Has anyone had any experience with learning Cantonese after there Mandarin was proficient or even learning both together?
Before I came to Taiwan I used to speak a bit of Cantonese with my wife’s family. Now, as I speak
English with my wife, My Canto has disappeared.
I want to pick it up again but maybe should wait till my Mandarin is fairly fluent.
Any ideas?
Yes, I studied Cantonese and Mandarin at the same time for a year or two, after having completed at least 1.5 years of intensive independent study Mandarin. That was 14 years ago, and I don’t recall having trouble doing that, other than having less time to spend on each, although sometimes a tone would slip in from the other language. 
I’d say give it a shot, if you want to, and stop if you find yourself getting confused. 
I learned Cantonese for all of three days from tapes in Beijing way back in 1980. I got really excited about it and was doing it all day, every day. Then my throat gave out and I quit. I’ve never taken it up again, but I still remember what I learned, and have used it occasionally. One of my Cantonese friends says I sound like a Northerner trying to talk Cantonese. I took it as a compliment that she said I sounded like a Northerner, not a foreigner.
Cantonese is a bit closer to Mandarin than Taiwanese/Hokkien is, so easier to learn than Hokkien if you know some Mandarin already.
What’s your motivation for learning Cantonese? What do you want to do with it?
Yes. Both Mandarin and Cantonese are descended from Middle Chinese, whereas Min split off from Late Han Chinese many centuries earlier.
Yes, if one could be arsed, it would be a fairly easy step to take from Mandarin. Indeed I find that despite my best efforts not to acquire any Canto, and instead make those silly duck quackers speak real Chinese, I have picked up a little here and there, enough to disgust myself at least. I think if I was in Guangdong, where the local people are poorer in general but somewhat more palatable, I might make some kind of effort. but certainly not here in HK. There are standards to maintain, after all.
By and large the only white faces around these parts that speak Canto with any flourish are currently serving or former police officers. Rather than endearing oneself with the locals with your fine Canto quackerry, you’re more likely to instill a certain degree of fear and loathing. And thus it is with these people. There can be no half measures, no quarter given. The civilising mission must remain the foremost of our daily challenges. The only two phrases worth knowing are diu lei ma and gweilo, hearing both in the same sentence requires a prompt thrashing, no questions asked and certainly no apologies given.
HG
diu - an interesting word. The Middle Chinese word “tieu” (鳥) meant “bird”. Then over the centuries it acquired the taboo meaning of “penis” (as a noun) or “fuck” (as a verb). Because of this taboo, the initial consonant of the word for “bird” was changed to “n” in Cantonese and Mandarin (but not in the Wu or Min dialects, or in Hakka). The original term remains a cuss word: diu in Cantonese, and diao (屌) in Mandarin. And on top of this, the Mandarin word “niao” is also slang for “penis”.
For some strange reason I really like the language.
Also, my wife and her family speak it.
diu - an interesting word. The Middle Chinese word “tieu” (鳥) meant “bird”. Then over the centuries it acquired the taboo meaning of “penis” (as a noun) or “fuck” (as a verb). Because of this taboo, the initial consonant of the word for “bird” was changed to “n” in Cantonese and Mandarin (but not in the Wu or Min dialects, or in Hakka). The original term remains a cuss word: diu in Cantonese, and diao (屌) in Mandarin. And on top of this, the Mandarin word “niao” is also slang for “penis”.[/quote]
Chris and Dragon bones. Where did you guys study Cantonese ( and Mandarin for that matter).
I want your skills…
A recent blog post by Chinese language professor Victor Mair seems to suggest that knowing Mandarin isn’t really going to help you to speak Cantonese. It’s buried down in the comments section where he says his native Mandarin speaking wife, when they lived in Hong Kong for a year, didn’t pick up a single word of Cantonese.
My experience differs. To answer OP’s question, I learned most of my Cantonese alongside Mandarin, although my Mandarin had a big head start. Watching HK movies, TV shows, and then trying it out on my unwilling univ. classmates from Hong Kong is how I got started. Living in Canada, the only native feedback I could get at the time was from them. Since your wife speaks it, you should take advantage of that resource.
His missus probably picked up some Tagalog instead. But actually, almost all the native mando speakers I know in HK end up with passable, if not fluency in Canto within a few years. I guess it’s who you mix with. Some of the differences are quite consistent, although don’t try and guess is my warning. Ji invariably becomes gei, but gei lou is not, what floor?, but rather “gay boy”, apparently, or so I learned in a cramped angry lift.
