Jummping the Gun

Im jummping the gun on this one, but it’s nice to have some voices of reason to go to so that I can have PMA. Im looking for work, as a teacher, and have encountered a couple close doors due to my race.

Any suggestions, and ideas about how long I should gage the hiring process in Taipei, before I know something is truly afoul.?

Thanks for your voices!!! :bravo:

Maybe the doors were closed due to your low spelling ability, not your race. “Jummping”? :loco: Just teasing.
I have only met two African American men in Taiwan (I live in a small city) and both of them were working as English teachers. Keep trying and best of luck. :slight_smile:

Jumping

opps and you should see my blog!!!:noway:
but thanks funkymonkey

All the best. I’d hire you in a flash.

I think you should continue your job search.

What’s PMA?

POSTIVE MENTAL ATTITDUE
:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

I think you want to talk to ImaniOU, she had problems finding a job because of her race, but she found a wonderful job in the end.
She’s posted about it in here somewhere, maybe she can dig it out for you. (hint, Imani, hint)

Isn’t PMA Pathetic Men Annoyance ? :idunno:

PS. I moved this into Teaching in Taiwan, it being about finding a teaching job and all that.

How can I put this nicely? Probably not, so let me just give you a personal example.

I once employed a teacher, who happened to have a skin colour that one or two parents found difficult to deal with. I lost a couple of students. Other parents/students thought it was kind of cool and brought their friends. Ultimately I don’t think there’s a PR argument for not hiring a black person.

I didn’t employ the white lady who commented “You don’t see many of those here, do you?” when she saw him in the school. And I didn’t employ the lady that started telling me about how all her job changes were because people didn’t like her being black. I don’t want to hear about how hard life is out there for XYZ minority. I have problems of my own, and if I’m not contributing to your problem - I’m offering you the same job and salary as the next guy - then why are you telling me about it?

Speaking personally, I don’t care what colour your skin is but if you choose to make an issue of race then I don’t want you around. Why mention the fact that you are black if it isn’t important? I don’t sit around at interviews saying “People with short hair get better jobs than me.” It may be true, but it’s not relevant to the matter at hand so it’s unimportant.

The only reason it may be important is if your employer chooses to make an issue of it, in which case you don’t want to be there. If you include a photo with your applications then you will not have to waste time with the racists. I enclose a photo of long-haired me for the same reason. That’s all. If you start saying “blah blah blah, I’m black, blah blah blah” then people are going to think that you are someone with issues, someone that is not going to be easy to work with.

Then they won’t hire you, and you’ll walk out muttering about racism. Or you can leave race out of the discussion and maybe it won’t be considered (to paraphrase Bob Marley) more significant than the colour of your eyes. It’s not important to all employers. If they don’t make an issue of it then there’s no need for you to.

Thank you loretta (btw my moms name :slight_smile: ) for putting it so bluntly, but it’s a fact, not a nice fact in our worlds but ITS something that one must acknowledge and deal with, with a balanced attitude. I think from your lenthy statement that maybe it bugs you because you may have some ideas about others that are in the “politically correct” realm?
Knowing the ‘rules of engagement’ doesn’t necessarily make it so bad to know when you are dealing with something that isn’t truly familar. People who do international business do it all the time, it’s just informing yourself well enough so that you are able to understand reasons, (like racism usual is) that are not evident.
Congrats on you for having a fair and balanced view of the world. Yet, if you could have told me how in Taipei the tw approach the hiring process it would have been better.

Namahottie, you seem to find the whole situation of dealing with how the locals relate or react to you daunting because you are different racially. Admittedly, I was a little incensed by the comments you had written in your “Is it just me” post. After some further contemplation though, I can understand that you are just going through what many foreigners here feel initially, myself included - Alienation. Through time and experience, these anxiety issues have eased a little as I spend more time here.

I realise that the Taiwanese people are not totally prejudiced - A lot of their misconceptions and misinformation about other races stem from their lack of exposure to the world at large. If you look closely, maybe you will notice that the Taiwanese are not all well-travelled, most graduates are educated locally, and most work in local firms with little chance of becoming an expatriate elsewhere - Except maybe in China or other Asian cities.

I am saying all this not to belittle, but to put things in a more realistic perspective. Hope you would get out of this funk and try to be more positive. The locals are not all out to discriminate. Most of the time they are just as unsure as the foreigner on how they are perceived by other people too.

By the way, is it your chosen vocation to teach? If you aren’t too comfortable with the Buxiban and their idiosyncrasies, perhaps you could explore other avenues of work, such as journalism or broadcasting if it suits your personality.

All the best!

Bugsy

AFAIK, Nama has only been looking for work for 1 week, and at the absolute worst time of the year. After CNY, the situation will be much better.

I also want to say Loretta may be a lot of things, but I don’t see him as a racist.

Most of us are of non-Asian descent here. We’ve all suffered various problems due to our ethnicity and different cultural backgrounds. These issues are by no means the exclusive domain of African Americans. But the issues are real, I know, and they can be tough to deal with.

