Know the difference between ESL and EFL. Come on people!

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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Let’s get it right! We, the teachers, should sound like we at least know what we are talking about. Every time I read or hear someone say they are an ESL teacher in Taiwan, it drives me nuts!!! :doh: :no-no: :noway:

[b][color=#4000FF]EFL: English as a Foreign Language[/color]

[color=#408000]ESL: English as a Second Language[/color][/b]

There is a difference between the two, not only by definition, but also in teaching methods and needs. The main differences between EFL and ESL are the students and the location where English is being taught to speakers of other languages. Starting with the basics:

EFL stands for: English as a Foreign Language
ESL stands for: English as a Second Language.

An English teacher who teaches English to speakers of other languages in a non-English speaking country is teaching EFL. For example, an American living and teaching English in Taiwan is an EFL teacher. His or her students are most likely Taiwanese and their first language (L1) is Chinese. The students are studying EFL…NOT ESL!

A teacher living and teaching English in an English speaking country, such as the U.S. or Australia, is teaching ESL. The teacher’s students are mostly likely students who are from non-English speaking countries, but are now living and studying English in an English-speaking country.

For the English teacher, the differences between EFL and ESL may require different lesson plans, different approaches and different topics. An English language learner studying ESL may have more immediate English needs. The student may not need to worry about grammar right away, but may need to learn basic survival skills as quickly as possible. A student studying EFL may not be as concerned about learning English as quickly as possible because he or she is probably living in a country where he or she speaks the primary language of the country and is able to take care of the necessities of daily life.

Many private schools tend to teach in, what they like to call, an immersed environment where only English is spoken. This means that they treat English teaching as ESL and not EFL. In this instance, many people assume it is ok to refer to it as ESL, but in fact the student is still living in an EFL environment – the student does not need or use English in their day to day needs outside the classroom.

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I’ve noticed that a lot of schools import ESL materials for use here, especially in conversation classes. A lot of teachers teach using ESL paradigms, as well; some whole schools’ structures are based on these models. This is unfortunate, because unless they travel, coping in English in a garage, laundromat or hotel probably won’t be necessary. They also won’t be hearing or reading English on a regular basis, without making an effort to do so, so grammar and syntax takes on extra importance.

Good post, Quarters.

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Agreed, there is a difference.

The elementary school I teach at in the States refers to teaching E.S.L. as E.S.O.L. - English to Speakers of Other Languages. The focus is on teaching content / academic language in collaboration with the homeroom teacher.

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How many people here don’t know the difference?

More to the point, how many buxibans or elementary schools here give a shit? I’d love to witness the conversation with a laoban.

Foreign Teacher: “These materials and methods are for ESL, not EFL.”
Laoban: “Play more games and smile more.”

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No, no guys, you don’t see it as they do. “It is English as a Second Language because English is the second language kids learn”. See?

:loco:

Sigh

Trying to explain enviromental differences after that statement is an exercise in futility. When I was studying for my masters, my professors were quick to point out that, even though most of our textbooks and readings refered to ESL, we had to make leeway for the EFL environment we were in. Ask any local college English student if they are told so. Go ahead, ask. And if future teachers do not know, then how will the students, from elementary scvhool to buxiban level, get what they need?

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How about we skip through the jargon and just agree to teach language skills that are relevant to our students’ realities, interests and needs?

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Amen. The jargon is poorly coined, anyway.

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The jargon isn’t perfect but I think there is an important point here: ESL material is not necessarily going to be suitable for EFL (most Taiwanese) learners, at least not without modification by the teacher.

ESL material is written presuming that the learner has a rich language environment and will absorb a lot out of class.

In Taiwan, EFL learners have to be very proactive to find a rich English environment outside of class. What is more common is a muddled English environment (US TV shows with subtitles or dubbed, ICRT with fast Chinese translation, incorrectly written English signs etc.).

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Because in order to teach language skills that are relevant to our students’ realities, interests and needs we need to take into account the environment they live in and the input they receive, ie.e. as EFL not as ESL.

It is more than a label, it’s a state of mind. :smiley:

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But isn’t the bottom line, regardless of what environment you are teaching in, finding content that is interesting, relevant and useful to the student? When that criteria is met, it’s more likely they will remember the language used. When I was teaching in high school, I skipped sections of books that were totally irrelevant to my students’ reality and just substituted it with something that was.

Getting hung up on the acronym used is not really getting to the real issue.

