Koran Burning and Freedom of Speech, Part II

Politics International Politics
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Continued from this locked thread:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=91505&hilit=terry+koran&start=190

Here’s an update: Pastor Terry Jones did go ahead with his plans to burn the koran and it did lead to deaths, as warned/predicted.


In Mazar-i-Sharif on Friday, Afghans chanted anti-American slogans during a demonstration to condemn the burning of a copy of the Muslim holy book by an American pastor.

[quote]MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan — Stirred up by a trio of angry mullahs who urged them to avenge the burning of a Koran at a Florida church, thousands of protesters overran the compound of the United Nations in this northern Afghan city, killing at least 12 people, Afghan and United Nations officials said.

The dead included at least seven United Nations workers — four Nepalese guards and three Europeans from Romania, Sweden and Norway — according to United Nations officials in New York. One was a woman. Early reports, later denied by Afghan officials, said that at least two of the dead had been beheaded. Five Afghans were also killed.

The attack was the deadliest for the United Nations in Afghanistan since 11 people were killed in 2009, when Taliban suicide bombers invaded a guesthouse in Kabul. It also underscored the latent hostility toward the nine-year foreign presence here, even in a city long considered to be among the safest in Afghanistan — so safe that American troops no longer patrol here in any numbers.

Unable to find Americans on whom to vent their anger, the mob turned instead on the next-best symbol of Western intrusion — the nearby United Nations headquarters. “Some of our colleagues were just hunted down,” said a spokesman for the United Nations . . . .

Afghanistan, deeply religious and reflexively volatile, has long been one of the most reactive flashpoints to perceived insults against Islam. When a Danish cartoonist lampooned the Prophet Muhammad, four people were killed in riots in Afghanistan within days in 2006. The year before, a one-paragraph item in Newsweek alleging that guards at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had flushed a Koran down the toilet set off three days of riots that left 14 people dead in Afghanistan.

Friday’s episode began when three mullahs, addressing worshipers at Friday Prayer inside the Blue Mosque here, one of Afghanistan’s holiest places, urged people to take to the streets to agitate for the arrest of Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran on March 20. . . . [/quote]
nytimes.com/2011/04/02/world … ml?_r=1&hp

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That first pic couldn’t look any phonier.

Just saying is all.

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Terry Jones is an idiot. He looks like an idiot. He talks like an idiot. He acts like an idiot. And, like most idiots, he thinks that other people care.

And, like most idiots, he can be depended upon to smoke around gasoline, and his last words will probably be “Hey, watch this!”

Having said that, if a religion can’t handle insult… well, your religion isn’t all that much is it?

Likewise, I don’t think that we should be trying to placate the poor idiots who get upset when their faith isn’t given the respect they want.

I’m big on the bible. I believe what it says. I’m a true believer, baby.

But, if you want to burn the bible, I’ll sell as many copies to you as you want. And, if you buy enough of them…

I’ll even give you a discount.

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[quote=“Got To Be Kidding”]Terry Jones is an idiot. He looks like an idiot. He talks like an idiot. He acts like an idiot. And, like most idiots, he thinks that other people care.

And, like most idiots, he can be depended upon to smoke around gasoline, and his last words will probably be “Hey, watch this!”

Having said that, if a religion can’t handle insult… well, your religion isn’t all that much is it?

Likewise, I don’t think that we should be trying to placate the poor idiots who get upset when their faith isn’t given the respect they want.

I’m big on the bible. I believe what it says. I’m a true believer, baby.

But, if you want to burn the bible, I’ll sell as many copies to you as you want. And, if you buy enough of them…

I’ll even give you a discount.[/quote]
Firstly I though personal attacks were not allowed on this forum and u called Terry Jones an idiot half a dozen times.
Attack the message and not the messenger.
Secondly, can u send me a Quaran to burn instead of the bible? Is that okay? I am in Taipei so should be convenient for you.

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[quote=“fenlander”][quote=“Got To Be Kidding”]Terry Jones is an idiot. He looks like an idiot. He talks like an idiot. He acts like an idiot. And, like most idiots, he thinks that other people care.

And, like most idiots, he can be depended upon to smoke around gasoline, and his last words will probably be “Hey, watch this!”

Having said that, if a religion can’t handle insult… well, your religion isn’t all that much is it?

Likewise, I don’t think that we should be trying to placate the poor idiots who get upset when their faith isn’t given the respect they want.

I’m big on the bible. I believe what it says. I’m a true believer, baby.

But, if you want to burn the bible, I’ll sell as many copies to you as you want. And, if you buy enough of them…

I’ll even give you a discount.[/quote]
Firstly I though personal attacks were not allowed on this forum and u called Terry Jones an idiot half a dozen times.
Attack the message and not the messenger.
Secondly, can u send me a Quaran to burn instead of the bible? Is that okay? I am in Taipei so should be convenient for you.[/quote]

The rules of this site concern conduct between members. I cannot call you an idiot, fenlander (not that I want to), but I can call Terry Jones an idiot. Similarly, I can call mindless sheeple in far-off lands who participate in violent protests over that same idiot’s actions total douchebags.

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My response to this news item is: U. S. out of Afghanistan, yesterday.

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Oh great create more terrorists and promote more violence and discord in the world.

Hmmm, these are christian values?

It’s silly to get angry if your holy book is burned, but it’s even sillier to waste your time doing such a childish act. How in the heck did this clown get to be a pastor anyway? He could have spent the same time and energy helping promote ‘love thy neighbor’ or ‘turn the other cheek’ and helping people in these challenging times. Instead, he’s just pouring more fuel on the fire.

Idiot of the year.

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[quote=“Homey”]Oh great create more terrorists and promote more violence and discord in the world.

Hmmm, these are christian values?

It’s silly to get angry if your holy book is burned, but it’s even sillier to waste your time doing such a childish act. How in the heck did this clown get to be a pastor anyway? He could have spent the same time and energy helping promote ‘love thy neighbor’ or ‘turn the other cheek’ and helping people in these challenging times. Instead, he’s just pouring more fuel on the fire.

Idiot of the year.[/quote]

I agree that Jones is an idiot, first class. However, how is that he creates more terrorists? People who can get worked up into a murderous rage over insignificant acts of stupidity have a predisposition to terrorism already.

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There’s not exactly a lengthy list of requirements to claim that status.

[quote=“Wikipedia”]Terry Jones […] attended college for two years, worked at a hotel, then joined the now defunct Maranatha Campus Ministries. He moved to Cologne Germany in 1981 to found a charismatic Christian church, the Christian Community of Cologne (CGK) in 1981. Jones received an honorary degree from an unaccredited theology school in 1983, and began using the title “Doctor”, for which he was later fined by a German administrative court. The CGK grew to have a membership of approximately 800-1000 by the late 2000s. According to the German magazine, Der Spiegel, the congregation kicked Jones out in 2008 due to the “climate of fear and control” that he employed which included elements of “brainwashing” and telling congregants to beat their children with rods. There were also allegations that he improperly used church funds, and forced congregants to labor for free. A leader of the Cologne church said Jones did not “project the biblical values and Christianity, but always made himself the center of everything”; Deutsche Presse-Agentur reported that church members said Jones ran the Cologne church like a cult, using psychological pressure.

Jones served as the part-time pastor of the Gainesville, Florida church, Dove World Outreach between 2001 and 2008, shuttling back and forth to Germany, Jones assumed full-time duties at Dove World in 2008 after leaving the German church. By September 2010, Dove World was said to have 50 members, with about 30 members reportedly attending services.[/quote]

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There’s not exactly a lengthy list of requirements to claim that status.

[quote=“Wikipedia”]Terry Jones […] attended college for two years, worked at a hotel, then joined the now defunct Maranatha Campus Ministries. He moved to Cologne Germany in 1981 to found a charismatic Christian church, the Christian Community of Cologne (CGK) in 1981. Jones received an honorary degree from an unaccredited theology school in 1983, and began using the title “Doctor”, for which he was later fined by a German administrative court. The CGK grew to have a membership of approximately 800-1000 by the late 2000s. According to the German magazine, Der Spiegel, the congregation kicked Jones out in 2008 due to the “climate of fear and control” that he employed which included elements of “brainwashing” and telling congregants to beat their children with rods. There were also allegations that he improperly used church funds, and forced congregants to labor for free. A leader of the Cologne church said Jones did not “project the biblical values and Christianity, but always made himself the center of everything”; Deutsche Presse-Agentur reported that church members said Jones ran the Cologne church like a cult, using psychological pressure.