As a footnote, it simply doesn’t pay to be courteous to these people, they’ll only see it as a sign of weakness and a reason to attack. No, one must beat first and lamely apologise later if needed, which is rarely ever in any case.
HG
[quote=“jimisgek”]Chris and Dragon bones. Where did you guys study Cantonese ( and Mandarin for that matter).
I want your skills…[/quote]
You don’t want my Cantonese skills. They eroded to dust long ago. Like Mandarin, I self-studied (intensively). I began, if I recall right, when I was stuck in Hong Kong on a visa run, and the visa didn’t come through for several weeks. I picked up study materials there, and on my return to Taiwan put up a sign down by Shida looking for an LE. I met a friend from Macau that way and did an LE for perhaps 1.5 years before she moved back home. I did about 6-7 trips to Hong Kong, plus a few on return from China. I haven’t really tried to use it since around 1998, except once when I got pulled over by Taibei cops and I babbled Cantonese at them. Flustered, one of them actually tried speaking a few words of Cantonese back, but gave up, and they let me go without a ticket. 
Mandarin, I self-studied intensively in Ohio with a lot of help from Ohio State’s excellent self-study tape and book program, and very little help from the Sichuan GF I had at the time. Then I decided in 1994 to move to Taibei for immersion, and moved in with a young Taiwanese couple who spoke virtually no English. I lived with them 5.5 years, during which I used tapes, books, dictionaries, and LE, and spent a LOT of time wandering the streets chatting with strangers. I worked my way through the local elementary texts for Mandarin, then some comics and small novels and so on. Now I’m married to a local, still living in the same neighborhood as in 1994, and enjoying life. There are other 'mosans whose Mandarin is much better than mine, though – some keep it sharp by doing translation work, for instance. Mine has oxidized a bit, recently. 
I hear that’s what happens when you read too much bronzeware inscriptions.
How true. Perhaps living in the posh apartments of mid-level, she decides to go down the escalators to mix with the locals, only to stumble upon a gaggle of ladies congregating at a concrete park in Central near sundown. She makes friends, learns their language, but finds it strange that her “Cantonese” is only understood within the confines of the park. Surprisingly, she finds her live-in maid to suddenly speak excellent Cantonese.
So were you being helpful in the lift by asking “gei lou?”, at which point the scrawny young man sandwiched next to you hands you a note scribbled with a room number in Kowloon Tong?
For those interested, “gei lau” is 幾樓 (which floor) while “gei lou” is 基佬 (gay man), where “lou” is the same as the “lo” in gweilo.
I think learning Cantonese is easier once you have your Mandarin down. But Cantonese does not co-exist with Taiwanese. I picked up on Cantonese from some HK friends and movies much easier than I do Taiwanese, and now I can’t speak either but only a strange hybrid not to be understood by anybody. 
How true. Perhaps living in the posh apartments of mid-level, she decides to go down the escalators to mix with the locals, only to stumble upon a gaggle of ladies congregating at a concrete park in Central near sundown. She makes friends, learns their language, but finds it strange that her “Cantonese” is only understood within the confines of the park. Surprisingly, she finds her live-in maid to suddenly speak excellent Cantonese.
So were you being helpful in the lift by asking “gei lou?”, at which point the scrawny young man sandwiched next to you hands you a note scribbled with a room number in Kowloon Tong?
For those interested, “gei lau” is 幾樓 (which floor) while “gei lou” is 基佬 (gay man), where “lou” is the same as the “lo” in gweilo.[/quote]
I made the mistake of trying to be polite, which of course anyone who has ridden a lift in HK, ie, not been perturbed when some bastard hit close and slammed the door in their face, would immediately understand as a mad act. He, erh, smiled at me. I refer you back to lift behaviour in HK, so I think I accidently got it right.
HG
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
I made the mistake of trying to be polite, which of course anyone who has ridden a lift in HK, ie, not been perturbed when some bastard hit close and slammed the door in their face, would immediately understand as a mad act. [color=#BF0000]He, erh, smiled at me.[/color] I refer you back to lift behaviour in HK, so I think I accidently got it right.
HG[/quote]
Hahahaha… This is just hilarious. :roflmao: