Interesting article on how former German Chancellor Schroeder and his former Foreign Minister are busy lobbying against each other on… two new pipelines that are to be constructed to bring energy to Europe. Funny isn’t it? how these two were heroes for standing up against Bush and the allied effort prior to the war against Saddam and many of their supporters nodded their heads knowingly, sagely… it was all about oil you see… and yes, apparently it was and is… and now these two principled former oppositionists are involved in lucrative projects involving… oil and pipelines… Oh dear… And Bush and Cheney? retired for the most part… Strange that neither of these two was able to find himself such a deal… but then had either of them… no doubt we would have been seeing some very fantastic and sensational headlines… Oh dear… what can this mean for our principled Germans? where is the self-righteous indignation, the sanctimonious outrage? the concern for a world where leaders of nations do not sell out to oil interests? Probably just as non-existent as when it was revealed that Germany had armed Saddam and was responsible for the bulk of its nuclear, chemical and missile technology and arsenal prior to the first Gulf War. Dear me… dear me…
Slow day at the office? Not at all… I just find it eminently amusing to highlight how little play this kind of news gets. Had this been any of the Republican leadership, we would have the usual nutjobs (and we know who they are don’t we?) along with the self-righteous, sanctimonious types (we know who they are don’t we) screaming paranoid theories or pompously pontificating about how the US leadership, etc. etc. had sold out or how this or that proved that it had all been about oil and nefarious naughty night-dark interests who (fill in the blank) pipelines, oil companies, lobbying groups blah blah blah were controlling this that the other etc etc etc. Yet, when two of the key leaders behind the opposition to the US-led effort in Iraq are so completely caught with their pants down in naked, self-aggrandizing money-grubbing, greedy, corporate efforts involving (fill in the blank) Russian mafia, Central Asian oligarchy, nefarious oil company interests, why there is absolute silence and disinterest. It merely proves my point all along. This has never been about principled objective standards but laughably ludicrous lashings of anti-American, anti-Republican delusionally delinquent “ideals” (cough cough) that seek to squeeze the US into any sort of situation to engage in rambling ravings about how it needs to engage in efforts to x y or z, while the nation of any of the posters’ citizenships are given a sweeping pass. Now, why do you suppose that is? oh yes and hahahahaahahahahaahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahhahaahah
Well, thanks Tainan Cowboy, but I really have to wonder… no paranoid ramblings from you know whom… nor any comment from any of our usual Canadian and European friends… who appeared to be so worried about ethics… conflict of interest, fascist subjugation of democratic values, selling out to oil interests, whoring leaders out to greedy, money-grubbling large corporate cabals… well, one is merely baffled isn’t one? by the failure of any of these right-meaning, bien-pensant global citizens and do gooders to even comment on what has to be the most incredible sellout by any national leadership in recent memory… Had this been Bush or Cheney, can you IMAGINE the pages of posts, the multitude of threads that would have emerged to engage in US and Republican bashing? I can. And yet, these passionate posters really did SEEM to FEEL that objectives, ethics, morality, principles, international law, multilateralism, were key to building a new fairer world… I took them at face value and never doubted their high-mindedness, did you? hahahahaahahahahaahahahhahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahhahah
IMHO I think it is for the very reasons you state that Europe can’t get the US. They cannot believe that something might be done for some kind of ideal - and when it has - well, look at the outcomes. A very cynical world view.
However, still doesn’t make Iraq correct or smart.
Ah… but I am questioning that this was about Ideals (note the capital i) at all. I think that this talk of principles and ideals has always been windowdressing for US and Republican bashing unless that is the “ideal” in question? perhaps? Point noted on the Iraq effort with the proviso that it be remembered that the vast majority of both NATO and EU members went along with the plan and saw necessity behind removing Saddam. Again, it was only the leadership of France and Germany in particular along with the usual neutrals who opposed. Given the soaring rhetoric about the need to respect principles etc etc regarding this matter, one is certainly at the very least taken back by the chutzpah of two of the leaders who exhibited and professed these “ideals” most to “sell out” to the very oil interests that were supposedly behind the motivations for Bush and Cheney to trumpet the call to war against Saddam. I mean if it were not so pathetic, it would be quite funny… almost on the level of an Oscar Wilde play me thinks… but then I do think and apparently that is too much to ask for of the “bien-piensant” (double irony!)
Ideals? Surely you jest, sir. But the ideal is forming a counter to to the US and playing up to popular (populist?) sentiment. That was more important than the substance of the issue at hand. By accident, (only), they happened to be right, not by ideals. So, we should be surprised when they follow equally “pragmatic” policies in terms of oil and pipelines? After all, where was the outrage over Georgia?
Perhaps, I am misunderstanding you but the whole point of taking out Serbia was to stop aggression against peoples (deliberate)but this was applauded/acceptable to the degree that the UN and “international law” could not only be flouted with impunity but also lauded all the same. And yet, no one engaged in aggression against peoples more than Saddam. He was a serial aggressor. Yes, where was the outrage against Russia when it beat up an innocent country like Georgia? where were the marches in London? Paris? Berlin? Oh that’s right… Georgia was not about oil so why march? why protest against a fine, upstanding member of the international community like Russia? Apparently, as it is not really a democracy and makes no pretense of respecting human rights, it had no need to “live up to higher ideals,” in which case, see point one about the lack of an objective standard regarding what those “ideals” should be… but I shall be laughing loudly for quite some time about the lack of an “interest” in the “ideals” of former “idealistic” leaders working (both) to promote the interests of Big Oil. Dear me. Dear me… the deafening silence is like a nuclear explosion (er, if you get my drift…) hahahaahahahahahaahaha
Again, I think we find our answer in expediency. Serbia was too close to home to ignore, the failings of soft power too obvious and too well covered by CNN. Saddam? Just another run of the mill tin-pot ME despot…kinda like…Africa? As for Russia; it has too tight a grip on the gas and we’re past this horrid cold-war mentality.
