Laid off - what do I need to know, where to start

[cyberguppy]

Last Wednesday, management decided to lay off a few people in our sales department (freight forwarding industry) and I need to get a clearer understanding of the legal process.

Here are some quick facts.

1. Laid off notice last wednesday, asked to leave office by Friday. My manager (also laid off) told company that leave notice was too short. Company agreed to pay an extra 10 days in my case. I’ve worked there for 10 months now. I have an APRC.

2. Reason for layoff was restructuring and focussing on Asia market only. When our clients abroad(Europe + America) complained that our manager and I were leaving (manager told them), company wrote personal emails to clients saying that nothing was changing, some members were getting laid off for underperformace. A clear lie since my manager and I had the best sales performance at our company (200 and 250 % growth rates respectively) and our business has the highest profit margins, on average made about 4X my monthly salary per month ito profit. No performance targets were ever set(typical). Most other sales people have flat or negative performance. Seems like company wanted to take our hard development work and new clients and then get rid of us. Our company has promised to pay some of the end of year bonus (not sure when).

3. I planned to leave the company so I’m happy to be leaving (already packed and out). However, I am aware that there are legal repercussions to laying off staff in Taiwan but I’m not really sure where to check to make sure I’m duly compensated. My company will sign the layoff papers after 10 working days are up and will send to me.

Anyone know what checks I should make for to ensure due compensation. Like most companies here, they seem hellbent on screwing us (foreigners and Taiwanese) and pay as little as possible. Any good contacts in the Labor department I can work with too to double check the process?

Thanks in advance Forumosans!

[Markova]

since you can have 7 days vacations per working year, they will have to pay you those non-taken vacation’s days based on 10 months.

Being layoff they also have to pay you one month salary per every years you worked there, so in your case they will have to calculate it based on your 10 months.

That’s pretty much about it, since you already got 10 days notice.

Still it’s not cool from them to do it before CNY, did your contract mention a minimum year end bonus? Make sure they don’t screw you on it.

Good luck on your job’s hunt!

[cyberguppy]

Thanks!

Apparently those 7 days leave only apply from your second year onwards.

I think there may be more to it than that. Anyone know the website for the Labor department. I can only find this one which I remember is the wrong one:

english.dol.taipei.gov.tw/mp.asp?mp=116004

Need to give them a call and maybe set up a quick appointment if needed.

Also, it seems like my health insurance will come to an end with the employment so I’ll be in a spot of shit if I go see any doctors.

[Markova]

@cyberguppy

Thanks!

Apparently those 7 days leave only apply from your second year onwards.

No, since you worked there 10months, you are entitled to 5,8 days leave (7/12x10). Make sure they don’t BS you on this.

Maybe having an APRC, you can have access to more “rights” (jobless welfare…)?

[cyberguppy]

@Markova

@cyberguppy

Thanks!

Apparently those 7 days leave only apply from your second year onwards.

No, since you worked there 10months, you are entitled to 5,8 days leave (7/12x10). Make sure they don’t BS you on this.

Maybe having an APRC, you can have access to more “rights” (jobless welfare…)?

Correct! I need to find the CLA or labour dept here: google is sending me on the run around as there are like 5 labor websites and I can’t figure out where the foreigners have to go. I’ll have to dig deeper. Once I went to City Hall and they told me it was the wrong office.

I believe the office is in Dihua 迪化街 street but can’t seem to find that on the web。Eishh… this is how the chase always begins.

[Hokwongwei]

@Markova

since you can have 7 days vacations per working year

That’s incorrect. The Labor Standards Act says:

Where a worker continues to work for one same employer or business entity for a certain period of time, he/ she shall be granted annual paid leaves on an annual basis on the following basis:

1. Seven days for the services of more than one year but less than three years.

The employer is not legally obligated to offer a single day of leave in the first year of employment. (And none of mine ever have!) A few really generous employers will be humane about it and offer time off anyway, but most in the experience of me and my friends do not.

[Markova]

@Hokwongwei

@Markova

since you can have 7 days vacations per working year

That’s incorrect. The Labor Standards Act says:

Where a worker continues to work for one same employer or business entity for a certain period of time, he/ she shall be granted annual paid leaves on an annual basis on the following basis:

1. Seven days for the services of more than one year but less than three years.

The employer is not legally obligated to offer a single day of leave in the first year of employment. (And none of mine ever have!) A few really generous employers will be humane about it and offer time off anyway, but most in the experience of me and my friends do not.

Mmm it still doesn’t mean he cannot get his paid leaves paid to him based on the number of months he worked there on his first year.

We had to lay off several employees and some only worked there for few months and we did pay them their paid leaves.

[Icon]

@cyberguppy

@Markova

@cyberguppy

Thanks!

Apparently those 7 days leave only apply from your second year onwards.

No, since you worked there 10months, you are entitled to 5,8 days leave (7/12x10). Make sure they don’t BS you on this.

Maybe having an APRC, you can have access to more “rights” (jobless welfare…)?