I agree the best thing is to have a more positive attitude.

I also think it may be wise to shelve some attitudes about race that one has brought over from America or other Western countries. The context here is 100% different. One of the best things about living in another country is the ability to get ‘beyond’ oneself, and that includes preconceptions and baggage from one’s background.

Living in another country is a shock to the system. The only way to begin to come to terms with the new situation and surroundings is by letting go of what we thought we knew about the way the world worked and how people should behave.

It’s too easy to blame ‘the system’ or ‘the culture’ for our problems. If you think you’ve got it all figured out already, and you blame all your problems on what you think are other people’s shortcomings or racist motives, then you’re going to have a fairly miserable time here. So would anyone, regardless of where they come from or what they look like.

Hang in there. You’re certain to find good work after CNY.

Some of you need to reread my orignal post. I never said that the taiwanese are racist or lament about racism here in Taiwan. Yet, I always find it very interesting when an African american brings up the anything surrounding race and it’s an immediate defensive come up. I find it very interesting also that when it comes to race, that I should really see it as something other than what it is. But when those who have problems with being called a foriegner, well that’s a legitamate issue that will have posts for days.
I don’t think Loretta is racist and never said nor implied he was. I think that their may be hot buttons for him when it comes to the race issue.

If you take the time to CLEARLY read my post, you will see that I said i have encountered a few closed doors due to my race and it was clearly told to me. Not making up cause I have something against “the man”. Althought I know that quietly and (sometimes loudly)some people roll their eyes, and say “here we go again Black people complaining about not getting anyway,blah blah blah”. Not being considered because of my race well It’s gonna happen ruth be told, [color=darkred]occationally,[/color]because some bushiban owners feel that they will lose money due to having something other than what’s comfortable for the parents.

What I asked for(now for the 3rdtime) was a different understand of the HIRING PRACTICES in Taiwan. I.E. what goes on, what they are looking for, etc.

Yes, i do have gripes against the TW like EVERY OTHER person has had, and talked about on THIS BOARD. I don’t relate my gripes against them due to my race, and well aware of how many of them haven’t travelled,etc. My last post of “is it me?” Was asking for another point of view on what I had. You may have not liked how I put it, but rather than degrade them, as western women have been degrade on this board so many times to make a point., i simply asked whether it was [color=darkred]me[/color] or xxxx. Not politically correct, but im not that anyway.

Should anyone like to tell me how Taipei is different, what things i should do or could do to make my resume jump to the top of the pile by doing xxx then by all means talk to me at Happy Hour or online. Let’s not solely focus on the fact that I happen to meantion race.

Jefferson-you hang in there too :bravo:
truant-thank you for you vote of confidence

and yes, if i could find work as a writer, I would take it in a hot alabama moment!!!

Highlight your teaching experience and your educational qualifications, as well as your plans to stay in Taiwan for many years. Also highlight the fact that you have Chinese language skills. Let the school know the books you’ve used and the ones you like.

Also, the resume here isn’t nearly as important as the conversation (it’s more of a conversation than an interview, really) that you have with the hirer. So, during the meeting, be friendly and positive. That’s the best you can do.

Again, keep in mind that this is the tail end of most semesters, and most companies prefer to hire people after Chinese New Year, not several weeks before the holiday.

If you can afford it, you might be best off laying low for a few weeks and then hitting the streets hard in mid February.

Thank you Jefferson. That was very good advice!!! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

I realize that being friendly is a good part of the interview as I do try make sure that I am. And I will try the other points you outlined…

To add to my retort about race: if it had been about having big tata’s as a contributing factor to losing out on a job, that would have been mentioned, but i don’t and so therefore that example was nil and nonexistant.

Thank you Jefferson. That was very good advice!!! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

I realize that being friendly is a good part of the interview as I do try make sure that I am. And I will try the other points you outlined…

To add to my retort about race: if it had been about having big tata’s as a contributing factor to losing out on a job, that would have been mentioned, but i don’t and so therefore that example was nil and nonexistant.
:laughing: :laughing:

If I was a owner of a school and you came in for a job, and you had big tata’s… I would hire you on the spot!!!
<-------------- :howyoudoin:

Of course I have my hot buttons, but not specifically about race.

I’m a white middle class British male, and a bit unconventional in many ways. This means that most people can find a reason to bitch about me if they want to. All women can of course use the ‘all men are bastards’ argument for starters, I’ve met Irishmen who want to hold me responsible for the potato famine, just as any citizen of any former British colony can go on about the sins of the past, anyone who thinks they had less advantages than me when they were young can easily be resentful, and sometimes I meet people of other racial groups who think that I see myself as superior - or that they are superior. And of course there’s all the stupid assumptions people make about me just because I have long hair, or won’t wear a tie, or teach English.

Stupid stereotyping, and I want no part of it. I hate labels.

