Kissinger and other "useful idiots"

While Neocons remain in power, extradition won’t even remotely be successful. If a morally-bound US leadership did actually honor the request (maybe in 2008 or 9?), I doubt it would help Neocon-GOPers advocate their misleading “protection of human rights.”

Catholics should start asking, “Why would the Vatican solicit Kissinger’s counsel?” Contradiction in values? Certainly no one will call the Holy See a terrorist organization (unless they have oil or switch from US Dollars to the Euro?), but surely the Pope knows Kissinger is a proven liar and a wanted criminal for terrorism across the globe? (Catholic Register - Kissinger to Serve As Papal Adviser?)

[quote]Kissinger’s extradition to Uruguay sought over Operation Condor
AFP, Sun Mar 25, 3:00 AM ET

MONTEVIDEO (AFP) - An attorney for a victim of Uruguay’s 1973-1985 dictatorship has asked his government to request the extradition of former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger over his alleged role in the notorious Operation Condor.

Condor was a secret plan hatched by South American dictators in the 1970s to eliminate leftist political opponents in the region. Details of the plan have emerged over the past years in documents and court testimony.

The Latin American dictatorships of the time “were mere executors” of a “plan of extermination” hatched in the United States by a group led by Kissinger, said attorney Gustavo Salle, who represents the family of Bernardo Arnone.

Uruguayan prosecutor Mirtha Guianze has received the request and is studying the case, according to news reports.

A leftist activist, Arnone was arrested in October 1976 and flown to Argentina with a group of political prisoners that vanished and were presumably executed.

Kissinger played a dominant role in US foreign policy between 1969 and 1977, and was a strong supporter of right-wing regimes across Latin America.

The extradition request comes as the topic of rights violations during Uruguay’s dictatorship is making headlines again, with Salle citing evidence from declassified US State Department documents.

Witnesses are set to testify in April in a case that began in September against eight retired regime officials over rights violations.

Original Article[/quote]

[quote=“Henry Kissinger said (not”]“Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.”
– Henry Kissinger speaking at Evian, France, May 21, 1992 Bilderburg meeting. Unbeknownst to Kissinger, his speech was taped by a Swiss delegate to the meeting. [/quote]
“Out of the sorrow of September 11th, I see opportunity.”
President Bush, October 29, 2001

“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
President Bush, May 24, 2005 in Rochester, NY.

Why was a proven liar and wanted man appointed by the White House to be in charge of the 9/11 investigation?
Henry Kissinger

[quote=“Former General Augusto Pinochet said (not”]

It is better to remain quiet and to forget.

That is the only thing we must do.

We must forget.

And that won’t happen if we continue opening up lawsuits, sending people to jail.

FOR-GET: That’s the word.

And for that to happen, both sides must forget and continue with their work.


Former General Augusto Pinochet, September 13 1995, two days after the 22nd anniversary of the military coup[/quote]

We will _ N O T _ forget.

The memory of Kissinger (as well as Pinochet) deserves nothing but spit, vile contempt and disgrace.

Kissinger and Nixon = War Criminals

…neocons…”… :roflmao:

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]"…neocons…"… :roflmao:[/quote]Here’s to igniting more shallow laughter.

The Kissinger Neocon Betrayal

[quote=“Bill Gallagher”]Kissinger – who helped chart the course for the disaster in Iraq – is only abandoning ship in a desperate attempt to try to spare his already permanently stained reputation more disgrace. Kissinger kept the war in Vietnam going and sent more Americans to their deaths for political purposes.

Kissinger is pure cynicism. Amorality is his code. He has no soul. Thus, he always feels comfortable in the company of Bush and Cheney, whispering into their ears his perverted wisdom.

We learned from Bob Woodward’s “State of Denial” that Kissinger made frequent trips to the White House to urge the invasion of Iraq and bolster Bush’s reckless instincts. Bush was an easy mark for the clever and treacherous Dr. Kissinger. [/quote][quote=“Gallagher further”]Kissinger’s fondness for force as the principal tool in foreign policy was played out in Vietnam and now Iraq. And old Henry didn’t mind having murder in his repertoire of diplomatic skills.

