My son was born two weeks ago. We had the English name decided and have it printed on the English birth certificate.
As is common in Taiwan, the Chinese name was not decided until after our son was born. Now that the name has been decided it is time to register it with my wife’s household registration. She is Taiwanese. I’m American. Therefore I’m on her household registration.
While the English name uses my surname, which is what will be registered with AIT and printed on our son’s U.S. passport, we plan to use my wife’s surname for the Chinese name.
Today, my wife tells me that to use the wife’s surname, Taiwan requires that the wife’s family have no sons and that the husband fill out a form giving permission to do this. Also, I was told that if we were to use my surname for Chinese name the child could not get Taiwanese citizenship. I assume that this is because I am not a citizen and don’t have household registration documentation other than a record of our marriage in my wife’s household registration documentation.
Before I go signing any documents I want to make sure that giving permission to use my wife’s surname will not in any way affect my parental rights.
Does anyone know where I might find official information on these matters? What have other folks in a similar situation done?
[quote=“ChouDoufu”]My son was born two weeks ago. We had the English name decided and have it printed on the English birth certificate.
As is common in Taiwan, the Chinese name was not decided until after our son was born. Now that the name has been decided it is time to register it with my wife’s household registration. She is Taiwanese. I’m American. Therefore I’m on her household registration.
While the English name uses my surname, which is what will be registered with AIT and printed on our son’s U.S. passport, we plan to use my wife’s surname for the Chinese name.
Today, my wife tells me that to use the wife’s surname, Taiwan requires that the wife’s family have no sons and that the husband fill out a form giving permission to do this. Also, I was told that if we were to use my surname for Chinese name the child could not get Taiwanese citizenship. I assume that this is because I am not a citizen and don’t have household registration documentation other than a record of our marriage in my wife’s household registration documentation.
Before I go signing any documents I want to make sure that giving permission to use my wife’s surname will not in any way affect my parental rights.
Does anyone know where I might find official information on these matters? What have other folks in a similar situation done?[/quote]
when i was looking into acquiring taiwan citizenship for my daughter the most knowledgeable person i found was at the information desk at the bureau of entry and exit on guangzhou and yenping, near the hoping hospital. my child used my surname and got taiwanese citizenship without incident, while that was 6 years ago i can’t imagine what you say above could be true. using the wife’s surname is not a totally uncommon practice in taiwan, i think the only implications are for ancestor worship but have you asked any lawyers?
As long asyour name is on the birth certificate I don’t see how it could have much effect on not giving you full rights over the boy in case anything unexpected occurred.
My daughter uses my wife’s surname. We were fortunate that we could do so as my wife has no brothers. The story about not being able to get citizenship if using the father’s name is complete nonsense. And as far as I know the use of surname does not affect parental rights.
Was this ever true in the past? I’ve been racking my brains trying to figure out how it could have worked.
Could the foreigner first change his name to be the same as the wife’s, then name the kid based on that? (Or would that be forbidden under surname exogamy?)
Could the child’s surname be taken from a third person, who happens to have the same surname as the wife? (There has to be a way of distinguishing them, otherwise anyone with the same surname as some rich person would get his money.)
More creatively, might one specify that the first two characters are really one compound surname, and the remaining character the given name? But result in a three-character name that is identical to the one originally requested?
Thanks for you comments. I wish I’d thought about all this before. There is no reason I couldn’t have just used the same surname as my wife. It is a very common Chinese surname and the surname I was using was probably pulled out of a hat by a Chinese professor. I could have written anything on the form when adding my self to my wife’s household registration.
Or is this not the issue? Is it that they need permission to put my son on my wife’s house registration rather than mine? Or just to use her surname other than mine? Where both parents are Taiwanese, is the birth recorded on both parent’s household registrations? Do household registrations “merge” when a couple is married? I’ve read a number of general articles on the household registration system and its history in Taiwan, but I really don’t understand the mechanics.
I do know that it is important for my son to get on one, so that he can have full land owning, inheritance, and other rights. I assume that if DON’T allow him to have my wife’s surname, he will not be on ANY household registration. This might be what my wife meant. Not that he wouldn’t be a citizen, but he wouldn’t have household registration, or do all citizens have household registrations?