Personally I believe that life is what you make it, and you start by taking responsibility for yourself. I have moved on from the circumstances of my birth, as have others. I just don’t accept that there is any reason why I shouldn’t live the way I choose, I don’t even think about what prejudices other people might have towards me. I just get on with it. Some people choose not to move forward, and most of them blame others because they haven’t made any progress.

A little while back one of our village idiots talked about how difficult it was for him to go back to his roots. He’s moved on to ‘better’ things, and is no longer content with the limitations of the life he left behind. I applaud that, because some of us have done similarly.

The response from Namahottie was that he was being judgemental, and blah blah blah white people get better jobs, and blah blah blah an educated black man who dated chinese girls and had to be challenged on that. Race, race, race, class stereotypes, race, defensiveness, and race. In my book it’s all bullshit, excuses whereby people hide behind convenient disadvantages imposed on them by others.

I am not a victim. Namahottie is not a victim. I don’t believe in victims. If you choose to be held back by who your parents were or where you were born then that’s your problem, not mine or anyone else’s. If you choose to see yourself as an iindividual who is making their life the way they want it, then more power to you.

Along the way you will encounter stupidity. (I’m sure I’ve commented here about stupidity in the past.) Some people have beliefs that don’t stand up to rational analysis. Whether its racial superiority, the importance of taking lots of tests, or the pope’s “every sperm is sacred” thing, it’s all stupid. We have a responsibility to ourselves to resist stupidity, which is why I preferred to lose a student or two rather than fire a black teacher. But we also have to make sure that we don’t let the stupidity become the dominant factor in our lives.

To answer your initial question: some bosses will have irrational prejudices and you’ll go mad if you waste your time worrying about it. Lots of bosses don’t have those prejudices. Some may even have the reverse opinion, and actually want to have a black person on the staff just to be different. It’s all marketing, and you don’t know what they want until you apply. Try working in sales some time, it’s just a numbers game. You ask enough people and maintain a positive attitude, and eventually you’ll make a sale.

Just present yourself as you are - send a photo with your app - and don’t even think about the colour of your skin because it’s not important. If someone wants to bring the subject up then you have a reason to talk about it - maybe by trying to educate someone who doesn’t know any better, maybe by losing your cool completely with someone who should know better. There’s a time and a place for everything, but don’t go through life looking for it.

Disclaimer: There are some circumstances of birth that are inescapable, such as being a native speaker of English. Another is having had access to a decent education, compared to someone from - random example - Zimbabwe. I grew up in a country with a stable government and rule of law, unlike the people of - another random example - Somalia. As a kid I could read about Idi Amin, but didn’t have to suffer under his rule. The same is also true for the other users of this site. Why not focus on the advantages you were born with, instead of identifying yourself as ‘black’ and placing yourself in the same category as the Somalis, Zimbabweans, etc.? It’s a question of choosing the identity that encourages a positive mental attitude.

OK, I know it’s trite but…
Maybe if you changed your name from namahottie, to GRAMMARhottie, people would take you seriously.
Forget your colour, sex, height, age, weight etc. Go and PROVE that you can provide a valuable service to your customers (The school, the parents and the kids) and they will want to hire you.
Simple pimple.

  1. Tidy up your c.v.
  2. Write English gooder!
  3. Surround yourself in a layer of positive energy.
  4. Go get 'em tiger.

Loretta,

When you have a couple of encounters where people tell you that "our parents will or may not be happy because you are black’ what am I suppose to think? If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck- well goddamm its a duck.

I wasn’t trying to make this a racial issue. You and several white males made it one with your lenghty defensive positions on the topic. I shared what closed the door and also asked at the bottom of my post HOW LONG should I wait before thinking things are a foul.

Loretta are you suggesting that I am not being responsible for my life because i meantioned race? Nope. I don’t get into that pity party but i don’t lie to myself either, telling myself that it’s not a part of the factors of life. I wouldn’t be here in Taiwan if that was firm belief.

And what made you think that I go thru life looking for it? Here in your arguement is where I think that white attitudes on blacks and racism come into play. I know it’s there, but you still can’t see the tree from the forest can ya? I wanted other opinons so that i could have a wider understanding. But the mintue you read race, seems like everything afterward was a blur. Good for you that you would rather lose a student or two than fire a black teacher. You get the white man of the month award.

[quote]A little while back one of our village idiots talked about how difficult it was for him to go back to his roots. He’s moved on to ‘better’ things, and is no longer content with the limitations of the life he left behind. I applaud that, because some of us have done similarly.

The response from Namahottie was that he was being judgemental, and blah blah blah white people get better jobs, and blah blah blah an educated black man who dated Chinese girls and had to be challenged on that. Race, race, race, class stereotypes, race, defensiveness, and race. In my book it’s all bullshit, excuses whereby people hide behind convenient disadvantages imposed on them by others. [/quote] rantheman was being judgemental of his family and I shared some experiences that made me wonder and other points of views. People are always welcomed to share with me the other side of the coin so that I can see it better.

Loretta i have no idea where you are making your assumptions based on. Maybe you should listen to the current person talking rather than based on your past expriences with this.