I agree. It’s really a problem for short term visitors. But if you live long term and have a map and learn the bus numbers…it’s not too bad. And I think they are starting to use GPS so that you can use your cellphone to know within a few minutes when the bus is due.
After a year in Taipei I’ve decided to return to Kaohsiung.
Taipei was ok when both my wife and I were working, but with a new son and only me working, we just can’t afford to stay. Higher pay and half the rent has convinced us to return to K-town.
I’ll miss the bookstores, sidewalks, Mo-relax coffee, the Diner and Sababa.
I won’t miss the constant rain, riding the bus, paying $180 for a beer, slipping on wet tiles and moldy walls.
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Kaohsiung without a scooter is not easy… Taxis are useless, too, if you don’t speak enough Chinese to say street names… I have had to find someone who can speak English to help me more than once already. :help:
Kaohsiung! That’s my city!
I agree with others here: much, much nicer climate. Cleaner. Sea and beach nearby. Much nicer city to see, too. And yes… Love River. Hahaha. Taipei really lacks places that have a freeing, relaxing atmosphere. Kaohsiung has it!
Anyone who comes to Taiwan should compare at least these cities before deciding to settle.
Foreigners are more rare in Kaohsiung though. Speaking Chinese is much more a must I think. A scooter too (but MRT is coming).
(1) Tpe has Burger King and KHH does not.
(2) Tpe has more Starbucks and McD and KHH, you’d be lucky if you find a Sbucks.
(3) Tpe has great public transportation. KHH, no scooter, no go.
(4) Tpe has various choices for foreign food. KHH only has a handfull.
(5) Tpe has Page One. KHH has limited places for interesting English Books (for reading, not teaching)
(6) Tpe airfare to overseas is cheaper by 2000nt. Outgoing from KHH is 2000nt more.
(7) Tpe has happening nightlife. KHH has only McD that’s open 24 hours, ok and a few more, i’m being sarcastic.
(8) Tpe has people who are snotty (my preference). KHH has ppl who ask thousands of Questions about your personal life.
But KHH is great cause the food is cheap and somewhat delicious (if you’re into Taiwanese delicacies). KHH is also good for working without too much pressure or expectations. But it does get very boring and not having much variety in Supermarkets (no Dean and Deluca or Breeze Center) it’s difficult to “feel at home.”
And no freakin Prada. All my clothes and brand of preference is Prada and I’m really not into Burberry or any other brands. I’ve never bought Ralph Lauren, Hilfiger, or any other brands and I really can’t wear Giodano or Hang Ten.
But I have to say Taichung is a great combo of Tpe and KHH.
No frickin Prada??? OMG LIfe sure is a beach in Kaohsiung then !! 
Of course not owning anything PRADA I really cant feel the pain 
MaYBE if you go to the nightmarket you can find PRADO?
All kidding aside I agree with your observations.
I actually find it surprising that so many people are pro-Kaohsiung, I really expected to hear a Taipei superiority thing come up. Personally, I think Taipei is a great place to go and hang out for the weekend, hit up the bars, and have a good time in the markets, but K-Town is a great place to live.
IMHO:
- The rent is cheap, and there are some beautiful apartments around the city. Here’s the view I get for $10,000/mth (shared with my gf)
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Cheap, good, and varied restaurants & many different (local & ex-pat) bars to experience (especially ones like Escape 41 which is in a beautiful location!)
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Proximity to weekend getaways & beaches such as University Beach, CiSian Island Beach, Kenting, Maolin, FoGuanShan, Monkey Mountain, and even Tainan.
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The beautifully warm weather, and not nearly as much rain as in Taipei.
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Coffee shops & Tea Stands galore. Within 3 blocks of my school there are probably 2-3 Starbucks, 2 Crown Coffee Shops, a few 85 Cafe’s and probably like 10 tea stands.
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A great ex-pat community. I feel like every day I see a foreigner I’ve never seen before. Most of the people I’ve met here are friendly, outgoing, laid-back, and good people to hang with.
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The local people (from what I’ve seen) are friendly, and of course inquisitive. My experience has been mainly little kids, and the standard “Waiguoren!” or “Meiguoren!”, which I always like to correct “Wo boo Meiguoren. Wo shi Janadaren!” which usually gets a polite smile (or laugh) from the parents.
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I don’t agree that the taxis are useless here either. Even with limited Chinese I have not once been in a taxi that didn’t understand where I wanted to go, or hasn’t been able to get me close enough that I could just give directions to the destination.
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Granted, if you’re not willing to get on a scooter, you’ll have a rough time getting around as the buses are quite difficult to use, and unless you’re in the city you’ll be walking for hours. The MRT will help somewhat, but the first line (Feb 08) is a north-south line that runs mainly within the city anyways, so it will help a bit, but the full functionality won’t be reached for a few years yet.
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The pollution is pretty rough at times. Days when I look out at that beautiful view, and can’t even see to the other side of the lake are pretty bad. I’ve been wearing my pollution mask every day since about September now, and the pollution hangs around until about February, when it lightens up somewhat.
Of course, everyone has their own opinions, and this is just my experience. It’s nice to see that there are a lot more folks out there that consider the “dirty south” a nice place to live, than I had thought.