What will the government do where the father is a non-citizen and the wife is, but the father will not permit giving the child the wife’s surname or he will, but the wife has a brother?
I’m in Taichung. My experiences to date with city bureaucrats have not impressed me with their understanding of laws and regulations regarding foreigners. It seems I should commute to Taipei everytime I have a question. I search the web to see of the bureau of entry and exit in Taipei has a website that lists a phone number.
I don’t know where this all came from, but it’s complete nonsense that a child can’t get household registration without taking the mother’s surname. It used to be the case that nationality was only inherited through the father which meant that a child of a foreign father of an ROC mother would not have ROC nationality, but it’s been several years since that was changed and nationality can be inherited from either parent. In those cases it was sometimes possible to claim that the father was unknown in which case the child could inherit nationality through the mother.
In most cases the child born to an ROC mother and a foreign father will have to use the father’s surname, since a family with only girls is not as common, given the importance of male heirs in local culture. There has been a lot of heartache caused by this because even the most carefully chosen Chinese name is at best seen as ‘not real’ by the local side of the family and at worst is some dumb ass name made up at the spur of the moment. However, there has never an issue with not being able to get household registration or citizenship because of the naming issue.
No, not all citizens have household registration. Those without registration are known as non-resident nationals, and this is somewhat common for ‘overseas Chinese’ who have not lived in Taiwan recently, or who were born to ROC parents overseas and never registered. Getting them residency is a fairly complex task (they are treated just slightly better than the rest of us foreigners), and after they’ve had residency a while they can then get into the household registration. However, this is not an issue for children born to citizens with household registration. In that case it’s just a simple matter of registering the birth.
Foreigners don’t have household registration.
Correct. Using the mother’s surname is only possible if the she has no brothers and the father of the child consents.
Yes, a married couple will usually be in the same household registration. Really a household registration is an official registry of who lives at a particular address. On ‘my’ household registration, my wife, daughter, and mother-in-law are registered. I am listed in my wife’s record as spouse, and the comments section contains more information about me. I am also listed as father in my daughter’s record. However there is not separate record for me as I am not a citizen.
You assume wrong.
The child will be forced to have whatever stupid name his/her father came up with.
It’s been theorized here that the foreigner can change his Chinese name prior to the child being registered but I’m not aware of anyone trying that. Others have deliberately chosen a more suitable surname prior to their spouse registering the marriage which is a lot easier.
A foreigner can change his Chinese name fairly easily by making an application for change of information at the foreign affairs police. The agent will make a notation on the back of the ARC of your new Chinese name. This is a known procedure that others have already done successfully. You should then be able to apply to change your spouse’s household registry to reflect your new Chinese name, however I’m not aware of anyone who has actually done this.
The child will be forced to have whatever stupid name his/her father came up with.
.[/quote]
speak for yourself i could never quite figure this out, if joe wang goes to the us people won’t say how stupid wang looks in english or suggest it is not worthy of use by his children.
The child will be forced to have whatever stupid name his/her father came up with.
.[/quote]
speak for yourself i could never quite figure this out, if joe wang goes to the us people won’t say how stupid wang looks in english or suggest it is not worthy of use by his children.[/quote]
Well, in your example “Wang” is his real name. Just a transliteration. But if he was given the last name “Jones” or “Smith” by his English teacher, I could see how he and his wife would not want to use that name for their kid. Then again, he can just use the transliteration of his Chinese name in English legal docs.
The problem for most foreigners in Taiwan is that there is no easy way to port their names to Chinese characters. If a foreigner had a five-character surname, would they even accept that? It would be so difficult to deal with a name like that in Chinese that most foreigners just randomly choose a common Chinese surname, perhaps one with a sound similar to the first syllable of their surname.
If I would have known better, I would have had an expert select a Chinese name for me using my birth date and all the other factors that go into selecting a given name, yet also choose a surname for me.
[quote]It’s been theorized here that the foreigner can change his Chinese name prior to the child being registered but I’m not aware of anyone trying that.[/quote]I changed mine. I added my wife’s surname on to my previous 2 character name to make a 3 character one. It wasn’t a major change so it wasn’t a problem. If you tell them your reasons and only make a minor change, they might allow it. Ask at your household registration office.
i’d like to ask some questions along the same vein…
i’m taiwanese but went to the states when i was 5. i do have an id card (身分證).
i am not sure if i’m on my dad’s household registration, but i’m pretty sure i am.
if i get married and my wife wants the child to have her surname, will it be possible?
as the husband i’m consenting, and she doesnt have any brothers.
will we run into some problem like this?
what about my rights as a parent?
how will this affect the childs name in the states?
would it be better to do this in the states and then come back here?
[quote=“pdk902”]i’d like to ask some questions along the same vein…
i’m Taiwanese but went to the states when i was 5. i do have an id card (身分證).
i am not sure if i’m on my dad’s household registration, but i’m pretty sure i am.
if i get married and my wife wants the child to have her surname, will it be possible?
as the husband i’m consenting, and she doesnt have any brothers.
will we run into some problem like this?
what about my rights as a parent?
how will this affect the childs name in the states?
would it be better to do this in the states and then come back here?
thanks all.[/quote]
I can’t see how you child’s name on the household registration will affect the child’s legal name in the USA. For me, I have two versions of the birth certificate from the birthing center in Taiwan: one in Chinese and one in English. The English has the child’s English name. The Chinese has no name for the child at all as the name is usually chosen after birth. AIT only cares about the birth certificate for registering him and getting his passport. Once he has his official papers proving US citizenship, why would the US ever care about what is on my wife’s household registration?
My understanding is that simply giving your child a different surname does not affect your rights as a parent, although I don’t have an official source stating that yet.
I would think that changing your name in the US would be more trouble than its worth, not to mention the modest but unnecessary expense. It depends on your state. In my case, I needed to file papers that needed the lieutenant governor’s signature. Not really as big of a deal as is seems, but I wouldn’t bother with it if you don’t have to. Usually it is only a matter of filing some notarized paperwork with total fees being under $200.
If you like your son’s official name in the USA, just leave it. The consent form to allow you son to take on your wife’s surname in Taiwan is a simple one page form with no additional expense attached.
[quote=“pdk902”]i’m Taiwanese … if i get married and my wife wants the child to have her surname, will it be possible?
as the husband i’m consenting, and she doesnt have any brothers.[/quote]
The rules on surnames is not specific to foreigners. If you qualify and consent the mother’s surname may be used.
There is no requirement that someone’s Chinese name and English name be the same. My daughter uses my surname in her English name and my wife’s surname in her Chinese name, and the given names are also completely different. The US does not have stringent rules on the naming of a child, and will go by whatever you use on the English version of the birth certificate.
As far as I’m aware this would make no difference.
I thought I would share my recent experience of this:
When my son was born I obtained both English and Chinese birth certificates. There was an English name and nationalty on the English certificate (using my (husbands) family name. There was a Chinese name, completely different, on the Chinese birth certificate.
I registered a Chinese name for myself using the same Family name as my wife for the first character and then two more characters which was a transliteration of my first english name (Nick). 尼克. This was an easy process at the household registration office that took about 20 minutes. This is an also known as rather than a name change.
Then I registered my son’s birth with the household registration office as normal, having him added to my wife’s family household registration document. They automatically check my family name and his (now the same) and Bob’s your uncle, done deal.
The interesting things in this process for me were as follows:
The UK government didn’t care if he had two different names or not as only the English one was going on his British passport. (Sandy at the BTCO is very helpful)
The local government allowed me to add his full english name (2 names plus my english family name) to his Taiwanese passport. This was great as it meant no awkward questions about different names when travelling.
If you are British you DON’T need to pay out for a British birth certificate. Just apply for the passport as normal.
i could never quite figure this out, if joe wang goes to the us people won’t say how stupid wang looks in english or suggest it is not worthy of use by his children.