I wouldn’t think of demanding anyone else’s passport, even if it was legal to do so.
One needn’t be a morally-perfect person to be well offended by the OP’s question.
Think about it another way:
What if this weren’t about maids, but were a bushiban owner posting on here asking “innocently” about keeping English teachers’ passports to ensure they don’t run off with blahblahblah. Would anyone be giving the bushiban owner the benefit of the doubt? I don’t think so. Not one bit. Thus, I like to extend roughly the same level of support to other foreign employees here, especially the ones who have even less clout or ability to escape than English teachers. I just don’t see how even thinking about taking someone’s passport is okay.
It is illegal in every country in the world to keep an employee’s passport. A passport is not the property of the person, it is the property of the government that issued it.
However, it IS typical here in Taiwan for employers to keep their maids’ passports, the better able to control them.
When the university I worked at in China took my passport and kept it for 6 weeks, always with some excuse about why they wouldn’t give it back, I finally informed my embassy and got the passport back the next day from a very scared-looking minor school official.
Yes he did ask if it’s typical. Obviously he did not know it was illegal until someone told him; implying that he actually had the intent to perform an illegal act is your assumption.[/quote]And he was told that it was illegal, got a bit miffed when it was repeatedly commented to be an act that was illegal and posted a wise-crack response. A simple mea culpa would have been enough.
Moderator’s note: Your off-topic comments have been moved to here
In a lot of cases where foreign workers live in company dormitories, security is less than ideal.
In some ways the foreign employment company holding their passport is a lot safer than it being kept in a locker in a room where many people are able to come and go frequently.
My wife works for a foreign employment company and says it is standard practice to hold passports, as much for the company’s safety as the employee’s.
The foreign worker usually must seek permission if they wish to travel out of Taiwan and I have never heard of any cases where they refused to return a passport for any valid travel reasons.
Some of their employer’s contract conditions state, if an employee runs away, then her company has to pay a fine of NT$100,000 per person, which is by far more than they earn from a single worker over a 3 year contract.
Last year they had 5 foreign workers that went to work for 3 days, decided they didn’t like it and left, NT$500,000 fine against her company just like that.
According to the employee’s contract, if they don’t like the work, the company will try and find alternative employment, if the employee decides to run away then they are liable for any fines lodged against the employment company.
So you can see why the employment company is eager to keep a hold of their passports.
The solution seems obvious, then.
I think that’s a poor excuse. The company could provide individual security boxes/safes for the foreign employees if security is a concern.
Its illegal. The concern is bogus because the remedy is obvious and easy.
That offends me. Why should anyone require “permission” to leave Taiwan? Do you require “permission” to leave Taiwan? I certainly do not.
That isn’t the problem of the foreign worker. The company should negotiate better terms or devise some other remedy. Insurance?
That does not justify illegally holding the passports of other workers.
Again, that is not the concern nor problem of the foreign workers.
Yes, I can see. But, these companies are breaking the law and I find their behavior extremely offensive.
Does your employer hold your passport?
Yes he did ask if it’s typical. Obviously he did not know it was illegal until someone told him; implying that he actually had the intent to perform an illegal act is your assumption.[/quote]And he was told that it was illegal, got a bit miffed when it was repeatedly commented to be an act that was illegal and posted a wise-crack response. A simple mea culpa would have been enough.[/quote]
I don’t see any reason why he needs to apologize for asking a question.
[quote=“Tigerman”]C’mon, Rascal… the question was absurd
How would you react to an employer demanding to hold your passport?
I would be offended and pissed, and thus I wouldn’t think of demanding anyone else’s passport, even if it was legal to do so.
One needn’t be a morally-perfect person to be well offended by the OP’s question.[/quote]
I dunno, I don’t feel offended by it (which does not mean I agree with taking someone’s passport) and regardless if that question was absurd to some I don’t see why it warrants such harsh responses.
Others have addressed the issue and pointed out the illegality in a much more appropiate manner, and that I think is more helpful than bashing the OP.
Clarification: I meant to say I don’t feel offended by the question by tango42, but if my employer would want to keep my passport and insist on it would offend me, and he/she would not be my employer for long.
The solution seems obvious, then.
I think that’s a poor excuse. The company could provide individual security boxes/safes for the foreign employees if security is a concern.
Its illegal. The concern is bogus because the remedy is obvious and easy.
That offends me. Why should anyone require “permission” to leave Taiwan? Do you require “permission” to leave Taiwan? I certainly do not.
That isn’t the problem of the foreign worker. The company should negotiate better terms or devise some other remedy. Insurance?
That does not justify illegally holding the passports of other workers.
Again, that is not the concern nor problem of the foreign workers.
Yes, I can see. But, these companies are breaking the law and I find their behavior extremely offensive.
Does your employer hold your passport?[/quote]
Firstly let me point out that I was referring to the unskilled laborers on 3 year contracts imported from the Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia or Mongolia.
Companies who employ them know they can provide substandard services, conditions simply because if the workers don’t tow the line or complain too much they will find themselves no longer needed and on the next plane home, there are thousands of other workers just waiting to take their place.
Holding passports is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to illegal activities against foreign workers here, and perpetrated by some of Taiwan’s biggest and most respected companies.
It is fair?..of course not, the companies know the rules and they also know what they can get away with.
Holding a passport may be illegal, but so is turning right on a red light here but the majority of people still do it.
OK. But, I don’t see what relevance this fact holds.
Could almost say the same about my industry… yet, my employer has never attempted to hold my passport.
I know. Its disgusting.
[quote=“PeteDa”]It is fair?..of course not, the companies know the rules and they also know what they can get away with.
Holding a passport may be illegal, but so is turning right on a red light here but the majority of people still do it.[/quote]
Yeah.
White folks are second-class citizens here. Brown people are like 8th-class or something. Barely human. Why should human rights apply to such workers? That’s the thinking behind it.
Dear Original Poster:
You should absolutely keep Your maid’s passport, but that is step one. Chaining people up is impractical and barbaric, so take the ignoramus who suggested that as a joker.
Step 2 is obviously to deny her footwear, and clothes with pockets. It makes escaping a much more difficult task, and easier to detect and deflect in its planning stages. Another upside to it is that barefoot women run slowly. More than one transgression-happy maid has been caught in the jungle not far from my mansion, I am happy to report. Only one has slipped away thus far, but I seriously doubt she made it to the airport. My rottweilers didn’t eat that evening, so they may have caught her without alerting me to it.
Step 3 is optional, but highly recommended. Always hire two maids when you need one, and as soon as a single piece of porcelein breaks, you shoot one of them. I can tell you, that when the servants in my service get uppity and get ideas in their inferior heads, I wave my flintlock pistol around ever so slightly, and their rebelliousness disappears in an instant.
Oh, there we go again. The escape report bell. I must stop typing at this very moment, unfortunately. MacCauley is here with my musket, and the Indian fellow I bought in Mumbai is getting the rottweilers ready. Twice a month, I kid you not. It is getting expensive, maybe I should explore those “tasers” I’ve heard so much about. It is hard to find good hired help these days.
Good luck to you, Sir! I have an Oriental to track down!