Lazy Officials


#1

Ok I am going to make this topic short. I hope you can all bare with me on this especially my fellow ABC’s. Why is that you cannot get out of Taiwan even for a day if you are applying for the Taiwan ID. What if your dad is dying in the US? What if you have be hospitalized and you want your doctor from back home? Do you really have to stay here for 365 days? You see I have been here for at least a year but since I went to France to use the Blue Card to exit the country and had to get in the country so I could exchange the stamped Blue Card to get my resident’s ID. What is this going and coming thing? Can’t the government just count the months I have been here and the months I was here after coming back from France? This letter might sound weird to you guys…sorry I am just so confuse about the lazy immigration people here in Taiwan. They told me last year that it is ok to go out but now it is not. They are not doing their job well or should I say they do not know what they are doing?


#2

I do not fully follow your story - but as far as I can tell you are “trapped” in Taiwan while your documents are being processed for any reason.

If you want to go - sure you can go - just plan to restart your entry process as if you have never been here before - perhaps with some additional twists.

I can think of a lot of words to describe this situation - lazy is not one - the people processing the documents are just following the rules - some of which they might interpret themselves. Over-energetic rather than lazy.


#3

Be happy you’re ethnically Chinese. Otherwise you’d have to renounce your original citizenship before gaining an ROC ID card.


#4

To Rian,I suppose you are not feeling what I am feeling now about the ROC ID. The thing why I am ranting is why did the immigration people did not check on their PC’s when I went there weeks ago to make it sure the exact date I can get the ROC ID. You do not have any idea why I am disappointed about it. I respect your opinion that they are not lazy and so on and so on but you cannot make me and anybody who’s also in my position to change our view (fact) about the immig. people. I will not waste the things I left behind and gave up by going out of the country so there is no need to think about going out anywhere.

Poagao, thank you for the replying to my topic. Yes I am Chinese by blood and flesh but not in my heart because I do my job well and I do not lie like the people here. I do not have to renounce or dump my other citizenship because I came in here with an overseas Chinese status. In other words, I will soon have dual citizenship.

I do not see any reason why we cannot get out of Taiwan when we are pure Chinese what if we need to under go for an operation abroad because of whatever reason? What if your Dad or Mom is back home and dying? I think what the government is doing is very humane.


#5
quote:
Originally posted by : You cannot make me and anybody who's also in my position to change our view (fact) about the immig. people.

Poagao, thank you for the replying to my topic. Yes I am Chinese by blood and flesh but not in my heart because I do my job well and I do not lie like the people here. I do not have to renounce or dump my other citizenship because I came in here with an overseas Chinese status. In other words, I will soon have dual citizenship.

I do not see any reason why we cannot get out of Taiwan when we are pure Chinese what if we need to under go for an operation abroad because of whatever reason? What if your Dad or Mom is back home and dying? I think what the government is doing is very humane.


“Our view (fact)”…that’s great! But didn’t you just contradict yourself when you said you only look Chinese but aren’t really because you’re an honest, upright person…and then described yourself as “we who are pure Chinese”? So you’re Chinese enough to get dual citizenship but not Chinese enough to lie and be lazy?

If there’s an emergency, if your parents are dying, if you have to have an operation, that’s the most important thing. You can live without dual citizenship (as I’ve been doing, and I’m fine) for a little while longer as you take care of more important things.


#6

To Poagao,

I do not ought to explain myself to anybody including you. If you are confuse about if I am Chinese or not well sorry. Your life or whatsoever status here in Taiwan is absolutely different from mine, you got no any idea what I’ve been through in processing different stuff for the TWN ID so stop or cease rather in contradicting the topic. I wrote the topic to get advice and not be critisize or to get sermon. ok? Cheers!!!


#7

Lady Judge - I don’t think it is “off-topic” to question certain statements you have made or to ask you to clarify your statements. Welcome to the club if you find that immigration and visa laws are often arbitrary and inflexible. BTW, why do you say “fellow ABCs” in your original posting. By ABC, don’t you mean “American Born Chinese?” I find this strange, because you were obviously not born in the US. I guess you were born in France and meant overseas Chinese.