In 1973, Kissinger plotted to oust Chile’s elected leftist president Salvador Allende. In the process, Kissinger ordered the CIA to assassinate a Chilean army general he believed might oppose the coup. Allende and 3,197 Chileans died in the overthrow, a death toll remarkably close to the number killed in the Sept. 11 attacks.

But bloodshed never bothered Kissinger. His friend Augusto Pinochet was placed in power as dictator of Chile and carried out a two-decade long reign of terror, torture and murder. Kissinger is a repeat-offender war criminal. Vietnam, Cambodia, Chile and now Iraq top his rap sheet and represent only the tip of his treachery. [/quote][quote=“Gallagher continued”]Iraq is a “more complicated problem” than Vietnam, Kissinger admitted, adding, “I am basically sympathetic to President Bush. I am partly sympathetic because I have seen comparable situations.”

Note that Kissinger’s sympathy is for Bush, not the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of Americans killed in the experiment.

That’s typical of Kissinger, and we are now getting a new window into his sick mind. Robert Dallek’s new book “Nixon and Kissinger: Partners in Power” is excerpted in the May issue of “Vanity Fair” magazine.

Dallek spent four years sifting through the Nixon administration’s recently opened archives, which include 20,000 pages of verbatim transcripts of Kissinger’s phone conversations. He had his aides listen in on his phone calls and write down every word. Of course, Kissinger never thought the conversations would be made public – but thanks to Dallek, they are.

We learn that Nixon, disturbed as he was, considered Kissinger “psychopathic” and told his aide John Ehrlichman that Dr. K. “might need psychiatric help.” [/quote]


as described by Nixon

How appropriately defined…

…yet TainanCowboy finds this subject laughable?

Surely TainanCowboy once believed American patriotism should stand for truth and justice?

Shouldn’t proven terrorists (and terrorists’ leaders) be brought to justice?

OH… hehehehe… maybe he will let us know if his giggle doesn’t haunt his prayers.

Oh dear. Is it time for that let’s examine how many people right-wing dictators killed in Latin America while examining how many died around the world in the communist-imposed regimes that they were fighting to keep from being in place?

In Argentina, 9,000 to 30,000 people “disappeared.” Were there none that deserved to die as violent rebels who engaged in kidnappings, bombings and intimidation? And what was the new government of the Monteneros to look like if not a communist regime akin to that of the one in Cuba? And given that Cuba has the absolute worst human rights record in the Western Hemisphere, shouldn’t your concern be directed first at the most egregious violator of the rights that you claim to be most concerned about?

Chile: 3,000 killed. How many would have been killed had a communist regime been put in place. Why not ask your friends in Cuba to let you know how they live. Soon, you will also have those two fat-faced peasants at work in Bolivia and Venezuela. Let me know how and when they should be tried. But that is not really what you are interested in are you?

And the Bilderbergs? Oh, for the love of God, these people are so all-powerful and control everything so how the fuck did you get a copy of the Kissinger speech? Why do they even let little brilliances like you learn about them and their plans if they are so all powerful and if they are what makes you think that you can stop us. I mean them…

[quote=“fred smith”]Oh dear. Is it time for that let’s examine…[/quote]Are you trying to justify Kissinger’s atrocities in and related to Chile by pointing out that the Monteneros movement in Argentina shared a likeness to the Kissinger/CIA sponsored Pinochet regime? Trying to shift blame and disgrace away from Kissinger (to soften the disgrace of neocons worshipping his persona) says what exactly?

Will you argue that the democratically elected Allende deserved to be overthrown with the CIA’s assistance? Mind you such argument includes justifying the torture and execution of Charles Horman (and thousands of other humans, many of which were also American).

[quote=“fred smith”]Chile: 3,000 killed. How many would have been killed had a communist regime been put in place.[/quote]At least 3000 humans abused. Check your facts, then report back when you concoct evidence that Allende was pro-communist.

Do you honestly stand proud to argue the benefits of the US helping to undermine a Chile’s '73 political power in favor of the Operation Condor agenda?[quote=“In response to fred smith, I”]You previously inferred that Renditions (specifically Kidnapping, Illegal Imprisonment & Immoral Torture) are OK as long as the victims aren’t holding a US citizenship.[/quote]You’ve yet to contradict this, and your very silence ‘speaks volumes’ about your dignity. But you probably think you’re normal because you subscribe to the neoconservative morality of lies=truth and murder=righteousness. So of course the threat of those scary red communists had to be expelled at all costs. How Dr. Goebbels would praise your logic.

[quote=“United States Institute of Peace”]
Truth Commissions Digital Collection: Reports: Chile

PART FOUR: Chapter Four : Truth and Reconciliation

Our task revolved around two fundamental objectives: truth and reconciliation. As defined for us, our work was to come to a comprehensive grasp of the truth of what had happened, for it was utterly necessary to do so in order to bring about reconciliation among Chileans.

Nevertheless we believe there is one thing that no one can deny: Chile has undergone a wrenching tragedy.

The depth of this suffering must be made known. We cannot conceal it or leave it to offhand commentary, to being dismissed, or for that matter to being exaggerated. We must collectively acknowledge that all of this happened. Only from that moment on-when each individual has plumbed what it means to suffer and to cause suffering-will some be moved to repentance and others to forgiveness. This is not a matter for mere words or for some sort of sentimental sermon. Anyone who had to go over each of the cases recorded in this report and to enter into contact with the huge number of people who told their very personal and unutterable stories will be well aware of how a human being can be ennobled.

We have witnessed and documented the tragedy. We trust that whoever reads this report will appreciate even more the expression, “Never again!” It must be never again, for we cannot return to a situation in which Chileans will again be facing the vile absurdity of resolving political problems through murder, torture, and hatred. Such a “never again” therefore also means not doing to others what has been done to oneself. Legally and politically, that is tantamount to saying that respect for the rights of every human being must come into play as the basis for our common life.[/quote]
“Military men are just dumb, stupid, animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”
Henry Kissinger, quoted in Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW’s in Vietnam.

I was going to let your bildergerg dribble slide, but lets unravel your elitist façade shall we? 50 years ago analysis of global social elitists proposed that…[quote]Verbal self-placement of individuals or groups in a class is significant only to a limited degree.[/quote]The players may have multiplied but the consideration still remains. Your whopping 11,500+ forumosa posts suggest you command anything other than an elite position. If one’s demeanor suggests elitism… describing your presentation would include limp or strapping? Maybe some other formosans will care to comment (while you and I already know the answer). Moreover, pompous disdain for middle and under-class people hardly elevates one to a higher class. Attempting to associate yourself with the ultra powerful may sound good after a couple bottles of chardonnay and some of your " friends’ " glaucoma remedy. “Power is the great aphrodisiac.” – Henry Kissenger, New York Times, January 19, 1971. But when your reality sets in, you’ll eventually relinquish the ‘we/us are the elite’ nonsense.

Here are a few thoughts on the subject:[quote]
U.S. Strategy Plan Calls for Insuring No Rivals

Pentagon’s Document Outlines Ways to Thwart Challenges to Primacy of America
New York Times
March 8, 1992

‘America must prevent other states “from challenging our leadership or seeking to overturn the established political and economic order…We must maintain the mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role.”’ – Pentagon’s Defense Planning Guidance for 1994-1999.[/quote][quote]
Planet Earth As Weapon and Target

World Affairs, The Journal of International Issues v.9, n.4, Winter 2005

The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR, The Trilateral Commission–founded by Zbigniew Brzezinski for David Rockefeller–and the Bilderberg Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.