Jones served as the part-time pastor of the Gainesville, Florida church, Dove World Outreach between 2001 and 2008, shuttling back and forth to Germany, Jones assumed full-time duties at Dove World in 2008 after leaving the German church. By September 2010, Dove World was said to have 50 members, with about 30 members reportedly attending services.[/quote][/quote]

Why are we not surprised?

I’ve seen far too many of this stripe, calling themselves Christian and blackening the name of those who ARE. He’s nothing but a two-bit pharisee with a ridiculous mustache.

He’s also besmirching the good name of Terence Graham Parry Jones, or Terry Jones to those of us who grew up with Monty Python.

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Cannot understand why people are calling him an idiot. For me an idiot is someone who is not smart or unable to do such things as plan and maipulate. He’s no idiot and knows exactly what he is doing and why. He is a religious zealot who is deliberately doing this to cause a religious war. Perhaps I am wrong but I do not see him as an idiot any more than Chairman Mao, Hitler or Charles Manson.

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Your partially define “idiot” as “someone who is not smart…” Bingo is all I can say to that. He’s stupid and obviously so.

He’s not in the same league as the other tyrants you listed, not in terms of either intelligence or charisma.

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He IS an idiot.

He claims to believe in God and the bible. The bible lays down a set of morals and ethics that this Terry fellow chooses not to conform to. He claims to be a Christian which means that he claims to be a follower of Christ, who was a friend of the ‘dregs’ of society. Christ befriended all kinds of people, except one: arrogant, judgmental religious leadership (i.e., Pharisees - people like Terry Jones).

The fact that he’s set himself up as a ‘pastor’ means that (according to the bible) he will suffer even greater indemnity in the life to come.

If life eternal is your goal, why would you engage in activities that would endanger that?

Unless, of course, you’re an idiot.

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He IS an idiot.

He claims to believe in God and the bible. The bible lays down a set of morals and ethics that this Terry fellow chooses not to conform to. He claims to be a Christian which means that he claims to be a follower of Christ, who was a friend of the ‘dregs’ of society. Christ befriended all kinds of people, except one: arrogant, judgmental religious leadership (i.e., Pharisees - people like Terry Jones).

The fact that he’s set himself up as a ‘pastor’ means that (according to the bible) he will suffer even greater indemnity in the life to come.

If life eternal is your goal, why would you engage in activities that would endanger that?

Unless, of course, you’re an idiot.[/quote]
You are assuming that he actually believes in his religion and is not just using a religious veil to cheat and deceive people for his own benefit. Be it money, power, fame, ego or whatever. He seems like a cult leader to me, Anyway he does not strike me as being particulary stupid. Perhaps mad, crazy, deluded, scheming or many other adjective but not an idiot. So lets just agree to disagree on that. You could be right but I am not convinced he is stupid.

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He IS an idiot.

He claims to believe in God and the bible. The bible lays down a set of morals and ethics that this Terry fellow chooses not to conform to. He claims to be a Christian which means that he claims to be a follower of Christ, who was a friend of the ‘dregs’ of society. Christ befriended all kinds of people, except one: arrogant, judgmental religious leadership (i.e., Pharisees - people like Terry Jones).

The fact that he’s set himself up as a ‘pastor’ means that (according to the bible) he will suffer even greater indemnity in the life to come.

If life eternal is your goal, why would you engage in activities that would endanger that?

Unless, of course, you’re an idiot.[/quote]
You are assuming that he actually believes in his religion and is not just using a religious veil to cheat and deceive people for his own benefit. Be it money, power, fame, ego or whatever. He seems like a cult leader to me, Anyway he does not strike me as being particulary stupid. Perhaps mad, crazy, deluded, scheming or many other adjective but not an idiot. So lets just agree to disagree on that. You could be right but I am not convinced he is stupid.[/quote]

Okay. I admit that he could be a complete con artist.

If he is… HE’S AN IDIOT!

He can’t keep any of his ‘cons’ going!

And, what con artist would have a mustache like that?!

On top of that, no style whatsoever. None. No polish. No pizzazz. No glitter. What an inept country hick.

And, you’re probably also right that he’s not particularly stupid.

HE’S JUST GENERALLY STUPID!

I shouldn’t get worked up about all this, but I’m just so easily offended by such rank stupidity. (and, by the fact that the networks gave this yahoo air time.) I’d be curious to know if there is ANYONE on the planet that takes this guy seriou…

…right, Afghanistan.

