Now that I am back in Taipei and will probably be stuck here for at least 6 months I want to do it right and take up Chinese again.
I went to a group class last year, 3 months / 5 days a weak @ 2 hours each. While we had a lot of fun I didn’t really learn anything and started struggling around half way after which I couldn’t keep up anymore.
By now I have forgotten most of it, can only remember some very basic things.
Thus I think I would like to take up private classes with a fixed schedule (though certain flexibility should be ensured), perhaps 3 times a week.
I am not good at learning languages and feel more comfortable when I can visualize the words, so character reading and writing should have a high priority (in the group class it wasn’t at all). I do like the writing anyhow, so I am pretty motivated on that one.
I am aware that some claim you should learn to speak first but I am not in a rush, so I wouldn’t mind if the whole process takes a bit longer because of the reading & writing.
So can anyone recommend a good & professional teacher, available after office hours (6:30pm onwards) at a fair rate?
I am not interested in language exchange at this time.
[quote=“Rascal”]I think I would like to take up private classes with a fixed schedule (though certain flexibility should be ensured), perhaps 3 times a week.
I am not good at learning languages and feel more comfortable when I can visualize the words, so character reading and writing should have a high priority (in the group class it wasn’t at all).[/quote]
hi Rascal,
My advice is, if you’re interested in writing, don’t wait for anyone to teach you how to do it. Pick up a copy of the writing companion booklet to the standard Shida Audio Visual Chinese , it’s a thin paperback, with about 20 chapters, around 16 characters each. It’s awesome, I used it to teach myself how to read/write.
It’s not important to be in sync with the main book. Just go at your own pace, spend 45 minutes each night going thru the exercises. Really go thru them. Follow the stroke order to draw each character 5 times. Do the drills where you transcribe Chinese to English and vica versa, then read your sentences out loud. If you do just one chapter a week, you’ll have a solid foundation of 300 common characters by the end of the year, and you’ll have the skills to write a whole bunch of other characters, by recalling the patterns you already learned.
Best of all, you will it by yourself, without some poor soul feeling himself get old as he watches over your shoulder. In the classroom, I’d still recommend you focus more on conversation.
Sorry I didn’t recommend a private teacher, I do know a good one, but he likes to go off on tangents about the origin of characters, which might be overkill. But let me know if you’re interested.
Yeah, but will he know how to speak and understand Chinese, or merely to write characters?
I think what Rascal was saying was that he wanted a class that used her visual orientation to help her learn Chinese as a whole (correct me if I’m wrong)…this does not necessarily mean solely writing on her own, but having the whole process of learning Chinese supported, perhaps to a greater extent than for most people, with visual cues.
[There, I’ve done a sex change via the Internet through the power of editing. Hope that’s better, Rascal. I guess I’ve been reading so much Chinese that I can no longer distinguish between “he” and “she”. )
I believe that Rachel is Rascal, and she is actually a he .
My advice to Rascal: work with a native German or English speaker, someone who has had to learn Mandarin as a second language, but who has learned it very well.
I have no idea how to find someone like that, save by asking ironlady, who seems not only to walk in, but to lead those circles.
I personally learned Mandarin without formal instruction, but used texts for structure. I always had a more experienced non-native, fluent speaker around, and I was highly motivated, so I didn’t need a teacher.
I stand by my recommendation, not just for Rascal but for anyone.
I don’t think it’s productive to dwell too much on the different “needs” and “learning styles” of an individual. Sure not everyone is built the same, but I believe that discipline is a more important factor in getting results than analyzing how differently our brains are wired, and custom-crafting learning methods to it. Specifically, I don’t buy into the notion that someone needs to rely more on “visual aids” than others, unless there is an extreme circumstance, such as their being deaf.
Ain’t no shortcuts – so just sign up for a class, and get enough sleep each night and bring a sharp pencil to class each day.
What is this ‘my Chinese class has to be an expression of my individuality’ thing? What happened to good old discipline? What crawled up my ass anyway? :?
[quote=“mangalica”]I don’t think it’s productive to dwell too much on the different “needs” and “learning styles” of an individual. Sure not everyone is built the same, but I believe that discipline is a more important factor in getting results than analyzing how differently our brains are wired, and custom-crafting learning methods to it. Specifically, I don’t buy into the notion that someone needs to rely more on “visual aids” than others, unless there is an extreme circumstance, such as their being deaf.
Ain’t no shortcuts – so just sign up for a class, and get enough sleep each night and bring a sharp pencil to class each day.
What is this ‘my Chinese class has to be an expression of my individuality’ thing? What happened to good old discipline? What crawled up my ass anyway? :?[/quote]
Sheesh…obviously you have never taught, or at least never taught well.
If you only care that students occupy seats and make some progress, what you say is fine. But if you want to maximize language acquisition and use resources efficiently, then the teacher has a responsibility to know the research on language acquisition, on pedagogy, and so forth, and to USE it in the classroom. If you say the teacher has no such responsibility, then you are saying the teacher is merely a native speaking informant, and that any native speaker could teach a language. IMHO a teacher has a professional obligation to do his or her job to the best of his/her ability, which includes getting and remaining current with the research and applying it to the classroom.
