Well, that’s one way to gain independence – get the recognition of the international powers. Kosovo has now been recognized by the US and by major EU powers (except Spain).
Taiwan has yet to do that.
Which underlines the importance of international recognition, something that some pro-Taiwan-independence supporters fail to understand. A sovereign state is not only about having your own government that has the monopolistic means to use legitimate physical force within its own borders, a distinct population, and its own bordered territory. Legitimacy through recognition is a key element that Taiwan is missing (and sorry, 23/24 small nations in the world is not enough), and until it gets recognition, Taiwan’s political situation is gray at best.
Kosovo meets the requirements. It has its own borders. It has a distinct people. It has a government that seems to have the monopolistic means to use physical force within its borders. And now it has been recognized by the global powers, and ultimately that will trickle down to the rest of the world. Kosovo, politically, meets the conditions to be a sovereign state.
So for those pro-independence-supporters who are looking to Kosovo as a model for Taiwanese independence, yes, there is a lesson to be learned. Get the world powers to recognize you officially, not only unofficially like they are doing now. Get a solid majority of the world to recognize you as a sovereign state.
It doesn’t matter if a DPP-controlled government continually declares that Taiwan is independent. That doesn’t hold weight anywhere except within Taiwan.
I liken it to a childhood club that my friends and I made up when we were kids. There were about 10 or 11 of us in this club. But there was this annoying kid (who no one liked) who wanted to be a part of the club, but we didn’t let him. Yet, he would continually think that he was a part of the club and proclaim to everyone that he was. No one believed him of course and he just ended up looking like the fool.
I hope Taiwan doesn’t end up looking like the fool.
I agree with cctang. If it wasn’t clear who can achieve independence and who cannot, international law notwithstanding, there should be no doubt now. I wouldn’t be so sanguine about it as this foolish and laughable Canadian “political scientist” who finds comfort in international law. Oh, it can happen just the same to any country. If Canada, or even the US, were as weak as Serbia, it would be trivial to rip them apart.
The US, being a state born out of exactly this kind of realist power struggle (France supporting colonial rebels), knows how this game is played, half-hearted lip service to the rule of law aside. China is not any dumber.
I think that is also a major part of the issue. There is not a critical mass of people in Taiwan that feel that they’re are oppressed and have no access to government.
There is no military actions in Taiwan against the populace either from ROC or PRC.
I really feel sorry for people looking to Kosovo as a solution. Because it is predicated on Taiwan society getting worst for a few generations, in hopes of a unilateral TI solution.
Yugoslavia under Tito was only loosely aligned with the Soviet Union. I would say that the rise of ethno-nationalism that precipitated / accompanied the fall of the USSR, led also to the break-up of Yugoslavia, of which Kosovo independence is the most recent development. Russia’s influence has actually been growing over the last five years, for various reasons including oil, U.S. military problems, and Putin’s personal genius.
[quote]Chinese anger over Taiwanese support for Kosovo
Taiwan News.Net
Monday 18th February, 2008
China has criticised Taiwan for its expression of support for Kosovo’s newfound independence.
It has angrily informed Taiwan that, as it is part of China, it has no right to give recognition to Kosovo.
The Taiwanese had earlier sent a message to the new Kosovan government to congratulate it for attaining ‘the fruits of independence, democracy and freedom.’
Communist China’s reaction is seen as a concern that Taiwan may be trying to launch its own independence push.
China and Taiwan split at the end of a civil war in 1949 and the mainland has vowed to eventually bring about reunification, by force if necessary.
China has already expressed concern over Kosovo’s declaration of independence, warning it could lead to instability in the Balkans.[/quote]
Does Taiwan have the support of a major power? Nope, if it declares independence, it stands alone (as we say in Spanish, he who pays for the dance, commands the music. Right now, China has US on a support line.).
Does Taiwan have a majority in congress that agrees -almost unanimously- in declaring independence? Nope. On the contrary.
Do we have a population willing and able to accept the consequence of these actions? Nope, we have the “strawberry generation”.
And of course, my favorite quote: “the situation in Kosovo is different from the one in Taiwan because the majority there is Albanian and here is Chinese”. Ah. Dong.
That and US exalting Kosovo’s democracy.
Hence, good for them in Kosovo, hope it turns out right. But comparing their situation to ours is nothing more than a nice academic exercise. International laws and all.
And China’s complains are only PR. Pity theirs is the only perspective heard internationally.
Taiwan can look at this situation like a poor boy staring at a storefront window full of goodies. With no money, no sale. No one will give him anything for free. No charity in this neighborhood.
Then a lady walks in, takes a cake, and gives it to another poor boy. He asks, why not me?
