Is Korea Next?

Politics Taiwan Politics
21

Hey, here’s an idea. The U.S. is pressing China to do something about North Korea. China is irritated at the U.S. because of Taiwan, but doesn’t want to give North Korea too free a hand for fear they’ll irradiate the peninsula or something.

So they invade it. North Korea becomes an Autonomous Zone of China. The U.S. is unhappy, but at least there’s a marginally more responsible government in charge there now. South Korea rages, Japan looks nervous.

Meanwhile the people of North Korea greet these events with passivity, then some satisfaction once their economy starts to improve.

Whatcha think? Plausible?

22

Because they were victims of Japan last expansionist plan in recent history.

As do most Chinese students who study in Japan. How many Chinese in the PRC actually met a modern day Japanese? So what do most Chinese have to base their opinion of Japan on? WWII information. The rest of us that been to modern day Japan already know the real deal. They became a bunch of lost artist type in my generation, self cultivation. Sure there is some aggressive tendency but they seem to be beating up their own homeless these days.

It’s the same in Japan. Ask an average Japanese about a Chinese and you will get a stereotypical answer as well.

You see that’s because Tokyo is the only one in the last 100 years that actually aggressively expanded. Beijing hasn’t really made claim on imperial tributary states. That’s why they’re tributary, their under diplomatic spheres of influence, not military.

The only imperial tributary state that PRC actually had a military conflict with was Vietnam in the 70’s. And that was more about USSR and some other boarder issues.

Taiwan lays claim to the Spratly Islands as well. That’s why it is called the South China Sea. Personally I blame Geneva coming up with that 220 nautical economic zone of the coast of each country, without actually thinking about the rest of world history.

Japan and SK also have a dispute about the body of water between them as well.

I believe the Spratly Island has 6 countries claiming them. But then again there’s oil under there. So more incentive for control.

I’m just suggestion PRC would only take control of Korea if and only if NK and SK collapse into chaos. Just like if PRC fell into total chaos, ROC would make a claim at the mainland.

23

AC:

I read in the Korea Times that a former Korean lawmaker has a document where former Chinese PM Zhou En Lai recognized that Koguryo was Korean. The following two links should do a better job of communicating Korean concerns.

From the Korea Herald;

China`s Misguided Nationalism
koreaherald.co.kr/site/data/ … art_id%22=

From The Korea Times August 13

Koguryo Belongs To Korea: Chinese Ex-PM

times.hankooki.com/

24

And Zhou Enlai also admitted that Taiwan was not a part of China (as did Mao Zedong). Fat lot of good that did.

Brian

25

Brian, have you got a reference for either of those? When did they change their mind and decide that Taiwan was part of China?

26

Brian, have you got a reference for either of those? When did they change their mind and decide that Taiwan was part of China?[/quote]

Mao Zedong said it in an interview with Edgar Snow back in 1936. I am not sure about Zhou Enlai however.

27

I am hearing news reports that China has claimed that the Korean Peninsula was historically a part of China and should be returned to the motherland.

New editions of Chinese history books will include this new historical interpretation.

Does anyone have any updates on this?

28

The update is that importation of pure-grade Columbian cocaine has reached the Zhongnanhai with alarming results.

29

I just find it odd “PRC nationalism is bad”
“ROC nationalism is good”

I mean revisionist history is nothing new. China has been going back and reinterpreting history forever, the key is of course Chinese historian now really and fake history.

30

[quote=“ac_dropout”]No I’m serious I can’t get to the first link. A Korean 404 message comes up.

And I read the 3rd article you pointed to. Oh is that the only way Korea can come up with a non-partisan political response, the “China threat” as well.

The entire Asia Pacific complains about Japanese version of history in WWII, but no one is thinkig Japan is going to repeat WWII imperialism agian.

Before the UN ruling was China afraid Korea was going to take over Manchuria and Heilongjiang.[/quote]

First of all, your statement about “Japan repeating imperialism” is a complete nonsense to me given the situation. I presume it is your fantasy under influence of CCP brainwashing. How can a country with shrinking population, a bunch of anime-watching wimps, perennial deflation and $5 trillion dollars of budget deficit comparable only to the United States and Italy in terms of % of GDP can afford to “repeat the war”?

To me the likely suspect of “imperialism” is PRC China with skyrocketing trade surplus with the U.S. and the world, unfair trade practices such as industrial spying in the U.S. soil, and its rapidly growing population especially male (see a recent book “Bare Branches” to see how growing male population relates to aggressive expansionist political regime).

31

[quote=“ac_dropout”]At least the NK And SK can muster up the courage to stand under 1 flag during the olympics.

I always take with a grain of salt what White Asian Study academics precieve as issues in Asia.

I mean read the spin on the article, he’s trying to link a UN ruling about valued historical sites, and trying somehow to make a connection of discrediting the PRC effort in leading the negotiations over NK nuclear weapons program.

How the hell does UN approved historical sites rank up there with

  1. USA calling NK evil on the world stage, undoing the work of the “Sunshine Policy”
  2. USA military personnel raping and killing SK civilians with impunity outside SK legal system
  3. USA dictated rules of engagement that increased NK and SK tensions.
  4. Japanese colonialization of Korea
  5. Japanese government refusial to official apologize for their WWII transgression and inability to correct their history books on recent modern history.[/quote]

Regarding this message about history especially on 5), I must say you are under DEEP influence of PRC spin machine. “Japan didn’t apologize for the war” is a complete bogus and an outright lie. An amateur historian about Asian history like me can say this much: we should study FACTS before we say something on the Forumosa.

1982,August 24
Prime Minister Zenko Suzuki at the press conference I am painfully aware of the responsibility for inflicting serious damages (on China and South Korea) during the past war. We need to recognize criticism that (Japan’s occupation)
was invasion.

1990,May 25
Prime Minister Toshiki Kaifu at the meeting with the South Korean President I humbly feel deep regret and express forthright apology
for the fact that the people of the Korean peninsula experienced unbearable anguish and grief because of our country’s action.

1993,August 11
Prime Minister Morihiro Hosokawa at the first press conference after he assumed the premiership. The last war was war of aggression.

1993,November 7
Prime Minister Morihiro Hosokawa during his 22-hour visit to Kyongju, Korea (Short visit only to make a statement of apology) As an assailant country of the last war, I’d like to express deep regret from the bottom of my heart and apologize

1994,July 24
Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama during his visit to Korea I’d like to express my apology from the bottom of my heart and deep regret seriously.

1995,August 15
Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama in the announcement of the 50-year anniversary of the end of the WW2 Not so long time ago, at one time in the past, (Japan) made wrong state policies and the colonization and invasion brought enormous damages and sufferings, especially for the
peoples of Asian countries. I humbly accept this historical fact and express my deep remorse and heartfelt apology.

Prime Minister Keizo Obuchi in the official papers of the joint declaration of &Japan-Korea partnership toward 21st century which President Kim Dae-jung &valued very highly. Deep regret and heartfelt apology for the people of South Korea

32

Didn’t you know that?

Also, Taichung is right about PRC news being “created” rather than “reported”.

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Taichungmafia,

But we’re talking about removing statements from a website. Do you know what those statements were exactly? I don’t.

Also those statements were not replaced with China owns Korea, were they?

Or has everyone lost their minds, since PRC has no statement, we’ll just make up statements for them?[/quote]

33

[quote]Bu Lai En wrote:
And Zhou Enlai also admitted that Taiwan was not a part of China (as did Mao Zedong). Fat lot of good that did.

Brian, have you got a reference for either of those? When did they change their mind and decide that Taiwan was part of China?[/quote]

Ludahai, gave you the 1936 source for the Mao quote. I believe Zhou’s quote was much later (in WW2), but you’ll have to wait for me to find it. I’ve read too many books recently, and can’t remember which one.

Brian

34

Damn, I can’t find the Zhou Enlai reference. I found the Mao one which was something I read recently. The Zhou one, must ahve been earlier, or, I guess, there’s also the possibility that I was wrong about it.

Brian

35

I see the bottom-up/self-censorship propaganda machine in South has a longer reach than I thought. I realize the US military has many, many problems with locals everywhere they go, but the situation in Korea has no parallel. The kind of mechanisms at work to demonize the USFK (United States Forces Korea) remind me of the lack of dissenting voice in the Arab world or the kind of bizarre unspoken understanding of what exactly to say and to ignore that goes on in China. Live there for a few years and you’ll know what I mean.

First of all, the trick the Korean population uses (yes, I know what I’m saying with this statement) is that they don’t mention that the majority of “crimes” by the USFK are traffic incidents. In this regard, I quote the statistics provided in HOW DOES THE STATUS OF FORCES AGREEMENT REALLY WORK? by Robert T. Mounts, United States SOFA Secretary and COL Uldric L. Fiore, Jr., USFK Judge Advocate
(korea.army.mil/pao/news/000403.htm):

“The approximately 50,000 US military and civilian ‘SOFA-status’ personnel in Korea actually were involved in only approximately 900 SOFA ‘incidents’ this past year (in 1999), and over 600 of those were traffic accidents. In 1999, there were only 11 truly serious ‘crimes’ (such as vehicular manslaughter (2), and robbery (9)), fewer than 150 lesser crimes such as larceny or aggravated assault, and less then 100 minor offenses (simple assaults, disorderly conduct, etc.).”

If a little more digging is done, you’ll see that US military personnel are by far more law abiding than the local population and commit far fewer crimes (violent or otherwise) per capita (even when you take only those males of the same age group as the sample for the local population in an effort to be fair). The situation in Korea is not unlike the situation found in Okinawa.

"The number of male Okinawans in a comparable age group to the SOFA status group (roughly 15-50), and the ratio of Okinawans vs. SOFA status: Japan

36

Nice post Shawerma, thanks for putting things into perspective!

37

Good work Shawerma :thumbsup:

38

[quote]Damn, I can’t find the Zhou Enlai reference. I found the Mao one which was something I read recently. The Zhou one, must have been earlier, or, I guess, there’s also the possibility that I was wrong about it.
[/quote]

See the reference in this thread:

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … c&start=30

Zhou Enlai

“For the very reason that we oppose aggression by others, we also oppose committing acts of aggression against others ourselves… The Chinese nation also opposes imperialists committing acts of aggression against other countries… Therefore we must sympathise with the independent liberation movements of other nation states. We must thus not only support the anti-Japanese movements of Korea and Taiwan as well as the Nations of the Balkans and of Africa against German-Italian aggression, but we must also sympathise with the national liberation movements of India, South East Asia and others.”

39

Thanks turret. I’m glad I wasn’t imagining it.

Brian

40

Shawerma,

Did the SK government waive the right to litigate the “accident” of the most recent 2 SK girls that were ran over in a training exercise in 2002?

There was quite a large and vocal protest by the SK populace to have the individuals tried in the SK legal system.

Do you believe that this 2002 incident ranks as high as the UN recent ruling about historical sites that span PRC, NK, and SK?