Left turn: which green light?

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

In situation pictured below (left turn on junction with traffic light)

  1. What would you do:
    a) turn left (giving a way to the traffic from opposite direction)
    b) wait for green arrow (ignoring green light and the fact there is no traffic from opposite direction)

  2. What one should do according to traffic regulations in Taiwan?

  3. What would you do to the driver who does 1b) and who cut you off
    a moment ago to get to the left lane in front of you? :smiling_imp:

2

I took my (local) license test about three ago and I seem to remember something along the lines of ā€œif there is an arrow, you have to wait for itā€. I might be wrong, but this is the ā€˜ruleā€™ I follow in my daily 40km commute into the Science Park.

3

Wait for the arrowā€¦Iā€™ve been ticketed for not waiting for that arrowā€¦

4

I never took driving lessons in Taiwanā€¦ and I think this situation doesnā€™t exist where I come fromā€¦ :slight_smile:

I thought about it for a while, and I decided the green light is for all traffic. That includes turning left (of course, waiting for traffic from the opposite direction). So I would go. Even if Iā€™d have to decide quickly I think Iā€™d decide that.

Think about it. The green light with the left arrow is dark. Some people canā€™t see that arrow because the contrast is too low. Thereā€™d have to be a RED light with a LEFT ARROW.

So can someone confirm Taiwanease traffic laws for this situation?

5

It is kinda common sense for me, but common sense ainā€™t too common here:

  1. If there is only a green light showing, you can go, including turning left if it is safe and there is no oncoming traffic.
  2. If you werenā€™t meant to turn left when there is a green light, there should be a red arrow.
  3. If the green arrow is showing, you should be able to turn left safely knowing that the oncoming traffic has a red light and will stop.

That seems normal for meā€¦

6

Theres exactly that situ on a turn I often make here in Berkeley. Over here the green means you can proceed with your left turn if its safe but you DONT have the right of way, oncoming traffic does. Oncoming traffic has a redlight if the GREEN ARROW lights up.

But in Taiwan I think that you have to wait for the green arrow if there is one, I could be wrong tho?
So basically if there is a left turn lane and you are on it, you have to wait for the green arrow because the general green light is for cars proceeding straight ahead. In the USA , I believe you can proceed to turn left even on a left turn only lane with just the green as long as you dont endanger the traffic heading your way as they have the right of way.

7

This is a situation that actually is basically a faulty set up, green light means go for all directions, arrows mean go only for the given direction ā€¦ in this case you shouldnā€™t be given a ticket when you turn left because when the arrow light is off you can just guess what it will display when on ā€¦ you got either all arrows (even red sometimes), orange and red or just green, red and orange lights ā€¦ simple and clear international rules ā€¦ at least in Europe, but hey logic in Taiwan doesnā€™t exist ā€¦ :s

8

Thatā€™s always the case ā€¦ you should always give right of way on traffic that goes straight on an intersection unless as said, specified by arrows ā€¦

Oh, BTW ā€¦ even with arrows you should always be careful when turning in Taiwan because most here give a rats arse what light is on or off ā€¦ they just go, orange gravel trucks never stop ā€¦ :loco:

9

Thereā€™s a traffic light similar to that here in Longtan.
Iā€™ve seen countless people wait at the green light for a green arrow. Iā€™ve been stuck behind them so often Iā€™ve given up honking.
Just the other day I even saw a cop car waiting for the green arrow while the light was green and no other vehicles were coming at all.
My woman says you have to wait for the green arrow.
It just doesnā€™t make sense. Maybe thatā€™s how it really is here. :loco:

10

Why didnt you honk at the cop car??? :unamused: :astonished: :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

11

I cross a junction like that every day on my way to work. Basically, to be safe, just do what most of the locals do. In that situation, the locals ALWAYS go, except for when there is a cop standing in the middle of the junction. Then they follow his instructions (and those can vary based on the situation). I am pretty sure many of the cops wouldnā€™t know either, whether you are allowed to go or not.

12

At that intersection you may turn left on the solid green light. You neednā€™t wait for the left turn arrow as there is no sign instructing you to do so. Without a sign it is not clear as to whether or not there is a left turn signal available at all, forget counting blank traffic lights and guessing. Any police officer or traffic department that tries to argue otherwise is stupid in my book. There are plenty of intersections like the one pictured that have no left turn lights, so again signage is the only thing to take note of.
I hate these types of intersections with poor or no instructions.
I also know intersections where there is a straight arrow, left arrow and no right arrow, so technically you wouldnā€™t be able to make a right turn right? Wrong. The right turn is available, but with no instruction.

13

[quote]At that intersection you may turn left on the solid green light. You neednā€™t wait for the left turn arrow as there is no sign instructing you to do so.
[/quote]

Yes, it would be so anywhere around the world. This is specified by Vienna convention.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Con ā€¦ nd_Signals
homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/tr ā€¦ /vl-a.html

The proper way to signal only straight direction is to have arrow straight.
But wellā€¦ this is Taiwan.

I wonder can anyone find this described in local traffic law?

14

Vienna convention:

unece.org/trans/conventn/signalse.pdf

Page:17 Chapter III Article 23

  1. In a three-colour system, the red, amber and green lights may be
    replaced by arrows of the same colour on a black background. When lighted up,
    these arrows have the same significance as the lights, but the prohibition or
    authorization is restricted to the direction or directions indicated by the
    arrow or arrows. Arrows signifying that traffic may or may not proceed
    straight ahead shall point upwards. Black arrows on a red, amber or green
    background may be used. These arrows have the same significance as the
    above-mentioned arrows.
  2. Where a signal of a three-colour system includes one or more additional
    green lights showing one or more arrows, the lighting of such additional arrow
    or arrows shall, no matter what phase the three-colour system may be in at the
    time, mean that traffic may proceed in the direction or directions indicated
    by the arrow or arrows; it shall also mean that, when vehicles are in a lane
    reserved for traffic in the direction indicated by the arrow or the direction
    such traffic is required to take, their drivers must proceed in the direction
    indicated if by stopping they would obstruct the movement of vehicles behind
    them in the same lane, provided always that vehicles in the traffic stream
    they are joining must be allowed to pass and that pedestrians must not be
    endangered. These additional green lights should preferably be placed at the
    same level as the normal green light.
15

[quote=ā€œpbā€][quote]At that intersection you may turn left on the solid green light. You neednā€™t wait for the left turn arrow as there is no sign instructing you to do so.
[/quote]

Yes, it would be so anywhere around the world. This is specified by Vienna convention.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Con ā€¦ nd_Signals
homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/tr ā€¦ /vl-a.html

The proper way to signal only straight direction is to have arrow straight.
But wellā€¦ this is Taiwan.

I wonder can anyone find this described in local traffic law?[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying that pb.

Local traffic law? :laughing:

16

what would i do:

  1. I choose ā€œCā€, make sure there are no police cars, cameras, or oncoming traffic and then turn left. (I have yet to receive a red-light ticket in the mail, although I have received a couple of speeding tickets with pictures of me)

  2. In Taiwan traffic law, RED means stop. Red always means stop. Green, on the other doesnā€™t mean you have the right of way. Many times there is a green arrow when the oncoming traffic also has a green light or arrow. Stop when itā€™s red, proceed with caution, looking all ways, on green. By the way, drunk drivers sometimes cannot see the difference between green and red.

  3. If someone cut me off in the turn lane, I would just let it happen. If it made me angry, anxious, or upset, I would have a miserable life and be constantly screaming foul language at my carā€™s rear-view mirror. Thatā€™s no way to live. Just let it go.

17

In many states in the US, a red arrow is used in combination with a green light to explicitly tell drivers that they are not to turn left when the green light is on.

18

[quote=ā€œsulavacaā€][quote=ā€œpbā€]
Local traffic law? :laughing:[/quote][/quote]

Well, the paper one ā€¦ for reference when arguing with cop. :cop: :rant:

19

[quote=ā€œdouglas@taichungpaws.orgā€]
3. If someone cut me off in the turn lane, I would just let it happen. If it made me angry, anxious, or upset, I would have a miserable life and be constantly screaming foul language at my carā€™s rear-view mirror. Thatā€™s no way to live. Just let it go.[/quote]

Well, ā€œI let it goā€ with a horn for a while and rerouted around the deadweight blocking the lane.
It is kind of silly to stay there at the deserted junction behind some half-educated driver.

Now, Iā€™m just curious if itā€™s only the puny Vienna convention standing for me or do I have some support in local traffic law.
For example 100m away there is another junction with proper arrow based traffic lights.

No sweat anyway, I treat it as a local folklore - something to turn into an anecdote later :slight_smile:

20

I got a 600nt ticket once from a motocop in TAipei for making a U-turn at a place where there was a sign that said No Left Turn. I argued that I didnt make a left turn, I made a U-turn. I guess No Left Turn also means No U turn? Am I wrong or right? Anyway wrong or right I paid the 600nt.