Nope, you missed my point.
Again, due strictly to the pattern the Bushies established with respect to their political enemies who served in Vietnam (e.g., McCain and Cleland), nothing they say now about Kerry should be paid the slightest attention.
Since ‘releas[ing] his records’ obviously meets that criteria, it should quite rightly be ignored.
Simple enough?
your bush-hate is starting to cloud your logic. you are ignoring MY request that kerry release his records because you think bush is a sneaky bastard.
you won’t even acknowledge arguments against kerry now because you hate bush.
<-- this is me talking, not karl rove or george bush -->
if kerry is going to make such a big deal about his military experience, he should release all his recrods. after all, he did make a lot of noise about bush releasing his own military recrods.
<---->
you can ignore that if you want, but it just shows that you’ve escaped the realm of civil discourse and have now entered the dark pit of partisan denial.
Nope, you missed my point.
Again, due strictly to the pattern the Bushies established with respect to their political enemies who served in Vietnam (e.g., McCain and Cleland), nothing they say now about Kerry should be paid the slightest attention.
Since ‘releas[ing] his records’ obviously meets that criteria, it should quite rightly be ignored.
Simple enough?[/quote]
in my post, i only ever refer to iybf. in your rebuttal, not once did you even address iybf. instead, you go off and rant about evil bushies. once again, another tangent post. 
Whatever.
Look, I’ll meet you, IYBF, TMTM, and anyone else here: before we can take one iota of what you refer to as my casting of the Bush administration as ‘evil Bushies’ (actually, I kind of like it :bravo: ) seriously - as worth the first thought, the first entry into my or your cerebral cortex - we must go back and establish what happened with, say, Max Cleland.
Was that fair of the Bushies, what happened to Max Cleland? er, Was that fair of the Evil Bushies?
Because if we don’t, how do I know that the same thing that happened with Cleland isn’t happening now with Kerry?
once again, you have not even attempted to address the point that iybf was trying to make. i’m with iybf. if kerry wants to make his military service the centerpiece of his campaign, he should release his military records. you can carry on ignoring our argument and ranting about what a horrible person karl rove is…
only a hypocrite asks for his opponent to release his records and then refuses to release his own.
[quote=“Flipper”]once again, you have not even attempted to address the point that iybf was trying to make. I’m with iybf. if Kerry wants to make his military service the centerpiece of his campaign, he should release his military records. you can carry on ignoring our argument and ranting about what a horrible person karl rove is…
only a hypocrite asks for his opponent to release his records and then refuses to release his own.[/quote]
And once again you don’t get my point.
Flipper, this Kerry thing simply goes nowhere under Bush, due to his prior history with Cleland and McCain.
Period.
Nope, you missed my point.
Again, due strictly to the pattern the Bushies established with respect to their political enemies who served in Vietnam (e.g., McCain and Cleland), nothing they say now about Kerry should be paid the slightest attention.
Since ‘releas[ing] his records’ obviously meets that criteria, it should quite rightly be ignored.
Simple enough?[/quote]
C’mon. flike. The matter really is simple. Dems demand Bush release his record. Why should it be unfair now for us to demand that Kerry release his record.
It cannot get much simpler than that.
I don’t care who is doing the “sliming”… the Republicans do not have a monopoly on that, you know.
As an American preparing to vote for one of two men to lead our country, I want to know the truth about John Kerry’s military service.
Had Kerry not made his military service an issue, I wouldn’t really care. But he has made claims about his service that he believes support his qualification to be the President.
Its fair to ask that Kerry release his records and you know it.
[quote=“flike”]Was that fair of the Bushies, what happened to Max Cleland? er, Was that fair of the Evil Bushies?
Because if we don’t, how do I know that the same thing that happened with Cleland isn’t happening now with Kerry?[/quote]
Its not at all the same thing.
The SBVFT have been dogging Kerry for 30 years. This has nothing to do with Bush.
Kerry says he’s a big war hero. He says that his military service qualifies him for the presidency.
Fine, if he is a war hero, I will respect him for that. But, if he isn’t, I want to know.
Now a group of vets is alleging that Kerry isn’t a war hero. They have lots of information and evidence that refutes (apparently) Kerry’s claims.
I’d like to know the truth. Is Kerry being smeared or is Kerry a liar?
I think the answer to this question is important, whether you support Kerry or Bush.
Kerry should release his military service records and clear this up once and for all.
There is nothing unfair about my demand that Kerry release his records. As an American citizen, I have a right to know.
[quote=“flike”]Was that fair of the Bushies, what happened to Max Cleland? er, Was that fair of the Evil Bushies?
