I lived in Taiwan up to two years ago and I had my healthcard etc. I am now comig back for a few weeks for a visit. I have a kidney stone about 8mm in size and I most likely need sound shockwave treatment to break up the stone - lithotripsy I think they call it. Has anyone ever had this treatment in Taiwan or knows anyone who had it? I am specially concerened about the cost. Will it be expensive without a healthcard? Cheers.
A friend had a kidney stone a couple of years ago. He had no health insurance at the time.
He had to go to emergency at NTU. Had to do an ultrasound and was on pain killers and medication to help it pass. It did pass after a couple of months I recall.
On follow up visits he had medicine and another ultrasound.
Maybe around 10K in all.
The only way you would find out, is to go to see a doctor. You could at least take the medication. It could help.
Honestly, if you’re doing “medical tourism,” Taiwan wouldn’t be my first choice. I’d suggest Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok:
bumrungrad.com/thailandhospital
I was a patient at this hospital once, and it’s world-class. It’s geared towards foreign patients. And costs less than you’d pay in Taiwan.
The treatment you are talking about is called “shockwave lithotripsy”, and they do offer it according to this page:
I had a kidney-stone episode past March here… Walked into emergency of Chung Shan Hospital, X-Ray and 2 hours later on the table for ultra-sound “shock wave” treatment. All very smooth, professional staff. That ultrasound treatment did really feel good and the pain was blown away immediately.
Had no insurance at that time and if I remember right I had to pay TWD 30k in cash. But it’s worth it - believe you me 
PM me if you like to know more and/or if you have more questions…
Yes, that is largely true. Unfortunately I have seen horrible things related to medical care here in Taiwan and Thailand is well known for very good standards. But if you are already based in Taiwan and in major pain due to kidney stones, boarding a plane would be the last thing in my mind. As for my “kidney stone experience” here, all went extremely well - a bit to my surprise though 
That has to be the most insane thing ever. commit to a flight with a kidney stone.
I would start pounding lemonade and hope the myth of lemons helping kidney stones is true.
A bottle of rum would probably do a better job in that case
Following. I had mild kidney problems which I 70 percent cured with Chancapiedra. “Marblegrass” in Mandarin. One of the best herbs I ever came across.
I am mistrustful of pharmacology, but I think ultrasound shock wave therapy sounds amazing. If you could tell us any more about your story, Parcival, I’d be interested.
How long did it last, do you know what frequencies they used, the brand of the machine. What did it feel like etc.
kidney.org/atoz/content/kid … _ShockWave
Many diseases can be caused by crystal/stone/calcium/oxalate buildup, so I wonder if ultrasound has wider applications than we currently believe.
Thanks for sharing really, this sounds interesting and I’ll have a look. Yeah I also believe it’s a good thing not to trust conventional medicine / pharmacology - for many reasons. Personally I would only consult medical help in extreme situations. My kidney stone episode was extreme simply because of the level of pain. Here a quick summary:
It started one late evening with light cramp-like pressure that felt like some bowel problem - like having too many chilies During the night it was okay but early next morning it quickly turned very nasty with extreme cramp-like pain the lower abdomen. I never experienced pain like this before, I though I’ll give birth soon.
My wife then brought me to that mentioned hospital, in the ER a doctor said after 5 minutes: kidney stone. I rejected all pain killers because I feel it is more scary to “mask” the pain. The doc then said in order to accurately destroy the stone via ultra sound they first need an X-ray as basis. Done that and shortly after they brought me to that magic ultra sound machine. Small room with a table that had these gelly-coated ultrasound emitters attached. Another X-ray scanner above produced a life-image. The emitters were then adjusted to softly press against my lower side. Doc and technician in a small control room behind a window.
Apparently the art is to adjust the pressure waves correctly so it breaks the stone slowly into bits. It took around 10 minutes to adjust this thing and then they started shooting the waves first at around 1Hz, later a bit higher. Each shot was audible with a loud “bang”… this thing went on for approximately 25 minutes.
How did it feel…? I felt it was really relaxing. Partially because the repetitive “knock” of the machine and also because it felt like somebody is “scratching an itch” from inside. Very releaving and warm. After that the pain was simply gone and never returned. Around 6 weeks later a very tiny fracture of the stone came out painless.
So my conclusion here is that it really depends on the skills of the technician / doc as to how to adjust this machine (position of emitters, amplitude and frequency of the wave). I have no details on the equipment they used but it did not look new and fancy. Another factor of course is size and location of a kidney stone. In some cases ultra sound does not work so I heard.
So folks, don’t let this happen at the first place: drink much fluids (beer also counts) and stay healthy.
Thanks for that write up, Parcival, that is very interesting. Apparently this treatment can be quite painful, but you seemed to have survived it no hassle. I think you are right about skill levels from the technician. I would bet they are much better than the world average in Taipei.
They started shooting at One hertz? Ultra low inaudible ELF. Wow.
I think we’ll enter a Jetsons age of medicine and ultrasound will be far more widely used in 10-20 years. They will probably find a way to make it less painful, too.
Yes, fluids are important, but even Vit C can cause stones. So can oxalates.
Cheers.
[quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks for that write up, Parcival, that is very interesting. Apparently this treatment can be quite painful, but you seemed to have survived it no hassle. I think you are right about skill levels from the technician. I would bet they are much better than the world average in Taipei.
They started shooting at One hertz? Ultra low inaudible ELF. Wow.
I think we’ll enter a Jetsons age of medicine and ultrasound will be far more widely used in 10-20 years. They will probably find a way to make it less painful, too.
Yes, fluids are important, but even Vit C can cause stones. So can oxalates.
Cheers.[/quote]
Thanks HenHaoChi Yes, possible that I was just lucky that the right staff was on duty. I have seen 1st hand to what extend medical malpractice goes in Taiwan but also in other countries. That’s why - if I have a choice - I would never seek a (conventional) doctor’s advice. But that is a different can of worms 
Fact is that I was in such pain that I did not care about medical standards… I would have even be happy with a veterinarian if no other choice.
About the 1Hz: I think they were shooting bursts of ultra sound (=frequencies > 20kHz) in intervals of 1 second (on/off).
And about the future of health care: I’m rather pessimistic here. No doubt there have been great advancements but also many holdups and defects due to politics and economics. If something can’t be monetized it will not be available. The global pharmaceutical industry size is around USD 980b and growing fast. Needless to say that these corporations have no intention to reduce their profits and also needless to say that healthy people do not contribute to that number - go figure.
As I mentioned in another thread: more than 100’000 people die in US hospitals alone due to “properly described” drugs (Journal of the American Medial Association). Worse: the National Council for Patient Information and Education reported that an additional 125,000 deaths occur annually due to adverse reactions to drugs that the physician never should have prescribed.
Now… don’t get me wrong: I’m glad someone had the skills and the means to fix my kidney stone issue. And I will be equally happy if somebody stitches me back together if a bus runs over me. But one should be really extra-careful when and how to deal with the conventional medical system because doctors do not always make things better.