#8

Poagao,

I couldn’t help but make a few “observations” here:

Why do people (who already have a citizenship from an advanced country such as the US or Canada = ABC/CBC) have such high minded expectations about the process of getting an ID or passport (citizenship) from Taiwan? An obviously less advanced country.

And why is it so important to get a Taiwan citizenship for those who already have an overseas citizenship of such advanced countries? Dual citizenship?

Is a simple PR or work permit that difficult to obtain?

Why is there also an immediate implicit assumption that such applications when coming from such advanced countries ie an ABC or a CBC , are harmless and should be processed without much checking?

Perhaps you might like to explain or
enlighten me on these.

I on the other hand am used to looking at the problem from a Chinese “third world” point of view.

The fact that Taiwan is allowing all Chinese regardless of origins to gain a Taiwanese citizenship to me is already an incredible honour or privilege.

That is how I look at all opportunities to become citizens of a country unless I personally cannot stand the country then I would not be applying in the first place.

One is always tempted to look at a passport especially a second passport as a convenient vehicle for making a better living but this was not the real intention of granting citizenships.

In this day and age, many overseas Chinese could still have a ‘whole bag’ of reasons for wanting to enter Taiwan and become a Taiwanese citizen. I can think of the following:

a) spying for China/PRC
b) economic reasons from say leaving a desperately down country: eg Thailand…
c) persecutions in their ‘home’ country eg Indonesia, Philipines, Malaysia,
d) as a “stepping stone” to live in a third more prosperous country : US, Canada, even China… (You can’t get into China to work if you are say holding a Myanmar passport for example and Yunnan is doing a flourising trade with its border countries)

Is Taiwan’s passport/citizenship process particularly bureaucratic and silly compared to some other SE Asian countries?

I would definitely say no. There are also many countries in Asia who would not even consider your application based solely on your colour of skin or your ethnic origin. What is a Han Chinese afterall? There are about 100 million outside of China

On such a ubiquitous qualification alone, I would say there are very few countries in Asia except Taiwan, that would even consider such an application.

Singapore citizenship albeit much easier now than previously because of the economic downturn there, declining birth rate of existing Han Chinese population and the recent govt policy changes, still requires the party applying to remain in Singapore whilst the passport is being issued or processed. ( 3-5 months in practice) And before arriving to this “final” stage the person is required to renounced all other citizenships and therefore travel documents.

Taiwan is generous by comparison as I understand from above, and does not require any such renouncements. Taiwan is of course also like an American colony, and I am sure citizen of Big Brother are looked upon more favourably than citizens coming from other less powerful nations.

Singapore is considered an extremely advanced country (IT wise and the usual std of living indicators) and hyper-efficient and bi-lingual. It’s living standard on average is still higher than Taiwan and all told it still requires about 3 months for the whole process to be cleared.

Are there exceptions for visiting dead relatives? and last minute holiday plans? Oh sure, all exceptions are considered by letter to the Director of Immigration. But this will most likely delay your application. They will even ask you to use your old passport and such like.

But again why this lengthy wait? Well I can only suggest that they are not shoving your application to one corner of their vast computerised bureaucracy but in fact checking on your background more thoroughly with Interpol for any last minute indications, to make sure that you are not some sort of criminal/terrorist element or another US scholar like Gao Zhan and Li XiaoMin and who want to do a reverse “scholarship” for China.

All countries have a right to do this sort of lengthy checking before granting citizenship; afterall thay are letting in an unknown quantity, based in some cases solely on looks and skin colour and what you tell them.

Singapore is “neutral” as far as the China and Taiwan strait problems go but people could still get into Taiwan or China easier afterwards. It would be less conspicuous.


#9

Ladyjudge,
obviously, the Taiwan government feels that if it gives you a Taiwan ID, you should be living here.
Its unfortunate for you that you left the country on vacation (is that correct?)because it seems that you now have to begin the process all over again.
The immigration authorities are under no obligation to explain the rules – its up to YOU to make sure you know the regulations. Especially in Taiwan, you should make sure you see the information IN WRITING, as people in authority are very reluctant to “lose face” by admitting they don’t know the answer to your question and will often just tell you what they think you want to hear in order to get you out of their face.
Remember, the immigration people have heard every kind of sob story under the sun – probably many times – so as far as they are concerned, you left the country too early and will have to begin the process again, although I’m sure there are official channels for recourse on a case-by-case basis.
If you were smart enough to get the business card or a chop from the immigration official who misinformed you, then there might be a chance for you, as this clearly sounds like an honest mistake on your part.
Good luck


