Hi everyone,
Happy New Year to you all.
Does anyone know if there’s any international kindergarten/ pre school for kids for foreigners in XinJuang/Banciao areas?
It’s still early as we’re expecting our baby to come in Feb, but I’d like to make some initial inquiries.
Why international?
Our girl goes to a perfectly ordinary, local kindergarten a block from our house and we’re extremely happy with it: playing, learning to socialize and interact, english, chinese, painting, drawing, clay, music, gymnastics, yoga, field trips to parks, museums, etc., lunch, nap time, snack, followed by a school bus to our nanny’s house. I can’t imagine how an international school could be better.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Why international?
Our girl goes to a perfectly ordinary, local kindergarten a block from our house and we’re extremely happy with it: playing, learning to socialize and interact, english, chinese, painting, drawing, clay, music, gymnastics, yoga, field trips to parks, museums, etc., lunch, nap time, snack, followed by a school bus to our nanny’s house. I can’t imagine how an international school could be better.[/quote]
Well it would cost a lot more, that’s for sure.
MT’s right. The main thing is to find a well-maintained kindergarten that is close to one’s abode. All the rest is merely expensive ornamentation.
Are you sure exposure to English is the same?
At the schools that i work English is taught every day but I wouldn’t vouch for them. Chinese teachers at my school hardly speak English and if they do, I wouldn’t like my baby to pick up their accent or pronunciation.
I’ve seen the kindergarten programme at TES. It’s excellent. I say different strokes for different folks.
Exposure to English?
If you want that, move to an English speaking country.
Or pay far more than one should.
I send my kids to local schools precisely because I want them to have genuine exposure to the local populace.
I worked for about a year in a ‘nice’, fairly expensive ‘bilingual’ Taiwanese kindy just of MinQuan East road. There were definite pros and cons to the place, even though the staff were mostly wonderful and committed.
The good stuff
Small class sizes, lots of attention for each kid
great facilities and materials, toys, art, music, etc.
Overcrowded yet pleasant, fun, stimulating environment with lots of day trips, park visits, etc
Genuine commitment to the children, low student turnover
Kids learn to socialise
No stupid ‘end of term shows’ and rubbish like that
The bad stuff
It really depends on the kid. A fake bilingual environment can be incredibly stressful for some kids at some stages of development. Every parent thinks this does not apply to their kid because their kid is well adjusted and smart. Some kids become withdrawn and fearful when placed in this kind of environment. You may think it helps them become ambiguity tolerant but for some kids, having to deal with everything in a foreign language is the social equivalent of throwing them in the lake to teach them to swim.
A lot of competition between kindergartens nearby; lots of tit for tat reports to the foreigner police. Kids lost their English input because the foreign teachers spent half their time in Starbucks, dodging raids. Places like TES are able to hire native speaking English teachers a lot easier and legally. If a small local kindy has native speakers they are probably illegal and unqualified and so not really a ‘positive’ in your child’s life. Constant police harrassment and dodgy ethics about doing business (if your place is ‘successful’, they are more at risk of that type of rubbish) aren’t good for the kids. Clue; the kindergarten will not make you aware of this before choosing.
‘International’ simply meant ‘lots of English class’ and chocolate muffins for breakfast on Fridays.
Unqualified teachers; the kids were taught largely by ‘assistants’, while the qualified teachers lorded it in the office ‘creating materials’. The foreign teachers were all unqualified. I was the most qualified, with adult teaching credentials and a degree in linguistics, but still wouldn’t have been allowed to teach kindy in my own country. Foreign teachers’ contracts were often up in the middle of a semester and so left, the youngish assistants often left when other jobs came up.
Taiwanese staff spoke very bad English, English speaking staff spoke very bad Chinese; poor modelling for the kids and little integration in the program. Taiwanese people who speak fluent English tend not to work as classroom kindy teachers.
A deeply flawed ‘younger is better’ ethos, for Chinese, English and maths which is contradicted by the majority of modern research. The result for English learning is fossilized errors with a grammar taken entirely from L1 and retardation in L1 development.
Little knowledge or awareness of health and safety procedures regarding buses, infectious diseases, etc.
Anyway, a long ramble of personal impressions which may or may not give you an insight into one kind of kindy there.