Ganbei! :moped:
great review Big Wally !!
I grew up in TAipei , but I can see the beauty of living in K town for sure ! I think they will fix the air pollution like they did in Taipei in a few years. Plus like you said come up to TAipei for a weekend and the HSR makes coming up to TAipei a real workable and fun deal. Granted you have to fork over for the price of the tickets tho.
Thanks…
And have you heard of the new battle going on between the HSR and one of the regional airlines? Apparently there is now a flight offered from Kaohsiung to Taipei for $1000NT!!! My friend who is a long time resident told me about this. Apparently, the HSR was stealing so much business with their $1400NT tickets, that the airlines decided to go with $1000NT for a 1hr flight.
Personally, I still like sitting on the HSR watching the landscape fly by at 300km/h.
the TAipei to / from K town flights were the bread winners for the Taiwanese domestic airlines. The HSR reallly puts a HUGE dent into this. Why put up with the security checks and other hassles to fly for 45 mins when the HSR can do it in 90 mins midtown to midtown ? Plus flying is much more stressful then taking a train.
but 1000nt each way? I think that will get back some passengers.
Luckily TransAsia, Far Eastern , Mandarin and UNI all have scheduled international flights now. Otherwise the HSR will ensure that they go bottoms up.
Domestic is still viable only where the HSR isnt. The HSR has stopped TAichung to TAipei flights as well as K town to Taichung flights.
I know that I would rather HSR to and from Ktown and Taipei rather then fly. I would rather pay 1400 then 1000 on the plane. But a roundtrip makes a 800nt difference, so economics can come to play here. Just think for the price difference you could have a meal and a few drinks at Carnegies if you took the plane? I never been to Carnegies (not sure if I even spelt it right) but it seems to be the place to be on this forum.
I’ve been living in Taipei coming up on a year now, but I lived in Kaohsiung last year for one year. And recently I made a brief trip back to Kaohsiung and here’s my perspective.
Western conveniences-I have no clue why people say Taipei has all the west restaurants and department stores,etc. Kaohsiung has all of that and in fact I would say, and others agree, the western food is better in kaohsiung than taipei. Additionally, there are a few carrefours and a costco in KHH. Moreover, with the traffic and overall busy-ness of Taipei it’s a rather difficult task to get a good burger. Whereas in KHH I’d jump on my scooter and five-ten minutes later, I got a burger.
People-Foreign crowd is, in general, a lot better in Kaohsiung than Taipei. However, if you’re looking for the flashy people, (or at least wannabe flashy people) then Taipei is your place. I find the foreign crowd a lot more friendly, open, laid back and more stable in Kaohsiung. Of course this is a generalization since there are good folks in taipei. Local wise people are nicer down in Kaohsiung, but a lot of them do treat you like an english teaching machine, and a big reason I came to kaohsiung was to improve my chinese. The unwillingness of many locals in kaohsiung to help me with improving my chinese really turned me off from them. Taipei, locals are a bit cold, but I am surprised about willing and energetic they are at helping me with chinese-so it’s a big plus for me in my book.(Foreigners in taipei speak much more chinese than ones in kaohsiung—when I was in kaohsiung I was considered by some fellow waiguo’s to be the guy who speaks chinese yet in taipei i’m like a beginner in comparison to fellow waiguos here)
Prices-Kaohsiung is of course way cheaper. Taipei can be ridiculously expensive.
Nightlife(clubs/bars)-I like Kaohsiung better just because the people are more laid back, less of a flashy, be ‘cool’ type atmosphere. Taipei though is still fun nightwise and the nightmarkets are much better in Taipei than Kao.
Pollution–Taipei wins hands down. Kaohsiung is by far one of the dirtiest, most polluted cities I’ve ever been to IMO (I have been all over mainland china as well as thailand including bangkok). I mean you can’t even see blue skys some days since the sky I just covered in yellow puke colored smog.
Overall, what keeps me in Taipei, and not KHH, is the Chinese and pollution…Other than that I’d be out of Taipei faster than a guy needing to pee after drinking 30 cups of americano coffee from 85 cafe.
[quote=“James651”]
Pollution–Taipei wins hands down. Kaohsiung is by far one of the dirtiest, most polluted cities I’ve ever been to IMO [/quot]
Unless you watch the PSI in the newspaper. I noticed that all summer long Taipei had the highest PSI in all of Taiwan for about 2 months.
Now that the season is changing Kaohsiung is back at the top.
Well the rain seems to wash the pollution away I guess…Forgot-weather in Taipei is crap and kaohsiung’s weather is great!
[quote=“tommy525”]great review Big Wally !!