Correct! I need to find the CLA or labour dept here: google is sending me on the run around as there are like 5 labor websites and I can’t figure out where the foreigners have to go. I’ll have to dig deeper. Once I went to City Hall and they told me it was the wrong office.

I believe the office is in Dihua 迪化街 street but can’t seem to find that on the web。Eishh… this is how the chase always begins.

I suspect it is the one where you process your Open Work Permit.
台北市中正區中華路一段39號10樓/11樓

[cyberguppy]

Had a quick look at google.

I think this is the possibly the one: goo.gl/maps/AXDYU

I’ll eventually figure it out.

[Hokwongwei]

@Markova

Mmm it still doesn’t mean he cannot get his paid leaves paid to him based on the number of months he worked there on his first year.

We had to lay off several employees and some only worked there for few months and we did pay them their paid leaves.

That’s assuming the company offered him any leave in the first place, which they were not legally obligated to do. OP, did they?

[mad_masala]

Cyberguppy, I could send you a contact if you still need it. I also know more or less the location…

[Markova]

@Hokwongwei

@Markova

Mmm it still doesn’t mean he cannot get his paid leaves paid to him based on the number of months he worked there on his first year.

We had to lay off several employees and some only worked there for few months and we did pay them their paid leaves.

That’s assuming the company offered him any leave in the first place, which they were not legally obligated to do. OP, did they?

He isn’t able to use his 7 paid leaves on the first year but he is entitled to get it paid to him if he is lay off.

It takes 1 year of works to build up 7 paid leaves so the amount paid to him will be based on the amount of time he worked there.

It’s just common sense to me and thats what we do in my company.

[Hokwongwei]

Yeah, but that’s in your company. I’ve never heard of any company doing this because you’re entitled to zero days your first year and they only start to exist your second year. There is no reason they should pay you for vacation time you don’t have.

[Markova]

@Hokwongwei

you’re entitled to zero days your first year

That’s because you have to work to earn those paid leaves. 1 month of work earn you 7/12= 0,58 day.

So since he already worked 10 months he is entitled to 0,58x10= 5,8 days.

He worked for it, so to me he has to get it paid.

Does anyone else have an experience to confirm or not this issue?

[cfimages]

You have to work 12 months before you’re eligible for leave. There’s no pro-rata before that - if you haven’t worked 12 months, the company doesn’t have to give you any leave. That first year of employment has no paid leave. The second year starts at 7 days.

[mad_masala]

@Markova

@Hokwongwei

you’re entitled to zero days your first year

That’s because you have to work to earn those paid leaves. 1 month of work earn you 7/12= 0,58 day.

So since he already worked 10 months he is entitled to 0,58x10= 5,8 days.

He worked for it, so to me he has to get it paid.

Does anyone else have an experience to confirm or not this issue?

I do think that you are right, although it sounds to me that it’s kinda open for the company to define the “how” and “when”. I got better conditions, being able to enjoy those 7 days within the first year.

[Hokwongwei]

You don’t earn it by the month, you earn it by the year. The breakdown according to the Labor Standards Act is:

Year 1: Zero days
Year 2: 7 days
Year 3: 7 days
Year 4: 10 days
Year 5: 10 days
Year 6: 14 days
Year 7: 14 days
Year 8: 14 days
Year 9: 14 days
Year 10: 14 days

+1 per year after that, up to 30, and then your employer never has to give you any more. So for most people, they don’t get a full month of leave until working in the same company for 26 years.

Considering how arbitrary it is, there is no reason to believe that you earn vacation days by the month.

[Markova]

@Hokwongwei

You don’t earn it by the month, you earn it by the year. The breakdown according to the Labor Standards Act is:

Year 1: Zero days
Year 2: 7 days
Year 3: 7 days
Year 4: 10 days
Year 5: 10 days
Year 6: 14 days
Year 7: 14 days
Year 8: 14 days
Year 9: 14 days
Year 10: 14 days

+1 per year after that, up to 30, and then your employer never has to give you any more. So for most people, they don’t get a full month of leave until working in the same company for 26 years.

Considering how arbitrary it is, there is no reason to believe that you earn vacation days by the month.

So for you, if I was to work 18 months without having used any of my paid leaves and be fired, how many paid leaves should my company pay me?

Anyway, I strongly recommend OP to ask For his 5,8 paid-leaves. Even if they refuse it to you at first, be strict and stand for it because I’m sure they will just pay it to you. No one like to fire staff so if they can make you happy with 5 paid leaves they will.

[mad_masala]

I recommend him to go to the labour office FOR FOREIGNERS, which is in the sdame building than the fabric/clothes market, which is here if I’m right: google.com.tw/maps/@25.0544 … !2e0?hl=en

[Markova]

@mad_masala

I recommend him to go to the labour office FOR FOREIGNERS, which is in the sdame building than the fabric/clothes market, which is here if I’m right: google.com.tw/maps/@25.0544 … !2e0?hl=en

Yes and please report back.