Hey Buttercup,
a real eye opener. Looks like there were more cons than pros. Moving to an English speaking country seems the only choice here.
but on a more serious note.
I don’t know if it’s only my perception of education in Taiwan, or is it a shared opinion, but schools here definitely lack many things, constructive thinking and such to begin with. All I care about now, is that the school for my kid is safe and clean. From what people tell me, and from my own observations any inquisitiveness is squashed in little kids in Taiwan as it’s uncomfortable for teachers/ educators. Even if I find a good kindergarten at an early stage, sooner or later, when our kid goes on to an elementary all this reasoning and curiosity will be fiercely fought with and punished. It’s a take it or leave it thing. You don’t like the heat, get out of the kitchen. There’s an American family living in the same compound as me, and their son gets home schooling. so far I viewed it as something odd but having seen what happens at Taiwanese schools, I am slowly leaning towards that approach.
I know most ( excuse me if I’m mistaken) English teachers treat Taiwan as a battlefield or an adventure to relate to their friends and family and they appear and vanish as they wish, without any teaching background or a grain of experience. Still they have a western approach and I’d like my kid to be exposed to it too. It’s a lost fight trying to instill western customs/ behaviours on one’s own because all our kid will see is Chinese culture and that’s why I just want him to ensure there’s more foreigners around him.
Elementary schools here aren’t bad - in fact they’re pretty good. It’s junior high and high school that extinguishes the spark of intellectual curiosity and learning. I wouldn’t worry too much about your kids education here until they’re approaching their teen years. Then you’re going to need a plan.
Hi,
I do need a plan and a plan I can relate to even now. If I postpone it for too long, one day I may find myself in deep cr… and no way out. I hate the idea of leaving Taiwan when our kid reaches teenage years because it’s an important phase in his life and any changes may affect him beyond our understanding. Definitely, changing schools puts a lot of stress and pressure on the poor thing, imagine changing a country. New friends, new language barriers, new experiences. I don’t want him withdrawn and suffering.
If we are to move, we have to move when he’s still an infant.
Coming back to the topic though, there are many other mixed race families here and they seem to be doing ok. Some bitterness does shine through when they tell stories of long hours at school/ anchin ban/ bags of homework, especially before weekends and holidays. That’s another thing that beats me. In continental Europe you’re not allowed to give any homework for holidays. It’s time for the kid to be with their family, time to wind down, meet peers etc. Here, on the contrary, an excellent opportunity to get engrossed in books. This part I wouldn’t even mind, as I myself enjoy a good read and creative thinking, but the idea of copying the same character, line for line, just gets my goat. How can people become great achievers if they just imitate others?
Buttercup’s comments are essentially correct, though a bit judgemental and placing a little too much emphasis on ‘qualifications’.
I most strenuously disagree with this statement. Why would one expect an external system to instill a western mode of thought? By adopting this attitude, one gives up the struggle even before it’s even begun. The onus is on the parents, always.
Not sure I understand your obsession with the foreigner input. Surely you yourself will provide 90% of that input? And other foreign friends? As for becoming overly exposed to the local version of Chinese culture, what’s wrong with that!?
I’m glad beyond belief that my kids are growing up exposed to Chinese. I want them fluidly fluent by the time of the great exodus back to the motherland.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but is not one perhaps thinking rather too much ahead of the game here?
As I understand it, one’s child is not yet born?
Children learn best when they are given room to think for themselves. Before they are sucked in the grand chasm of the system. Which starts when they go to school. The parents have to engage their younglings, and not the other way around.
Children engage on instinct, it comes naturally. Children are great teachers, once they know the score.
Sponges that they are!
My own have taught me that it pays not to box them in too much.
Most especially at an early age, and most especially with expectations.
Not judgemental at all and as I said in my post, I did it for nearly a year. I loved the kids a lot and worked really hard for 'em, as did the local staff. We generally made sure the kids were happy. But wouldn’t you want more than good natured amateurism? Don’t your kids deserve professional teaching? I’m really not saying kindergarten teachers are ‘bad’ but if given the choice, wouldn’t you go for somewhere where the teachers had committed to studying teaching rather than a lot of 20somethings on a year long jaunt? (That goes for many of the local staff too)
I don’t think I was ever a downright negative influence on a child, but I’m not trained to deal with kids with learning difficulties, medical emergencies (I certainly didn’t know how to call an ambulance, for example and I learned how to deal with an epileptic seizure ‘on the job’.). Not sure how insurance worked for the children because I wasn’t legally supposed to be there. Presumably there was some fiddle going on.