I grew up in Taipei , but I can see the beauty of living in K town for sure ! I think they will fix the air pollution like they did in Taipei in a few years. Plus like you said come up to Taipei for a weekend and the HSR makes coming up to Taipei a real workable and fun deal. Granted you have to fork over for the price of the tickets tho.[/quote]
The air pollution is fixed, what city are you talking about? I’d guess that the air pollution level in Taipei has possibly increased or at least it has in South Taipei and Taipei County! Even if it has decreased it’s still really terrible here…
Not to be a complete A%$E about things but both cities require huge improvements. Taipei and especially it’s hinterland Taipei County are extremely polluted both air, land and waterways (especially the rivers). The development of most of Taipei County is still 10 years behind the city at least and the city is still full of millions of scooters. Taipei City and County need to be integrated a proper municipal plan to be put in place and dare I say it scooters to be banned from the city of Taipei proper. The sad thing about Taipei is that it has numerous major rivers running through it which are basically sewers, if they were managed properly it could turn Taipei into something more first rate, of course the local citizens don’t know what a clean river and are too worried about their economic situations to care it seems.
I didn’t like the shouts foreigners get in KH, which mercifully are rarer and rarer in Taipei. To me they indicate a lack of civility.
What’s great about both cities is what’s around them rather than what’s in them…
[quote=“ab12ra12”][quote=“James651”]
Pollution–Taipei wins hands down. Kaohsiung is by far one of the dirtiest, most polluted cities I’ve ever been to IMO [/quot]
Unless you watch the PSI in the newspaper. I noticed that all summer long Taipei had the highest PSI in all of Taiwan for about 2 months.
Now that the season is changing Kaohsiung is back at the top.[/quote][/quote]
This is true only in a limited sense. You were probably checkign readings in the daytime which gives you a false impression of Taipei. Because we are in a basin we get high pressure buildups every day in summer which trap pollutants and CO2 until the mid-afternoon downpour. Most evenings are durng the night and morning the air is fine.
In addition, ozone levels increase in summer but these also peak around noon, only to breakup later in the day.
Finally there is the matter of what is causing pollution. In taipei it is 95% vehicle exhaust. Therefore, unless an inversion is happening, if you are away from traffic the air is fine. Since the psi ratings don’t record the suburbs, it gives a false impression.
In Kaohsiung much of the air pollution is caused by industry and so is pervasive. It’s why you get air pollution on the beach many days. So, your pollution is affecting you daily whereas here in Taipei it affects us only part of the day and mostly in crowded areas.
According to the EPA, Kaohsiung’s air quality has improved 50% in the past 5 years. That seems subjectivty true. In another 10 years Kaohsiung will be Taiwan’s most liveable city. The potential is there and it is being developed. Go Kaohsiung
Taipei air gets better overall every year (and is now comparable most days to big cities like New York and London) but we are affected by China shit. Our ozone levels are increasing in summer (though as I said this usually only affects us part of the day) because of pollutants from China. Spring air is often drab because the winds blow from the west.
headhonchoII, you are right both cities need improvements but they are being done. Work has been going on in the rivers for years. Our new mayor has promised to clean the rivers by 2011, which is not an idle promise as he wants to develop them as you say. While normally one does not think of development as helping the environment but here it will. Those will be nice expensive apartments along the waterfront and people won’t want to live by sewers.
There are a thousands different things happening these days to improve Taiwan, but it will be another 5-10 years before there’s enough results for the tipping point to be reached in people’s perception and attitudes.
[quote=“Muzha Man”]
There are a thousands different things happening these days to improve Taiwan, but it will be another 5-10 years before there’s enough results for the tipping point to be reached in people’s perception and attitudes.[/quote]
Right about the time that China takes over!
This topic seems dead for a while now. I would like to hear some fresh opinions from nowadays. Which one you guys prefer?
What are you looking for?
About to move to either one, or considering the other?
There are many threads on these 2 cities on this forum.
I prefer K over T for weather and for attitude toward life.
I manage in Kaohsiung quite easily with the MRT and bus system. There are some places that are hard to get, but most of the main areas are accessible. Maybe 2007 was a different time. I am totally scooter averse since I’m convinced that would either end with me in a wheelchair or a casket (call me a wimp if you want, but I watch the nightly news CCTV crash-o-ramas with bodies flying every which way) and I can’t afford a car right now. So I’m totally reliant on public transport, and it’s fine down here.
As for the greater question of Kaohsiung vs Taipei… I’ve only lived in Kaohsiung, so maybe if I had lived in Taipei I wouldn’t hold it up on a pedestal. What I’ll say is whenever I visit Taipei and then have to go back home to Kaohsiung I get a little depressed. The quality and variety of restaurants is better in Taipei, the activities I can do are better, the sights I can see, the museums, the shopping, the night-markets, even the sidewalks are better (and that last one is no joke… I literally have to walk in the middle of the street around my home). Taipei seems more like a city you’d find in Japan or Korea, while Kaohsiung is still not quite there development wise. Plus, the heat is fucking unbearable in June-August. I know Taipei’s weather is no picnic, but I have to take 3 showers a day here in the dog days of July. As for people being friendlier in Kaohsiung? I don’t know. I grew up in New York, so assholes on the street never bother me that much. What’s important is the people you interact with every day, and no matter where you live you can choose your friends (maybe not your co-workers, but c’est la vie), so it doesn’t matter that much.
tl;dr version: Kaohsiung is pretty easy to get around using public transport nowadays, but I still prefer Taipei.
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Kaohsiung: PM2.5 and Tongyong Pinyin…