“It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms.” – John Stockwell, former CIA official and author of In Search of Enemies.[/quote][quote=“Stockwell further”]“But history increasingly keeps score, and the CIA’s operations are never secret for long. Inevitably they are exposed, by our press, by whistleblowers in our government, by our healthy compulsion to know the truth. Covert operations are incompatible with our system of government and we do them badly. Nevertheless, a succession of presidents and Henry Kissingers have been lured into questionable adventures for which, they are promised by the CIA, they will never be held accountable. Generally they are not, they move on to sinecures before the operations are fully exposed. Our country is left to face the consequences.”[/quote]

Does the remark “…your friends in Cuba…” infer to a personal support of Michael Moore’s Cuban Tour for 9/11 First Responders? If so, we’ll regard such as another lapse in judgment.

Paranoia is a treatable ailment.

Get help. Stop smoking dope.

Pathetic response fred smith, again. Even if dope did lead to psychotic disorders, there are no plans here to start.

But you running away from yet another spanking because Kissinger and related Neocon lies aren’t worth defending proves to be quite entertaining. Xie xie.

What do you think they have now … Vatican Dollars? They are working in the Euro zone …

1 Like

Belgian Pie, I stand corrected. Thank you.

Let’s see who is running or should be running…

Oh yes, what is this…

Kissinger is and was a Realist. Do you understand the difference?

Looks like you “stand corrected” again. You might want to be seated. I imagine that this will be happening with great frequency.

This thread is like the “Seinfeld Show.”

A thread about nothing.

Oh my. [quote=“fred smith”]You might want to be seated. I imagine that this will be happening with great frequency.[/quote]Obviously your imagination includes waiting for someone to step in and offer you some rational thoughts why Americans should be content knowing that this war criminal speaks in the ear of the White House.

Although Kissinger calls the Iraq war LOST while Cheney reinforces to Rush his ‘legitimate’ right to ‘protect’ Iraq’s oil reserves, the White House and Neocons (and obviously some formosan chickenhawks) still refuse to admit that justice against Kissinger is long overdue.[quote=“fred smith”]Kissinger is and was a Realist. Do you understand the difference?[/quote]Is Adolf one of history’s Realist heros as well?
Propaganda selling illegal wars is Real.
Torture is Real.
Assassinations are Real.
Someone who manipulates and/or justifies either torture or assassinations is a Real criminal. How much Realism are you capable of defending? [quote=“TainanCowboy”]This thread is like the “Seinfeld Show.” A thread about nothing.[/quote]You’ll probably remember hearing your hero…[quote=“President Bush said on Sept. 20, 2001 (not”]“Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.”[/quote]Certainly you didn’t sleep through that did you?
“From this day forward…” only America can harbor terrorists?

Did the US Military attack Afghanistan because the accused (CIA trained and funded) terrorists of 9/11 operated training camps there? Yes. And they are still only accused, despite the numerous tortured admissions.

Regardless how long someone closes their eyes - plugs their ears - and babbles like a fat spoiled toddler, fact remains that declassified evidence directly proves Kissinger’s guilt for crimes against humanity, terrorism and assassinations in many nations, including America.

Those who support and protect war criminals because of political party affiliation are no better than the very criminals tried in Nuremberg. fred smith may whine some anti-Carter reply, and TainanCowboy might sing some rubberstamp cartoon credence, but history WILL record this criminal Kissinger as one of the most successful terrorists, murderers and filth of all time. Now what really does that make his Neocon supporters? “Good Americans?” (ref Good Germans)

In the case of Pope Benedict (Ratzinger) soliciting this war criminal’s advise, will history remember this as just another embarrassment to the Catholic church?

The sea was angry that day my friends. Like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli.” - George, in “The Marine Biologist”

Your lack of knowledge about American politics equals your ignorance on Latin American affairs.

Kissinger and neocons certainly aren’t related. The Scoop Jackson side of the Democratic Party in the 1970s (Jackson aides such as Richard Perle and allies such as Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Norman Podhoretz, Elliot Abrams etc.) were
vocal critics of Kissinger and détente. Most of these neocons were not huge fans of Kissinger and the Rockefeller wing of the Republican party (Rockefeller enraged Jackson for alleging that Jackson aide and anti Communist Dorothy Fosdick was a Communist).

