I see in the last couple days that the Haitien government now is stopping relief supplies because the importing relief organizations have not paid “jack boot” taxes on relief goods. If you contribute your dolloars to help, count on a “duty” that must be paid to the government before they recieve the goods.
What a crock of shit. Hell, there are needy people all over the world and Haiti is getting the best of the best that the world can offer. I guess, maybe the government hasn’t been getting there due. After all, the presidential palace was destroyed and NOBODY has rebuilt his mansion to it’s former glory. The world has simply been too busy with the damned tents, food and water.
The world should know that the government officials need their palaces rebuit. We should show a little respect!
My humble opinion, get out. Let the people drag the wankers from their ruins and occupy what is left. Damned better than no tent.
[quote=“Enigma”]I see in the last couple days that the Haitien government now is stopping relief supplies because the importing relief organizations have not paid “jack boot” taxes on relief goods. If you contribute your dolloars to help, count on a “duty” that must be paid to the government before they recieve the goods.
What a crock of shit. Hell, there are needy people all over the world and Haiti is getting the best of the best that the world can offer. I guess, maybe the government hasn’t been getting there due. After all, the presidential palace was destroyed and NOBODY has rebuilt his mansion to it’s former glory. The world has simply been too busy with the damned tents, food and water.
The world should know that the government officials need their palaces rebuit. We should show a little respect!
My humble opinion, get out. Let the people drag the wankers from their ruins and occupy what is left. Damned better than no tent.[/quote]
I don’t know what to say. On one hand I agree with you. Haiti is one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. The politicians divert massive amounts of foreign aid right into their own pockets and have been doing so for decades.
On the other hand, if all of the countries and people giving aid suddenly stop, it’s the innocent Haitians who will pay the price. It won’t be those sons of bitches in the government who have been stealing aid money that will suffer. They have their off-shore bank accounts, stockpiles of food and the ability to get whatever they need. They aren’t the ones who line up for hours to get a waterproof tarp since Haiti is going into the rainy season in April.
The scale of destruction in Haiti is so massive, so severe that if we try and punish the politicians for being corrupt, for trying to tax aid money, we will only end up hurting the truly desperate. The one’s who need help won’t get it. The Inter-American Development Bank has estimated it will cost nearly 14 Billion USD to rebuild Haiti back to where it was before the earthquake. To put that into perspective, the Haitian GDP in 2008 was 6.95 Billion USD. It would take every cent that every person in the country makes for two full years to get back to the level they were before the earthquake (assuming there is no corruption).
So I understand your anger, but I think that stopping relief supplies would be a poor move. The ones who are on the edge will fall while the idiots who think it’s a good idea to enact taxes on relief supplies will continue being corrupt bastards.
I agree that aid should not be stopped. In fact, it should be expanded to include items that will help the people overthrow the ruling caste.
There are two options as I see it:
- Give aid. The corrupt powers will remain wealthy and powerful, and the needy will suffer less.
- Stop aid. The corrupt powers will remain wealthy and powerful, and the needy will suffer more.
Amen. Bunch of whiners and complainers. Massive quake completely devastates the country killing, crippling, maiming hundreds of thousands and totally destroying their houses, schools, businesses, hospitals, infrastructure and now they expect handouts from us. Fuck 'em. They were already one of the poorest, most screwed up nations on earth beforehand. It’s their destiny, their rightful place in the world, what they deserve. Worthless heathens. Why should they expect anything from us? I’ve got mine, let them get their own.
[Note: Is that what you were trying to say? I’m sorry I didn’t read more closely, because I was just so amazed someone would write such insane comments.]
What about voodoo? That could be infused with tons of aid.
Frankly being haitian, I know for sure that haiti have alot of corruption. But you guys need to know that Haiti is not develop enough to handle something of that expand. Hsaiti is never prepare for anything. I have family sleeping in tent or outside getting wet. It is not ajoke out there. Your though of stopping the aid is understandable but at the same time think a bit larger. What about the innocent? What about the women with four kids that the earthquake killed her husband? What about that little boy with no more parents? I know my country, I know how corrupted the government can be. But stopping the help and letting those innocent people to die is really unfair.