“Good enough” is the enemy of the best. And teachers who say “the students just aren’t working” are the enemy of language acquisition.
[quote=“mangalica”]I don’t think it’s productive to dwell too much on the different “needs” and “learning styles” of an individual. Sure not everyone is built the same, but I believe that discipline is a more important factor in getting results than analyzing how differently our brains are wired, and custom-crafting learning methods to it. Specifically, I don’t buy into the notion that someone needs to rely more on “visual aids” than others, unless there is an extreme circumstance, such as their being deaf.
Ain’t no shortcuts – so just sign up for a class, and get enough sleep each night and bring a sharp pencil to class each day.
What is this ‘my Chinese class has to be an expression of my individuality’ thing? What happened to good old discipline? What crawled up my ass anyway? :?[/quote]
Sheesh…obviously you have never taught, or at least never taught well.
If you only care that students occupy seats and make some progress, what you say is fine. But if you want to maximize language acquisition and use resources efficiently, then the teacher has a responsibility to know the research on language acquisition, on pedagogy, and so forth, and to USE it in the classroom. If you say the teacher has no such responsibility, then you are saying the teacher is merely a native speaking informant, and that any native speaker could teach a language. IMHO a teacher has a professional obligation to do his or her job to the best of his/her ability, which includes getting and remaining current with the research and applying it to the classroom.
“Good enough” is the enemy of the best. And teachers who say “the students just aren’t working” are the enemy of language acquisition. [/quote]
‘good enough’ is the Chinese Cha bu Duo way inveighed against by HuShi (or was it the other writer. lol).
Oh you didn’t want X with that? Allergies? As he brushes X to the side of the plate. There you go. Cha bu duo.
I asked for a CL2 SDRAM chip. Oh nobody carries those. This DDR chip is much cheaper. if it doesn’t work you can always come back and exchange it! If you haven’t guessed I hate that about Chinese attitudes or anybody else for that matter.
Thanks for the advise given so far but is I think I will stick to my plan and get some private classes.
Of course I want to learn how to speak, the reading/writing thing is just to make it easier for me (and I would also find it helpfull if I can manage to read some signboards in shops or menues in a restaurant etc.). As said before I am not in a rush, so I don’t mind if it takes longer but I expect that private lessons will be more efficient than a group class.
I do have a simple book for writing characters but the problem is that I can’t check the pronounciation / tones and I am worried I might remember it wrongly and thus it will stick, i.e. if I should learn it later correctly I might always fall back to the wrong pronounciation or tone.
Thus I prefer to learn with a professional teacher who can immediately correct me.
As well I need to make some kind of committment, just learning by myself will not work very well. …
Hmm, did I manage to upset someone? I wonder how my suggestion that discipline counts was twisted and spun into “good enough” and “cha bu duo”. I don’t think I ever suggested that education can be compromised. However, this to me means ensuring the fundamentals, such as a clean classroom conducive to learning. Another fundamental is having the right mindset and discipline. Only then should you start thinking about revisionist text books and experimental teaching methods.
Sorry, but too much talk about special needs and mediocre teachers sounds to me like excuses for lack of discipline. Here’s a concept … learning a language can be fun, but it’s also hard work, even for those who enjoy it and are “good at it”. So don’t victimize yourself by saying “this is hard for me”, you’re no different from the rest of us.
Ok, I’ve strayed far from the original thread, and I want to emphasize that these comments are not directed at any one person. (except maybe the hypothetical Rachel)
Hmm, did I manage to upset someone? … Only then should you start thinking about revisionist text books and experimental teaching methods.
Sorry, but too much talk about special needs and mediocre teachers sounds to me like excuses for lack of discipline. [/quote]
Teachers who refuse to talk about special needs ARE mediocre teachers. Period. Why do something in a half-efficient way when you could do it efficiently? Why say “the students must make up for my lack of effort as a teacher” when, with your effort and the same amount of discipline on the part of the students, everyone could progress much farther??
Believe me, my students acquire languages. There is no lack of discipline or order in my classrooms. But they acquire more rapidly and with less pain because I have taken the time to keep current and think about the concepts and processes underlying language acquisition. This is not equivalent to “revisionist textbooks and experimental teaching methods.”
Why should ANYONE be unable to acquire a language? The human brain is hard-wired to do just that…unless a person is prevented from acquiring by being taught too much minutiae ABOUT the language which has nothing to do with acquiring its use. Perhaps not everyone, beginning from any age, can expect to become native-like, but I firmly believe that EVERYONE is capable of getting to a functional level of oral communication and comprehension with a minimum of pain – surely nothing like the traditional ideas of Chinese teaching.
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If you haven’t guessed I hate that about Chinese attitudes or anybody else for that matter.