#10

BTW, Lady Judge, you asked why the immigration authorities have this rule – the answer is that they have a problem with overseas Chinese coming to Taiwan, completing the ROC ID paperwork and then leaving immediately, i.e. they have no intention of ever actually living in Taiwan but want that second passport.
I guess the government feels that if you want an ROC ID, you should at least live here. Not so strange, if you ask me. At least you CAN have two passports if you want – and for no reason other than that you have yellow skin. How unfair is THAT?


#11
quote:
Originally posted by : To Poagao,

I do not ought to explain myself to anybody including you. If you are confuse about if I am Chinese or not well sorry. Your life or whatsoever status here in Taiwan is absolutely different from mine, you got no any idea what I’ve been through in processing different stuff for the TWN ID so stop or cease rather in contradicting the topic. I wrote the topic to get advice and not be critisize or to get sermon. ok? Cheers!!!


I don’t think I’m the one who’s confused here about whether you’re Chinese or not. But anyway, sorry to “contradict the topic” as you put it.

I went through a great deal in gaining my Taiwanese ID, actually, although it’s true I don’t know what your experiences are.

I would also assume that the ROC government, in addition to wanting the people it grants citizenship to to actually live here for a while, would also like the people to whom it grants citizenship to, how do I put this… not despise the ROC and Chinese people in general? Or maybe I am assuming too much here.

(PS: David K, I assume you are addressing Ladyjudge, not me. She’s the one with the ID problem. Sorry if I caused you any confusion.)


#12

First of all sorry guys I don’t read long replies to this topic at all. Honestly, I just glance at long replies. Well, I’ll try to reply as much as I can. BTW, please concentrate to the topic about Taiwan law and not on me being mad about the scenario. Let us use the space with relevant responses ok?
To Chainsmoker
Why in this weird world would you think for sure I am not ABC and I am from France? I never said I went home to France right? Well, whether I am ABC or not it is not important in this topic. Again, can we just concentrate on the real topic, my friends?

To David K
Hey…it is me who started the topic my friend. The lady judge. By the way your reply is too long. I didn’t want to read too long replies sorry.

To Sandman
I suggest you read the main topic again. Apparently you don’t seem to understand what I am ranting about. You see the question is…why can’t they allow people in my position to leave Taiwan even for a week. And why is that they don’t allow overseases Chinese to work. We are all Chinese and we all have the right to live and work in any Chinese country we want. If they will have a discrimination on this matter then they should not be re-united as one.

To Paogao
Well, I guess you know at least a little bit what I am ranting about since you have been in such confusing situation yourself before.

To all of you
Chinese or not by passport as long as our parents are Chinese by blood we are still Chinese in the eyes of the whole world we just happened to have the opportunity to live else where and not here. Taiwan, China or Hong Kong does not have the right to deny any single Chinese person of a Chinese legal identity. Who else would help the Chinese but us our own people. You, him, her and we might not be Chinese in our hearts but we are certainly not embarass to admit we come from the Chinese decent. ok?


#13

Lady Judge,
You want advice but you don’t want to read “long” replies? This suggests that you are a total moron. You probably didn’t bother to read the immigration rules because “they were too long.” You think I don’t understand your post? You’re damn right I don’t! Why don’t you ask a friend who can write in English to help you?
Why can’t you leave for a week? Read my lips, moron. The answer is in my post. Again, ask an English-speaking friend to help you if you can’t manage by yourself.

You arrogant little twat.
Go back to Murka and grow up.


#14

I think this thread has mutated into an episode from the twilight zone. Lady Judge is either nuts or a troll. Just in case you are real Ms. Judge, I apologize for guessing that you were from France. I thought maybe you were from there because in your first post you mentioned going to France. I ask where you are from because I have a hunch that you were born in Taiwan, moved to the US, got a passport and are pissed that you have rules to follow. If I am wrong, please correct me. BTW, if this is a troll, it is a work of art.


#15

Lady Judge

It seems to me that your inability or unwillingness to “read long replies” - particularly when they are replies to a rant or question YOU started - could in fact be part of the reason why you are in this situation with immigration in the first place.