Hey hey hey! Not so fast! My vacation wouldn’t be complete without a proper send off to our favorite Cheney torture fan.
When Germany experienced its last false flag attack and their accused attackers were demonized while energy resources and military strategy merged aggressively against other nations, it took 13 years and over 60 million souls to end. And yes many of those political, legal, and military advocates faced the evidence and were executed or imprisoned for life.
Are you saying Germany now appears or even expects to invade another nation under whatever pretenses to secure future gas or oil?
Nope.
You’d just like to scream away your piles of limp defenses of Cheney torture policies, terror interrogations, outstanding war crimes of aggression and war crimes against peace, and of course, the decrepit moral justification of militarily invading two “accused” countries Afghanistan and Iraq (while begging for Iran too).
Since you used this thread as a goodbye spasm, hahaduhuhheehaw, this keeps coming up… so maybe you’ll be kind to your “battle buddy” (lol) and help him out. I’ve been waiting for your other hardcore Republican TainanCowboy to answer if he agrees with the krauthammer that Americans have a moral obligation to torture. He remains silently loyal, so have you. You find comfort in tacitly agreeing or find it too politically damning to condemn torture?
And what’s up with the expected lack of internet… even if you’re going off to run a cash register or pour whine at a pinky club, you’ll no doubt find yourself borrowing a connection within 2 weeks to blow some more fluff our way.
[quote=“j.scholl”]Hey hey hey! Not so fast! My vacation wouldn’t be complete without a proper send off to our favorite Cheney torture fan.
When Germany experienced its last false flag attack and their accused attackers were demonized while energy resources and military strategy merged aggressively against other nations, it took 13 years and over 60 million souls to end. And yes many of those political, legal, and military advocates faced the evidence and were executed or imprisoned for life.
Are you saying Germany now appears or even expects to invade another nation under whatever pretenses to secure future gas or oil?
Nope.
You’d just like to scream away your piles of limp defenses of Cheney torture policies, terror interrogations, outstanding war crimes of aggression and war crimes against peace, and of course, the decrepit moral justification of militarily invading two “accused” countries Afghanistan and Iraq (while begging for Iran too).
Since you used this thread as a goodbye spasm, hahaduhuhheehaw, this keeps coming up… so maybe you’ll be kind to your “battle buddy” (lol) and help him out. I’ve been waiting for your other hardcore Republican TainanCowboy to answer if he agrees with the krauthammer that Americans have a moral obligation to torture. He remains silently loyal, so have you. You find comfort in tacitly agreeing or find it too politically damning to condemn torture?
And what’s up with the expected lack of internet… even if you’re going off to run a cash register or pour whine at a pinky club, you’ll no doubt find yourself borrowing a connection within 2 weeks to blow some more fluff our way.[/quote]
But they did just recently recognize the Nazi Germany as a “as a constitutional state in which the rule of law prevailed.” when they refused to return land confiscated from Prince Friedrich zu Solms-Baruth by the Gestapo. Now that is something to laugh about!
[quote]Prince Friedrich zu Solms-Baruth was one of a handful of aristocrats who took part in the failed attempt to blow up the Nazi leader on 20 July 1944. The Gestapo arrested him the next day and forced him to sign a legal contract formally handing over 17,300 acres of family estates and castles to Heinrich Himmler, the Gestapo chief.
…
A court in the city of Potsdam rejected pleas for their restitution; arguing that the contract was legal because German law still recognised Nazi Germany as a constitutional state in which the rule of law prevailed.[/quote]
If that is correctly worded (considering this isn’t an official translation of the ruling), wow, yes that is very troubling. Not sure why its something to laugh about though.
As we know, it took an international trial to bring nazi criminals to justice. Fastforward to present… what court system in the near future will pronounce authority to examine evidence and pass judgment on 21st century war criminals?
Anybody else besides our very own JScholl have a problem understanding the point of this thread? I note that J Scholl has gotten this rather badly as well. Well, not unexpected, but certainly beyond even the realm of expected responses from even given my already low LOW expectations of J Scholl and his er intelligence? critical reading (or any for that matter) skills…
I will assume that you are joking and will take your comment in the fun spirit that it is offered. If not, I will point to the fact that Elequa and Tainan Cowboy seemed to have gotten my point right off the bat… heeee heee heee eheeee (just to provide a needed change from the usual hahahahaahhahh).
I will assume that you are joking and will take your comment in the fun spirit that it is offered. If not, I will point to the fact that Elequa and Tainan Cowboy seemed to have gotten my point right off the bat… heeee heee heee eheeee (just to provide a needed change from the usual hahahahaahhahh).[/quote]
But what is your point? I don’t think you actually have one. If you do, please state it clearly. BTW, having TC “get your point” means only that it is right wing, not logical or valid.
Reread the first page and then let me know again if you really do not get this. I thought it was crystal clear but I am open to those who genuinely are not able to get the gist of it.