My feelings were that sure, whoever you give aid to, most of it is going into the pockets of the government. Not all, though. So if you give, say, US$100, maybe the victims will see US$5 bucks. That’s better than nothing, no?
Back the relief organizations up with an international military force, declare martial law under UN auspices, and authorize them to shoot any official who demands jack-boot taxes or other bribes. 
Arrest the entire government and hold as many as is appropriate on charges of corruption and/or crimes against humanity and set up a UN-backed caretaker government, trials of the corrupt officials, gallows for those found guilty, and a UN-sponsored election for a new government. Use a portion of international aid to raise officials’ salaries so that they are less motivated to be corrupt, and hand each one a miniature noose along with his or her first paycheck as a reminder of the alternative. Repeat as often as necessary until there are enough ex-officials’ skeletons swinging in the breeze to scare honesty into a new generation.
Meanwhile, increase aid to Haiti, including major programs to help build the educational system, health care and job opportunities. Leave the ruined palace in place, as is, as a reminder of what happens to bad governments.
(BTW, Nissoue, I hope your family are safe and well. Best wishes to them.)
[quote=“Dragonbones”]Back the relief organizations up with an international military force, declare martial law under UN auspices, and authorize them to shoot any official who demands jack-boot taxes or other bribes.
Arrest the entire government and hold as many as is appropriate on charges of corruption and/or crimes against humanity and set up a UN-backed caretaker government, trials of the corrupt officials, gallows for those found guilty, and a UN-sponsored election for a new government. Use a portion of international aid to raise officials’ salaries so that they are less motivated to be corrupt, and hand each one a miniature noose along with his or her first paycheck as a reminder of the alternative. Repeat as often as necessary until there are enough ex-officials’ skeletons swinging in the breeze to scare honesty into a new generation.
Meanwhile, increase aid to Haiti, including major programs to help build the educational system, health care and job opportunities. Leave the ruined palace in place, as is, as a reminder of what happens to bad governments.
(BTW, Nissoue, I hope your family are safe and well. Best wishes to them.)[/quote]
I think your idea has merits DB, but in reality it just won’t work. The US was accused of trying to occupy Haiti when it sent in soldiers and Marines just to reestablish an airfield to get relief supplies in. Imagine what will happen if we actually did send in an occupying force, even under with UN banner. The cries of “US Imperialism” would be heard around the world in Latin America and Europe. The reporters will be waiting for the first instance of a food riot where US/UN troops have to fire into the crowd. Opposition politicians everywhere will demand their troops return home.
The next issue would be trying to get the UN, US, Russia, China and France to agree. The UN would demand lots of cash from the US to send in their aid workers, Russia wouldn’t trust any action the US did, France would take an opposite position on everything just to be obstructionist, China would sit back and watch and the US would once again point out how ineffective the UN is. If we went it alone, we’d be colonialists. If we get a multi-country effort to help rebuild Haiti, years will be wasted while diplomats argue about who gets the contracts to supply the rebuilding effort.
On a side note, I’m confused about where you get the idea that you could arrest the government for crimes against humanity. Corruption would be easier to prove, but crimes against humanity? These guys are corrupt but they aren’t Chemical Ali’s. They didn’t commit rape and genocide against their people like warlords in Africa. They’re just corrupt governmental bastards, just as you’d find in any government anywhere in the world. There just happen to be more of them in Haiti.
I don’t know that increasing aid would help. The US has been giving massive amounts of aid to Haiti for years but it hasn’t helped. Increasing the aid amount means more will be siphoned off to corrupt official’s villas. As long as the aid is control of the Haitian government it will be stolen by corrupt bastards. You have to ask yourself how to improve the usage of the money that’s given to them rather than increasing it.
Haiti and the Dominican Republic are on the exact same island but it’s night and day difference. The populations are comparable (DR: 9.6 million to H: 9.03 million), but that’s about it. The literacy rate is lower in Haiti (52% to 87%), the GDP is much less (11.6 billion USD to 78.8 Billion USD), the poverty rate is higher, etc. Whatever the DR has been doing has been working. What Haiti has been doing hasn’t.
What Haiti needs is a working system, not major aid to build the education system or try and fund job creation. There won’t be any new jobs as long as it takes 195 days to start a business (world average is 35 days). If you want construction permits to build a new warehouse, be prepared to wait an average of 1,179 days to get all the necessary permits. If you own private property, you’re basically screwed if you want to register it. It takes, on average, 405 days to register private property. To fix this will require that Haiti’s entire system be overhauled and their weak court system be replaced with something that guarantees enforcement for the poverty stricken. That can’t be done overnight, and it won’t be easy.
[quote=“Dragonbones”]Back the relief organizations up with an international military force, declare martial law under UN auspices, and authorize them to shoot any official who demands jack-boot taxes or other bribes.
Arrest the entire government and hold as many as is appropriate on charges of corruption and/or crimes against humanity and set up a UN-backed caretaker government, trials of the corrupt officials, gallows for those found guilty, and a UN-sponsored election for a new government. Use a portion of international aid to raise officials’ salaries so that they are less motivated to be corrupt, and hand each one a miniature noose along with his or her first paycheck as a reminder of the alternative. Repeat as often as necessary until there are enough ex-officials’ skeletons swinging in the breeze to scare honesty into a new generation.
Meanwhile, increase aid to Haiti, including major programs to help build the educational system, health care and job opportunities. Leave the ruined palace in place, as is, as a reminder of what happens to bad governments. [/quote]Chewy, I don’t know how you hacked DB’s acct but you are going to be perma-banned over this.
Basically everything Lbksg said and some fun facts:
- This will make Chavez’s day. They went apeshit over the Marines protecting the landing zone and supply network.
- The UN and soldiers under the UN were already in Haiti.
- I don’t know how familiar you are with the UN running failed countries but they would make Haiti seem well run.
- The US ran Haiti as a colony and they enjoyed a better standard of living and public services, so they kicked us out to live in grinding poverty and rampant corruption. They’d rather be misruled by their own, then well-governed by others.
- There will be zero help from the UK. After what we recently did to them over the Falklands, they aren’t going to do nothing except stick a thumb in our eye.
- Did you live through the same 8 years of the Bush administration that I did? Because if you did, I can’t even fathom you coming up with this idea.
Cheers DB, I’ll let you know if the epazote sprouts or not. 
Nissoue, wow, I’m so sorry for what has happened to your country, and all the suffering there.
Can I ask, what is your perception of which aid agencies do the best job? I donated to the Red Cross and Oxfam, but if you have any info on what the most effective way to donate money is, I’d be grateful. Obviously, we’re all aware that money goes astray, and we feel frustrated when we hear that people aren’t getting any help.
I hope your family are safe and coping as best as possible.
Thanks for the concern. and yes my family are safe THANK GOD. As for the best way to donate I will say what is the best way for you. I am Haitian I gave money to YELE which is a foundation made by Wiclef Jean (who is a haitian). I know that with him at least that help will go where it needs to go. But I do beleive that all the help out there are trying to do there best. And I really want to thank all the people that have been able to HELP.
Thank you
Nissoue, wow, I’m so sorry for what has happened to your country, and all the suffering there.
Can I ask, what is your perception of which aid agencies do the best job? I donated to the Red Cross and Oxfam, but if you have any info on what the most effective way to donate money is, I’d be grateful. Obviously, we’re all aware that money goes astray, and we feel frustrated when we hear that people aren’t getting any help.
I hope your family are safe and coping as best as possible.[/quote]
No, you don’t have to thank anyone for basic help. Everything good I have is because I was born relatively rich, in a safe place. It’s important to share what we have.