Did you actually READ any of the forms that were given to you at the time of application, or were they just too long for you to bother with?

You are just pissed off because you have to follow the rules like many people before you, and I daresay, many after you. Well, sorry, but until you prove your case and yourself to be worthy of such exceptional treatment, you’ll just have to handle the situation as every other (Chinese) person has. One hopes you’ll manage to do this with a little more grace and good humor than you are currently exhibiting.


#16

To Sandman,
First of all I am not a moron! You are the moron! Why the hell should I take advice from somebody who does not work for the government or from somebody who cannot even prove his statements? huh? I guess you do you idiotic moron! Besides my question is what if your relative is dying wouldn’t they still let you out? It is your nonsense and long reply that didn’t make sense at all that is why I didn’t read it all. How about the rules written? Well guess what? The rules doesn’t say anything what one can do if a relative dies. You’re the one who has to read my original post again. I mentioned there that they told me it’s ok to go out and starting the process all over again was not even mentioned to me. An English-speaking friend? Well, I’d rather ask somebody like you to help me than any of my friends. Do not ask me why because the topic is about the law and nothing else. Remember this Sandman " I will bring you with me to Murka by hook or by crook."

To Chain Smoker
There is only one thing I want to let you know " I like trolls ". PS. It doesn’t matter where I am from, contrate on the main topic ok?

To Hmmmmmm
Let me tell you something. Taiwan changes their rules all the time. The rules printed on a piece of paper are not always applicable or existing anymore because they change the rules. Of course I am pissed because of this and that given by the government here. Just like what I told Sandman "why should you take the advice of somebody who is not even updated with the laws and who does not even work for Taiwan immigration? I think you also have to come with me and Sandman to Murka, we will have so much fun there.


#17

LadyJudge, the answer to your problems is this:

^Suck it up or leave^. Very simple.

Please stop wasting everyone’s time.

Thank you.


#18

Duuuuuuuh. What the hell was she saying there? Anyone?

“Why the hell should I take advice from somebody who does not work for the government?”

Why the hell did YOU ask US for ADVICE, then? Moron.


#19

To Nirvana
Why reply to my topic if you’re saying “stop wasting everybody’s time” ?
You should shut up not me. I will talk as long as I want ok? And who are you to tell me to leave or stay huh? Buy me a ticket back to Sweden then I’ll leave.

To Sandman
Honestly, I like reading your reply cause you give me funny replies. I do not know you but I can imagine you getting pissed by my topic. And I never asked for ordinary or common advise especially from you. If you cannot say something relevant to my topic don’t reply or better yet do not read it ok? You are the one who is moron and not me. You are funny though!


#20
quote:
Originally posted by : To Poagao, I wrote the topic to get advice and not be critisize or to get sermon. ok? Cheers!!!

OK. Cheers.

quote[quote]Why is that you cannot get out of Taiwan even for a day if you are applying for the Taiwan ID. [/quote]

My reply:

quote[quote] Lady Judge, you asked why the immigration authorities have this rule -- the answer is that they have a problem with overseas Chinese coming to Taiwan, completing the ROC ID paperwork and then leaving immediately, i.e. they have no intention of ever actually living in Taiwan but want that second passport.[/quote]

Which words don’t you understand here?

quote[quote] What if your dad is dying in the US? What if you have be hospitalized and you want your doctor from back home? Do you really have to stay here for 365 days? [/quote]

My reply:

quote[quote] Remember, the immigration people have heard every kind of sob story under the sun -- probably many times -- so as far as they are concerned, you left the country too early and will have to begin the process again, although I'm sure there are official channels for recourse on a case-by-case basis. [/quote]

Wrong answer? Moronic? I don’t think so.
As you can see, I answered ALL your questions quite simply and politely, I think, except for your last question about whether you should say the immigration people don’t know what they’re doing? I don’t have an answer for that one, you’ll have to decide for yourself.

I apologize for my digs about your poor English, but I didn’t know you are from Sweden (although it must be said that most of the Scandinavians I’ve met have had a far better command of English than most of the Americans its been my great good fortune to meet).
I also find your posts funny, though, so… peace? OK? Cheers?

P.S. I really hope you get your immigration problem sorted out soon.