IDIOTS! IDIOTS! THEY’RE ALL…

Okay, so uh… anyone else? Anyone wanna’ stand up and say that this guy is the second coming maybe? Anyone here wanna’ join his church? Anyone won over by that fuzzy growth on his face?

If you do, I’ve got this five letter word for ya’.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to add that this guy has the charisma of a fruit bat.

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He IS an idiot.

He claims to believe in God and the bible. The bible lays down a set of morals and ethics that this Terry fellow chooses not to conform to. He claims to be a Christian which means that he claims to be a follower of Christ, who was a friend of the ‘dregs’ of society. Christ befriended all kinds of people, except one: arrogant, judgmental religious leadership (i.e., Pharisees - people like Terry Jones).

The fact that he’s set himself up as a ‘pastor’ means that (according to the bible) he will suffer even greater indemnity in the life to come.

If life eternal is your goal, why would you engage in activities that would endanger that?

Unless, of course, you’re an idiot.[/quote]
You are assuming that he actually believes in his religion and is not just using a religious veil to cheat and deceive people for his own benefit. Be it money, power, fame, ego or whatever. He seems like a cult leader to me, Anyway he does not strike me as being particulary stupid. Perhaps mad, crazy, deluded, scheming or many other adjective but not an idiot. So lets just agree to disagree on that. You could be right but I am not convinced he is stupid.[/quote]

Okay. I admit that he could be a complete con artist.

If he is… HE’S AN IDIOT!

He can’t keep any of his ‘cons’ going!

And, what con artist would have a mustache like that?!

On top of that, no style whatsoever. None. No polish. No pizzazz. No glitter. What an inept country hick.

And, you’re probably also right that he’s not particularly stupid.

HE’S JUST GENERALLY STUPID!

I shouldn’t get worked up about all this, but I’m just so easily offended by such rank stupidity. (and, by the fact that the networks gave this yahoo air time.) I’d be curious to know if there is ANYONE on the planet that takes this guy seriou…

…right, Afghanistan.

IDIOTS! IDIOTS! THEY’RE ALL…

Okay, so uh… anyone else? Anyone wanna’ stand up and say that this guy is the second coming maybe? Anyone here wanna’ join his church? Anyone won over by that fuzzy growth on his face?

If you do, I’ve got this five letter word for ya’.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to add that this guy has the charisma of a fruit bat.[/quote]
That was a funny post I admit but come on ease up on the mustache. What the hell is wrong with a mustache. I agree that the likes of David Koresh had much more charisma than this guy but there are likely a lot who disagree. CNN seems obsessed with him. Maybe Anderson Cooper has a crush on the guy.

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[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Continued from this locked thread:
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … &start=190

Here’s an update: Pastor Terry Jones did go ahead with his plans to burn the koran and it did lead to deaths, as warned/predicted.[/quote]

PZ Meyers must be proud of him.

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[color=#4000BF]Non-Controversial Christ Painting Under Fire From Art Community[/color]

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This guy seems to me like an attention seeker. He’s likely pretty well convinced of something, but confused about just what that is. He just needs the attention.

So, burning someone else’s religious material is just silly, IMO. It’s not doing anything to hurt you. And I’m a Christian. In MY Bible, it tells me that He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world. That would imply that I have nothing to fear from a Koran, or any other text. The Bible also directs us to love and to forgive–but hey, those bits can be a bit inconvient at times, right? Pfff!

I believe this guy was going to burn a bunch of Korans, but only burned one instead. Big deal. What’s the difference? What’s the need of any of it. It’s not like he’s heating his house.

But the rioters also seem like some people who just need some attention. In fact, if the burning hadn’t been filmed and uploaded to youtube, they’d never have known about it. If they didn’t know about it, they would have just gone about their every day lives instead of using this as an excuse to riot and have a big ol’ hate party of their own.

“I dont know you personally, but I hate your book, and I hate you, too!”

“Oh yeah? Well, I don’t know you either, but I hate you, and I’ll kill you and all your countrymen because you treated my book wih disrespect!”

It’s just idiot v/s idiot here. Sometimes I admit that I wish we could just let them wipe each other out without risking anyone else in the crossfire.

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By the way, I just want to take this moment to say that I may have been a bit harsh on fruit bats in a previous post.

I even have friends who are fruit bats.