There were still significant problems with the language programs; they were the usual crap of the furriner laoban sitting down with the Caves catalogue and whacking out a sooper dooper table in Word. ‘Week 1 = Chapter 1 Week 2 = Chapter 2’ as is the amateur EFL way.
Cramschool is different; it doesn’t matter hugely that that’s poorly thought out and of bad quality because it’s only for a few hours a week and the positive often outweighs the negative. I did a few kids classes throughout my time in Taiwan and although they are pretty much pointless for young kids, and are basically a money making exercise, they may be enjoyable and the kid may retain an interest in language learning. Kindy with a few furriners hrown in is not going to result in much language acquisition; the best you can hope for is that the sociable, intelligent ones will start to produce some kind of pidgin to get their daily needs met.
English kindy and unqualified foreigners teaching kindy isn’t illegal simply because it spoils our fun, y’know.
As someone says though, the government elementary schools seem pretty good.
Actually, I shouldn’t have even mentioned English concerning our daughter’s school, as that’s just a useless class once a week taught by a local whose English skills are undoubtedly worse than my daughter’s. But she doesn’t need English instruction. I know the OP’s child isn’t born yet, so I understand why he doesn’t realize this yet, but so long as he speaks and reads with his child regularly in English (I understand that’s the OP’s native tongue), his child should have no trouble whatsoever learning English. I am by far the main source of English for my daughter. She had a Taiwanese nanny since babyhood, Taiwaneses mommy, Taiwanese inlaws, Taiwanese teachers and classmates, surrounded by Taiwanese people in everday life, but she speaks English as well as any American her age. Admittedly, my wife’s English is far better than my Chinese, so the two of us speak mostly English, but I would imagine even if my wife and I spoke more Chinese together but I still spoke mostly English with my daughter that would be enough.
So I still maintain that for most foreigners there should be no need whatsoever to send their kindy age kids to an expensive school in tianmu or one that hires foreign teachers. Most kids with a western parent and Taiwanese parent should learn the western language and Chinese both just fine without any special effort. And kindergarten shouldn’t involve any fancy curriculum or pedagogy or philosophizing by people with fancy degrees. It’s mostly just a chance for very young kids to learn to get along with other kids and follow instructions (although I admit that I’m happy with the extremely basic “education” my daughter’s getting there about the body or animals or the world). I admit, also, that I live in Minsheng E Rd area, which I understand has some relatively wealthy and well-educated locals, so the local schools may be a notch better than some slummy rundown area, and I definitely strongly recommend that the OP search for recommendations from neighbors and scout around the neighborhood and take tours of a few kindies before choosing one, but still I believe there should be several perfectly decent local schools within walking or bicycling distance of his home, without any need for foreign assistance in teh education.
She’s not just a pretty face.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”] I would imagine even if my wife and I spoke more Chinese together but I still spoke mostly English with my daughter that would be enough.
[/quote]
I think that’s not necessarily true, in fact I’m sure that you and your wife mostly speaking English has helped your daughter’s English a lot.
I am a bit concerned, perhaps a little over exaggerating the problem but there are a couple of things I wouldn’t like my kid to pick up from his peers in Taiwan. Having said that, there are still a lot of advantages over other countries, one being a safe environment. A penny for anyone who finds a safer place anywhere in Europe. I’ve travelled to over 10 countries in Europe alone, and on coming here, first thing that struck me was how secure it is to let your offspring run around without fear of them being abducted or abused.
I do speak English but my mom is of Polish origin and I face a choice to make, which language to adhere to. I understand English bears much more importance in today’s world, still it can be picked up anywhere as it’s a compulsory subject.
Polish on the other hand, is not so widespread, and thus extremely hard to master as there are hardly any Polish courses in Taiwan.
Any advice?
[quote=“UKtoms”]Hi,
I do need a plan and a plan I can relate to even now. If I postpone it for too long, one day I may find myself in deep cr… and no way out. I hate the idea of leaving Taiwan when our kid reaches teenage years because it’s an important phase in his life and any changes may affect him beyond our understanding. Definitely, changing schools puts a lot of stress and pressure on the poor thing, imagine changing a country. New friends, new language barriers, new experiences. I don’t want him withdrawn and suffering.
If we are to move, we have to move when he’s still an infant. [/quote]
Another thought - there are some correspondence courses that enable you to get a high school diploma from overseas. Have you considered something along those lines? It’s just as recognized as other high school diplomas. I knew someone whose son went through it then decided to go to the states for college with no problems at all.
Matt
It’s not philosophising, it’s common sense.
I do, believe it or not, have some idea of what I’m talking about. It takes a certain level of skill to set up an environment where a child can ‘play with others’. I’m sure your child’s teachers make it look like a happy accident, but there’s a bit more too it than ‘let’s all get some nice aiyis and toys and hope nothing bad happens!’. Nothing bad happens by chance rather than design.
The teachers at government kindergartens have these ‘fancy degrees’. What about elementary school teachers? Do they not need ‘fancy degrees’ either? They don’t do anything vastly different in first grade. Teach reading? Not complex and certainly doesn’t need a fancy degree. Pediatric health and development is slightly more complex, as you would imagine, as well as setting up systems to monitor your child, or do you just want ‘x was very good today!’?
Next time you are in your home country, look at what’s available in terms of pre-school childcare for the fees that Taiwanese kindys charge. Then you’ll realise how much kindy bosses in Taiwan ‘care’. Look at it this way; if you’re in an illegal kindergarten, bribes have almost certainly paid about the staff and the premises. If you choose to see laws like that as irrelevant jobsworthiness then you are kidding yourself. Inspections are worthless because the kindergarten owner will have paid to be tipped off ahead of any inspection.
When I was 22, I worked in a French kindergarten, there was a horrible accident the summer before where a child died. As a result of this, a number of checks and balances were introduced. All that can ever improve in Taiwan is that parents get a bee in their bonnet for a few months after the latest incident, IF the Apple Daily get hold of it. In Taiwan, in any of the kindergartens I have observed (a chain school place, the kindy of an expensive private elementary school, an incredibly expensive private local place), very few of the government’s guidelines are followed to any degree. Don’t Taiwanese kids deserve as good quality education and care as other kids?
You hear westerners on this board yapping about ‘the Taiwanese education system’ but the only thing they ever yap about is that their kids won’t be ‘individuals’ and ‘free thinkers’ like themselves. You never hear ‘Will they forget about my child’s allergy because they have no systems in place to deal with food?’ ‘Will they accidentally leave my child in a hot bus in the middle of summer’ ‘Will they take my child swimming in a pool with no lifeguard and non swimming Taiwanese teachers; only the illegal foreigner can swim’ ‘Will they cover up infectious diseases in order to not spook parents the day before fees are due?’. ‘Will my kid be exposed to live wires because the builders are not due til next week?’ Just a few of the highlights from Taiwan.
Nowhere is perfect, but the above have all happened in Taiwan. Why? Were the parents cheap hicks who were too stupid to put their kids in a safe place? Were the kindergarten staff evil and lazy? No, it happens for a variety of reasons; Parents have a natural ability to extend; they love their kids. They literally can not see how anyone else would feel ambivalent towards their child, or tired or preoccupied or careless. They assume that strangers will automatically extend the same level of care towards their children as they would, whereas in a group situation, young Taiwanese women actually behave as they do in any other work situation; blame someone else, shift responsibility, etc. and even more so because the stakes are higher.
Now I know the above sounds alarmist and melodramatic. Chances are, no-one will die. And if your child has a genuinely bilingual environment at home, your child will grow up with at least spoken ability in the languages concerned; the English programs only stuff up monolingual kids’ English. But just give it a little thought; a kindergarten in Taipei, unless it’s one of the government ones is run on the exact same principles as a buxiban, with clever marketing. Don’t dismiss it out of hand, but consider what their angle is. What, specifically, are they saying to get you to sign and pay up? As an intelligent, caring parent, how are you being convinced that this environment is desirable for your child?
Is it the ‘genius, get a head start’ kind of place? The ‘fun, exercise, play, socialisation angle’? The ‘preparing for elementary school’ place? The ‘learning languages young’ place? The ‘fake Montessori’ place? The ‘stimulating environment’ place.
PS, (the ‘you’ is a generic ‘you’ and not addressed to one poster)