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ESL is better because students can learn just like in the US!!! Yes, I have actually heard that

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[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]How many people here don’t know the difference?

More to the point, how many buxibans or elementary schools here give a shit? I’d love to witness the conversation with a laoban.

Foreign Teacher: “These materials and methods are for ESL, not EFL.”
Laoban: “Play more games and smile more.”[/quote]

Exactly the point.

Bushibans don’t often have a clue, but arrogantly think they know it all. I don’t know of any bushibans that actually allow the teacher to choose the curriculum and the methods (not saying they don’t exist, just that I haven’t seen it).

Some schools use ‘Up and Away’, which in some ways is good, but in others clearly misses the mark. There is a whole section devoted to American money. Complete waste of time in my opinion, but you cannot explain that to a Bushiban owner/manager.

Laoban: “Play more games and smile more.”

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To be fair, ‘trusting the teacher’ is a bit of a gamble and probably not a smart move either.

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[quote=“CraigTPE”]But isn’t the bottom line, regardless of what environment you are teaching in, finding content that is interesting, relevant and useful to the student? When that criteria is met, it’s more likely they will remember the language used. When I was teaching in high school, I skipped sections of books that were totally irrelevant to my students’ reality and just substituted it with something that was.

Getting hung up on the acronym used is not really getting to the real issue.[/quote]
EFL - content that is interesting, relevant and useful to the student
ESL - content that is NOT interesting, relevant and useful to the student

If we use the appropriate abbreviation then we know we’re doing the right thing. Not knowing the difference, or not bothering to differentiate, is a good way to give them the wrong thing.

Q: Should I use a fast film, or a slow one for this shot?
A: Use the one that is most suitable for the environment you’re in.

I’d prefer to take advice from someone that could tell me which one to buy.

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Yes, quite true in many cases.

If a teacher has training, experience, and degree(s)/certifications then it’s a different story. The curriculum should at least be designed by a native speaker that knows his/her shit. After that, it makes sense to be fairly rigid with your average clueless foreign teacher with a degree in art history and beer bongs.

…Or we could all just smile, play more games and teach the ever important American money!

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But we sometimes forget that the English learning environment in Taiwan is largely a facade. Most learners spend 12+ years having from 1 to 3 English classes each week, not including buxiban, then promptly forget everything they learned because there’s no practical application for English. One might think that given the number of years English is shoved down these kids’ throats that Taiwan might have a higher percentage of at least conversationally English literate people, but it just isn’t so.
Call it ESL or EFL (yes I know the difference), but the fact remains that many of us are really spinning our wheels. I’m not saying give it all up, because a small percentage will remember, continue to learn, and use English to advance themselves.

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Not necessarily. Many people have all the right certificates and know all the right terms, abbreviations and acronyms, but still can’t teach worth a darn. It’s more important to understand the underlying principles than the acronym that describes it. It’s the difference between practical knowledge and theoretical knowledge.

Maybe, but if the teacher can find out what kinds of things the students are interested in, and target some of the lesson toward those topics, they do tend to retain the language longer. However, if we continue to teach things that are irrelevant to their reality and uninteresting to them personally, they won’t retain it. Why do you think they can always remember the dirty words? :roflmao:

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Craig wrote:

I agree with you here. But Craig, take for instance the fact that most buxibans will give this long lists of unrelated, translated words for students to memorize -heck, they gave us those lists, too, when we study Chinese. Now, most theories in the West say vocabulary is better learned by association, in categories, the way we store data in our brain, for example: fruits, red fruits, apples, etc…

Now, they do this awful thing here because there are too many students and not enough time, the tests are also totally unrelated, that’s the way vocabulary is presented in their textbooks, the more words they “know” the more “English” they “command”, it makes them look busy/keeps them busy, it is “easier” to understand the “meaning” in Chinese, etc… You will hear lost of reasons and excuses for this practice, which is pushed all teh way through school, high school and college, even teachers will be told to do this. It is a whole different theoretical approach.

The students reality is the pressing need to pass all those awful tests, set by people who want them to fail so they are trapped in a revolving door while they make more money. I undersrand as a serious teacher, we all feel this kind of teaching is morally wrong. Nevertheless, our students need to pass teh tests should still be a priority, and acgieving that while presenting the input in teh most relevant and interesting manner is the greatest challenge.

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ENAP - English for no Apparent Purpose.

There’s a hell of a lot of that in Taiwan.

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I split some of the more general discussion to [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/the-buxiban-system/53986/1 thread.[/url]