Sorry, nothing is free. The lady had run over the kid with her car, so now she helps him a bit. He is "different’, the situation is “different”. poor boy does not understand different, only hunger. But it has been hungry so long that he tells himself: I do not hunger anymore. So he has, so he will.
As I said, Taiwan can bolster diplomatic relationships with Kosovo (besides the money they already sent there) because China cannot afford to do so. It is a small step (and another one recognizing Taiwan) that can help both Kosovo and Taiwan. For Kosovo, it is an important trade partner, and probable source of FDI. It can also begin a diplomatic war, that can ultimately lead them to be recognized by the PRC, which can be a delightful turn of events. How will China deal with Kosovo can ultimately help Taiwan, either meaning one more partner, or one more hole in Great Wall of China…
Naturally, both sides have suffered atrocities by the radical elements of each. Churches and mosques have both been desecrated and destroyed, both Serbs and Albanians have been forcibly relocated. Such actions have been recorded since at least the 13th century, probably more as the Ottomans came in, more when locals converted, somestime voluntarily (and some for tax exemption status), leading all the way to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand by a Serb ultra-nationalist, the atrocities committed by Albanians in WW2, Serbs in WW1, etc. (as noted by SJ and others). It’s a case of an eye for an eye, and nothing will end.
The question is how will these people end the cycle? and can the major outside powers help them. It would have been nice of course, if some condition to supporting Kosovo independence is that the majority Albanians guarantee rights for its minorities (and we shall see if Kosovo does that on its own). Maybe like Czechs with Germans or Canucks with Quebecois.
and the crazy thing is, this is such a small population! We’re talking 2-4 million. That’s a size of a medium city. Why can’t they just get along?
Before we feel the jubilation of engaging with Kosovo, is there a lesson to be learnt from Macedonia, another Balkan republic that achieved independence in recent time.
[quote=“Asia Times”]Flashback : Macedonia - Taiwan lost gambit
Over the past 30 months the beleaguered Balkan republic, which China had been one of the first to recognize when it achieved independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, switched its allegiance to Taiwan, only to backtrack, leaving Taiwan with egg on its face
What possessed Taiwan to embark on the slippery path of Balkan politics relates to the realm of the irrational. Clearly, diplomatic relations with the beleaguered Macedonia would have had no impact whatsoever on the international standing of Taiwan. Conversely, it did have an impact on the purse of the island province. According to informed sources, adding loans, humanitarian assistance and project grants, Taiwan’s Macedonia venture cost its taxpayers $150 million. The return on this investment is a resounding zero[/quote]
Taiwan has made similar offers to many countries. Only a handful of them accepted, mainly the poorest and most despotic countries in Africa and Latin America. This is not good company to be in and it reflects the image of the country internationally
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Because it’s the Balkans. I mean, jeez, they even all speak the same language (the non-Albanian Yugoslavs). But when you are a people living in stalemate zones between major powers, (Austria-Hungary vs. Ottoman, also cf. EU vs. Russia in the Baltics, Russia vs. Middle East in the Caucuses), you will be forcibly partitioned into smithereens either by external pressure or externally fostered internal warfare. Smaller pieces are easier to manage for everyone.
Going back to China’s response, I was wondering about the chances of UN recognition for Kosovo. Rusia and China oppose them, US and France have said yes, leaving -AFAIK, only GB to decide.
If China rejects Kosovo, will that necessarily mean that it will push it into the ROC’s arms? China, after all, can always make things very difficult for Kosovo from the UN.
And as Beebee said, do we want our hands in this hornet’s nest? It will be an expensive and uncertain ordeal for both parties.
But China cannot go on acknowledging Kosovo without setting a dangerous precedent.
This is a very delicate situation where clearly the west (except for Spain) is pushing in one direction, and the old communist block pushing to another.
I suspect that important or sensitive decisions taken by Kosovo’s government are subject to review by their U.S. patrons. So I don’t expect any diplomatic breakthrough for Taiwan, at least not from this direction. (That will have to come later, from President Ma.)
Both the U.N. and the U.S. have been insisting that Kosovo respect its Serbian minority. That said, I see no reason why the Serbs near the border should not be allowed to hive off their area, and have it remain part of Serbia. I’m afraid the currently-fashionable political ideology favoring multinational states fundamentally fails to respect the will of almost any Balkan people except the gypsies.
lol… wouldn’t count on the Serbs to toe that line now, would we? And more…
Over all, I think this is a good situation for the Taiwan Strait situation, because it makes the people in the developed West confront a messy problem in their own backyard, lest they forget that there is always a separatist next door. You can see the fright in the words that Muslim-surrounded Englishmen leave on BBC’s forums.
If the KMT wins? Be in China… They are not that different, except that the people in EU choose their governments, while people in China, well… they seem to be happy with 5000 years of brutal civilization, don’t they?