Because if we don’t, how do I know that the same thing that happened with Cleland isn’t happening now with Kerry?[/quote]
Uh huh, sure.
Like I said, in order to measure Bushie sincerity in these matters, let’s begin with Max Cleland.
Were the charges Rove’s Bush made against Cleland fair?
Flike. I know little about the Cleland case.
However, for the sake of the argument in this thread, i am quite happy to stipulate that everything anyone, especially the republicans, ever said about max cleland that either impugned his character or questioned his record or was in any other way critical, was both unfair and evil.
Having made that stipulation, I now suggest that after democrats having insisted that Bush release his National guard records to try and clear up what appear to be false accusations against him, the republicans are entitled to ask kerry to do likewise.
Kerry is grandstanding about his military service. There were heroes in Vietnam. But there were also heroes who turned on, tuned in, and dropped out. The political strategy of the Democrats, and the Economist mentioned this in great detail last week, is to reposition themselves as the party of
Well, Chewy, I don’t know about all that. Must go back and read The E. I do think that the Dems thought they could use Kerry’s war record to demean Bush by comparison. They must be horrified at this book and at the thought of a prolonged argument over kerry’s record. It puts them on the defensive, makes him look less reliable, heroic.
I would have thought it would be in their own interest to release the records. If they can prove their point, it will make the Swift boat Veterans (and Bush by extension) look mean and petty.
High stakes all round, i would say.
I expect Bush knows all about the vets and their claims and if he didn’t think they had any credence, he would distance himself from them completely and renounce them. On the other hand, if Kerry had total confidence in his records, he would release them immediately, too.
Its all very intruiging. But something of a distraction from the real issues.
Nevertheless, it is no more a distraction that the Bush AWOL thing which many people latched onto with great zest. i don’t think the two should be treated any differently.
[quote=“imyourbiggestfan”]Well, Chewy, I don’t know about all that. Must go back and read The E. I do think that the Dems thought they could use Kerry’s war record to demean Bush by comparison. They must be horrified at this book and at the thought of a prolonged argument over Kerry’s record. It puts them on the defensive, makes him look less reliable, heroic.
I would have thought it would be in their own interest to release the records. If they can prove their point, it will make the Swift boat Veterans (and Bush by extension) look mean and petty.
High stakes all round, I would say.
I expect Bush knows all about the vets and their claims and if he didn’t think they had any credence, he would distance himself from them completely and renounce them. On the other hand, if Kerry had total confidence in his records, he would release them immediately, too.
Its all very intruiging. But something of a distraction from the real issues.
Nevertheless, it is no more a distraction that the Bush AWOL thing which many people latched onto with great zest. I don’t think the two should be treated any differently.[/quote]
Ta muchly.
I take your point about the ass-biting. This boat thing may be a part of that. Certainly, Dems current actions make it seem that they are worried about the same. We shall see.
Smear vet proven to be liar.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=696&e=2&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic
[quote]Thurlow’s records, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of Information Act, include references to “enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire” directed at all five boats in the flotilla that day. In his Bronze Star citation, Thurlow is praised for helping a damaged Swift boat “despite enemy bullets flying about him.”
Thurlow is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans who have aired a television advertisement attacking Kerry’s war record. [/quote]
Maybe we need to get everybody’s records.
[quote=“Richardm”]Smear vet proven to be liar.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=696&e=2&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic
[quote]Thurlow’s records, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of Information Act, include references to “enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire” directed at all five boats in the flotilla that day. In his Bronze Star citation, Thurlow is praised for helping a damaged Swift boat “despite enemy bullets flying about him.”
Thurlow is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans who have aired a television advertisement attacking Kerry’s war record. [/quote]
Maybe we need to get everybody’s records.
Absolutely. I’d support that. So long as Kerry’s record is included in the disclosure.
[quote=“Richardm”]Smear vet proven to be liar…
Maybe we need to get everybody’s records.
[/quote]
He certainly sounds bitter and twisted… and unreliable.
I agree that it would be best to see all records. I expect the Kerry campaign will do so or the Reps will back off. one or the other. perhaps they want to push this thing only so far as to smear, but don’t want to force the publication of the records, as that would potentially play into Kerry’shands.
All a lot of fun for the punters, at any rate.
I am currently applying for my own records and expect to release them publically as soon as I receive them.
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar … Aug18.html has picked up the story as well… yet another smearboater bites the dust.
Even if true (about the accuser), the only record that is important now is John “Rambo” Kerry’s record.
C’mon, John “Rambo” Kerry, release your record!