Most of these neocons left the Democratic Party after the 1980 election and gained prominent positions within the Reagan administration.

JAS, in your opinion, Kissinger should or shouldn’t be extradited for crimes related to Operation Condor?

Is your point that Kissinger should not be mentioned as a neocon alignment, or that neocons do not support him? I’ll be the first to offer sincere thanks if proven incorrect. How about you? By all means keep your gloves on if you’ve got an argument to make.

You’re attempting to disassociate Kissinger from 21st century neocons? We know Reagonites were not Dr. K fans, however our 9/11 era is vastly different from the 80’s. In agreement with your understanding that early neocons had problems with Nixon/Kissinger’s red scare posturing, here’s an excerpt for you:[quote=“Robert Parry”]
Neocon Amorality

Robert Parry

Soviet Giant
This strategy first surfaced in the 1970s when the neoconservative movement took shape around a group of former leftists and anticommunist intellectuals, the likes of Irving Kristol and Richard Pipes, who were determined to build a power base by hyping the threat from the Soviet Union. To do this, the neocons teamed up with some old-line conservatives to challenge the détente strategy of President Richard Nixon and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

The neocons’ problem was that CIA analysts already were detecting signs – from both technical and human intelligence – that the Soviet Union was in steep decline and desperate for accommodation with the West. One senior CIA officer told me that he was hearing this news from some of his most trusted agents inside the Soviet Union.

Drawing on such CIA assessments, Nixon and Kissinger favored a policy of engaging Moscow in a policy aimed at eliminating some of worst dangers from the nuclear arms race and gradually reducing tensions.[/quote]
When the soviet scare fizzled, proponents of US aggression bent on ensuring lasting dominance did not. PNAC’s charter is but only one reference. A whole thread elsewhere covers more details.

[quote=“JAS”]Your lack of knowledge about American politics equals your ignorance on Latin American affairs.

Kissinger and neocons certainly aren’t related.[/quote]

Contradicting your claim
(& reversing your own insult), some remarks about Kissinger/neocon relations:

[quote=“Christopher Hitchens”]
The Return of Henry Kissinger

Will we never be free of the malign effect of this little gargoyle?
Christopher Hitchens

Bob Woodward’s disclosure of the influence of Henry Kissinger on the Bush administration’s Iraq policy both is and is not a surprise.
After all, we have known for a long time that the bungling old war criminal has his admirers within the White House. Did not the president, almost but not quite incredibly, call on him as the first chairman of the 9/11 commission
? Kissinger’s initial acceptance of that honor was swiftly withdrawn after it was pointed out–first of all in this space, if I may say so–that he would have to make a full disclosure of the interests of Kissinger Associates in the Middle East. This condition was too much for him. (I added that, since he was wanted for questioning by magistrates in France, Chile, and Argentina, in connection with offenses of state terrorism, his appointment to a position of such high eminence at such a time might expose the United States to ridicule, not to say contempt.)[/quote][quote=“Timothy Noah”]
Kissinger’s Advice to Bush

Timothy Noah

In his new book, State of Denial, Bob Woodward reports that
Henry Kissinger was a “powerful, largely invisible influence on Bush’s Iraq policy.”
Woodward quotes Vice President Dick Cheney saying in 2005 that he talked to Kissinger “at least once a month.” Kissinger met with President Bush, Woodward writes, “every couple of months.”

Kissinger saw Iraq “through the prism of the Vietnam war,” which Kissinger believes was won in 1972 but subsequently lost “because of the weakened resolve of the public and Congress.” (For more of Kissinger’s revisionist views on Vietnam and their relevance to Iraq, click here.) One Vietnam lesson, Kissinger told Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson, was that Bush must resist public pressure to withdraw troops from Iraq.[/quote]Some recent articles do examine Dr K’s current retreat from supporting the neocon’s war in Iraq, but his influence undeniably still ensures his protection from justice. [quote=“Bill Gallagher”]
The Kissinger Neocon Betrayal

Kissinger’s Useful Idiot Bush Now Finds Himself Alone and Friendless
Bill Gallagher

King Rat, Henry Kissinger, is leaving the USS Shrub to save face. His departure underlines the willingness of President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney to continue sending young Americans to die in a venture they know has failed. Kissinger is an expert in that area.

Kissinger – who helped chart the course for the disaster in Iraq – is only abandoning ship in a desperate attempt to try to spare his already permanently stained reputation more disgrace. Kissinger kept the war in Vietnam going and sent more Americans to their deaths for political purposes.

Kissinger is pure cynicism. Amorality is his code. He has no soul. Thus, he always feels comfortable in the company of Bush and Cheney, whispering into their ears his perverted wisdom.[/quote]

Now back to the point…

Do YOU, JAS, believe any neocon will support Kissinger’s extradition? Even though I can’t name many Dems who would either (maybe Gravel, if he becomes President), we aren’t talking about parties that do NOT have the power to honor the request.

Dr. K’s self-justification of non-extradition policy:[quote=“Henry Kissinger”]
The Pitfalls of Universal Jurisdiction: Risking Judicial Tryanny

Henry Kissinger

It is an important principle that those who commit war crimes or systematically violate human rights should be held accountable. But the consolidation of law, domestic peace, and representative government in a nation struggling to come to terms with a brutal past has a claim as well. The instinct to punish must be related, as in every constitutional democratic political structure, to a system of checks and balances that includes other elements critical to the survival and expansion of democracy.

Another grave issue is the use in such cases of extradition procedures designed for ordinary criminals. If the Pinochet case becomes a precedent, magistrates anywhere will be in a position to put forward an extradition request without warning to the accused and regardless of the policies the accused’s country might already have in place for dealing with the charges. The country from which extradition is requested then faces a seemingly technical legal decision that, in fact, amounts to the exercise of political discretion – whether to entertain the claim or not.

The advocates of universal jurisdiction argue that the state is the basic cause of war and cannot be trusted to deliver justice. If law replaced politics, peace and justice would prevail. But even a cursory examination of history shows that there is no evidence to support such a theory. The role of the statesman is to choose the best option when seeking to advance peace and justice, realizing that there is frequently a tension between the two and that any reconciliation is likely to be partial. The choice, however, is not simply between universal and national jurisdictions.[/quote][quote=“Simon Jones”]
Just What Does Kissinger Think of the Neocons?

Simon Jones

One of his favorite quotes was Goethe: “If I had to choose between justice and disorder, and injustice and order, I would always choose the latter.”[/quote]OF COURSE KISSINGER MUST CHOOSE INJUSTICE.
Secondly: Justice Can and Should Exist Within Order.

“The country from which extradition is requested then faces a seemingly technical legal decision that, in fact, amounts to the exercise of political discretion – whether to entertain the claim or not.”
And in come our neocon leaders to exercise political discretion,
also facing guilt of international crimes, fully capable yet unwilling to support either justice or order.

JAS, if you intend to demonstrate that Kissinger DOES NOT deserve to face justice for international crimes, please do so.

And finally JAS, if I have offered some ill-stated information on Latin or South American affairs specific to Kissinger facing justice for Operation Condor (or in any thread), by all means please do enlighten. Otherwise save the gloves for another day.

A deep grave dig here—which I hope is excusable as Kissinger is now in his late 90s.

With newfound awareness in the west about what the PRC government is up to, has Kissinger changed his long-running Beijing-flattering tune? In the first of a two-part article, the awesome William Stanton takes a look at Kissinger’s recent activities and statements involving Beijing, as well as noting things that happened when Stanton was stationed in China in the 1990s.

So is Kissinger a US foreign policy genius or simply a useful idiot? Read this and decide for yourself.


Those posts definitely needed a few flicks of the thumb each!

Posts from the pre-“smart” phone era.

You know, back when we could actually put together—and read—more than a couple of lines. :rofl: